And you also know the Indian government is sitting there watching this with both thoughts of "Will this spread to us?" and "How can we exploit this to our advantage".
I wasn't gonna touch that one but since you went there I highly agree.
I'm betting that this will spur yet another round of "anti terrorist" legislation to take away more of our rights and fund more military actions around the globe.
You know what really scares me? I'll bet there are dozens of illegal programs in place now that we haven't even found out about yet, and won't until he leaves office. It's like waiting for the other 300 pound boot to drop.
Assuming he leaves office, of course. I can't help but wonder if The Occupant isn't watching the whole Pakistan mess over the last several months and complaining that Musharraf stole his playbook.
You know, he really did such a good job when he was mayor of NYC that I always thought he would make a great president. (Not to defend everything he did, but overall.) But since he left office he has become nothing more than Chimpy's little padawan.
I agree that the current government of Pakistan is smart enough to know that using "the bomb" would be very bad (to say the least) for Pakistan, a different government might not understand that, or, even worse, might not care.
I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I was surprised. When Bhutto came back to Pakistan she knew she was walking into a death trap. I'm not sure whether to call it "brave" or "foolish" on her part.
Many years earlier I read an interview with her in a news magazine. She was just finishing up her studies in England and talking about what the future had in store for her. She mentioned her life-plan was to "go back to Pakistan" to follow in her father's footsteps and lead her country, and that it was "expected" of her to do so. She also mentioned in that interview, when she was in her early 20s, how she knew it was likely she'd be assasinated, and walked into the situation knowing this was "part of what goes along with the job."
Every time I saw some women's magazine interviewing or talking about "great female leaders," I always wondered why they happily interviewed "first ladies" whose "leadership" solely involved being married to a leader, yet never touched folks like Bhutto (or Corazon Aquino), who got the right education and knowingly threw herself into harm's way.
I remember that. She gave later interviews just like that, too. She stayed alive all that time, which is amazing. I suspect she had some damn fine guards among those who were killed with her.
"Bhutto, 54, was being driven from the rally in her bulletproof vehicle when she asked that the rooftop hatch be opened so she could bid supporters farewell, according to several aides, including one who was sitting next to her...As she leaned her head through the hatch, between three and five gunshots rang out..."
(Emphases mine, of course)
I know she was expecting to be assassinated eventually. It was inevitable. But that's just f-ing suicidal. Jeezus, if you believe enough in a cause to die for it, and you're the leader, you owe it to yourself and your comrades to do everything in your power to postpone the inevitable.
You have to be a religious figure to be a martyr, specifically. I understand there is a metaphoric vernacular meaning, but I am really not cool with using the term in this context, because the person who killed her and then blew himself up probably thought of himself the same way, and does the Middle East really need more random sectarianism?
Um... I beg to differ. Originally, a martyr was someone who would rather die than renounce their religion. However, it hasn't had only that meaning for quite some time now. Now the term means someone who has died (or is willing to die) for any cause they believe in. Or, it can even mean generically to suffer from something.
At the same time, Cheney notwithstanding, it's difficult at best to exercise authority while hiding in a bunker the whole time. Bhutto wasn't spending her entire time in Pakistan behind armor glass, nor should she have. Most of her time there was spent pretty much in the open.
True enough. As pretty much everyone, including Bhutto herself has said, this was pretty much inevitable. The first assassination attempt occurred moments after she left Jinnah International Airport, having just arrived in Pakistan (the suicide bomber had good explosives but bad timing).
I agree that it doesn't bode well. You can be assured that the current presidential nominees will all have their two cents to chime in about it. We'll probably hear the same thing "terrible tragedy, could have been avoided, etc." To be sure this will cause instability in and already unstable area of the world.
The great tragedy is that she knew that there were people who wanted to kill her. You have to think that, at least on some level, she had to have known that lowering the window and leaning out was flirting with death a bit more closely than was wise. Maybe she wanted to show that she couldn't be intimidated, at this point all we can do is speculate and hope for the best.
If I believed in curses, I'd swear that section of the world is suffering from one big curse. Of all the religions that are easily adapted to support oppression and tyranny, Islam is at the top of my list. Second is Hinduism due to its caste system. Guess where those religions meet.
Stopping terrorism doesn't primarily involve violence, it's involves wisdom and reason. The trick is getting those who are wise and reasonable in power and keeping them alive. Think about it, how often has violence stopped religious violence. Now look at Christianity before and after the Age of Reason.
According to Wolf Blitzer (yeah yeah), here is an e-mail written by Bhutto back in October that could only be released in her death.
"Nothing will, God Willing, happen. Just wanted u to know if it does in addition to the names in my letter to Musharaf of Oct 16nth, I wld hold Musharaf [responsible. I have been made to feel insecure by his minions, and there is no way what is happening in terms of stopping me from taking private cars or using tinted windows or giving jammers or four police mobiles to cover all sides cld happen without him."
My understanding of the situation in Pakistan (this decade, not just today) is based on being a regular listener to NPR and BBC newscasts and skimming the international print headlines regularly. My understanding may not really reflect reality, but my understanding says that unless Musharraf is both stupider and more crazy thank Pinky, he can't possibly be behind this. The only people who can possibly advance their political goals are the Islamist crazies. Musharraf's only sane hope of staying in power was to ally with Bhutto, and our government's only sane hope of continuing to have a Pakistani lapdog is legitimizing and shoring up Musharraf.
Even if Musharraf's agents didn't actually kill her, if Bhutto's posthumous allegations aren't a total fabrication, they totally undermine his position as a leader. I'll be shocked if he's still around in another year, and unfortunately, I think the best case scenario is that the army will get tired of him and push him aside in another military coup. The likely scenario is several years of lurching around hunting for a strong, popular leader the country will line up behind. The too-likely nightmare is open civil war, and the worst case is the Islamists take over full control.
Word, sadly. I suspect they'll make the Taliban look like a bunch of liberals, most likely. The destabilization will push more people toward the extremists in fear of more intervention by us, too.
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And you also know the Indian government is sitting there watching this with both thoughts of "Will this spread to us?" and "How can we exploit this to our advantage".
Does Not Bode Well, indeed.
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I'm betting that this will spur yet another round of "anti terrorist" legislation to take away more of our rights and fund more military actions around the globe.
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We are cursed with the most emboldenable terrorists in history. Be afraid. Pee your pants. Vote Republican.
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Personally though I think you're underestimating the weight of the boot. :-(
There has never been a better time than now for the need of a transparent government.
(Edited for spelling/grammar correction.)
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This could be very very bad. :-(
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Ben
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"Taliban or Musharrif?"
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Many years earlier I read an interview with her in a news magazine. She was just finishing up her studies in England and talking about what the future had in store for her. She mentioned her life-plan was to "go back to Pakistan" to follow in her father's footsteps and lead her country, and that it was "expected" of her to do so. She also mentioned in that interview, when she was in her early 20s, how she knew it was likely she'd be assasinated, and walked into the situation knowing this was "part of what goes along with the job."
Every time I saw some women's magazine interviewing or talking about "great female leaders," I always wondered why they happily interviewed "first ladies" whose "leadership" solely involved being married to a leader, yet never touched folks like Bhutto (or Corazon Aquino), who got the right education and knowingly threw herself into harm's way.
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She stayed alive all that time, which is amazing.
I suspect she had some damn fine guards among those who were killed with her.
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(Emphases mine, of course)
I know she was expecting to be assassinated eventually. It was inevitable. But that's just f-ing suicidal. Jeezus, if you believe enough in a cause to die for it, and you're the leader, you owe it to yourself and your comrades to do everything in your power to postpone the inevitable.
Dammit dammit dammit.
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You have to be a religious figure to be a martyr, specifically. I understand there is a metaphoric vernacular meaning, but I am really not cool with using the term in this context, because the person who killed her and then blew himself up probably thought of himself the same way, and does the Middle East really need more random sectarianism?
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The meaning is neither metaphoric nor vernacular.
I believe the original assessment is correct.
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I don't think I understand the objection.
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The great tragedy is that she knew that there were people who wanted to kill her. You have to think that, at least on some level, she had to have known that lowering the window and leaning out was flirting with death a bit more closely than was wise. Maybe she wanted to show that she couldn't be intimidated, at this point all we can do is speculate and hope for the best.
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Stopping terrorism doesn't primarily involve violence, it's involves wisdom and reason. The trick is getting those who are wise and reasonable in power and keeping them alive. Think about it, how often has violence stopped religious violence. Now look at Christianity before and after the Age of Reason.
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"Nothing will, God Willing, happen. Just wanted u to know if it does in addition to the names in my letter to Musharaf of Oct 16nth, I wld hold Musharaf [responsible. I have been made to feel insecure by his minions, and there is no way what is happening in terms of stopping me from taking private cars or using tinted windows or giving jammers or four police mobiles to cover all sides cld happen without him."
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Even if Musharraf's agents didn't actually kill her, if Bhutto's posthumous allegations aren't a total fabrication, they totally undermine his position as a leader. I'll be shocked if he's still around in another year, and unfortunately, I think the best case scenario is that the army will get tired of him and push him aside in another military coup. The likely scenario is several years of lurching around hunting for a strong, popular leader the country will line up behind. The too-likely nightmare is open civil war, and the worst case is the Islamists take over full control.
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