Stem Cell Research On Hold, Again

[filkertom]

I swear, this is one of the biggest shouldn't-be-a-controversies in an entire era of same. To get a fierce personal perspective on it, check out my fellow Atriot Diane C's take.

I simply do not get the sanctity of a few cells -- cells! -- that were going to be thrown out anyway.

Comments

[umbran.livejournal.com]

I don't agree with it, but I understand the concept: A few cells can have a soul. That they were going to be thrown out does not mean you get to profit from their loss.

Now, if they'd apply the same logic to armed conflicts, they might have a case.

[mimiheart.livejournal.com]

[right-wing nutjob]Don't you understand the sanctity of life? Those cells deserve to be flushed down the toilet in dignity! How dare you suggest otherwise! To hell with all those living, breathing, born, people in the world that could possibly benefit from this. They're too big to be flushed with dignity.[/right-wing nutjob]

I have no idea if my son's heart problems could be helped with embryonic stem cell research. How DARE someone say we shouldn't even try.

[qnofhrt.livejournal.com]

It's really not about those few cells, it's about control.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

The activist judge who did this is a Catholic, and therefore automatically biased in all issues involving embryos. Why was he allowed to sit in on this case?

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Because "white people, males and Protestants ["Protestants" not applicable here, but hold the thought] never have to worry about extravagant displays of vicarious contrition." Or recusal, apparently. Or maybe it's just that those sorts are never activist, except when they rule in favor of minorities, the Constitution as written, and civil rights.

[maiac.livejournal.com]

"I simply do not get the sanctity of a few cells -- cells! -- that were going to be thrown out anyway."

The obsession with embryos is an example of reductio ad absurdum. Also of Winston Churchill's definition of "fanatic" as "One who redoubles his effort after he has forgotten his aim."

The fetusphiles get to feel all righteous about protecting innocent life without actually, y'know, going to any effort to provide for actual living breathing children.

[lizziecrowe.livejournal.com]

And when the children they fight for turn out to be gay, do they continue to fight for their rights? Of course not.

The entire argument is ridiculous. the body throws away cells every single day. Does that make every human being a murderer, right down to the precious, papal pedophile-defending patron? Of course not! it's about principles! it's about willfulness! It s about then being right and everyone else being damned1 *tiniest violin in existence playing 'Waltzing Matilda'...*

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

*begins singing 'Every Sperm is Sacred'*

That logic, taken not to an extreme, but only consistantly

[capplor.livejournal.com]

would demoloish the highly profitable fertility industry. Unless the parents plan to use each & every in vitro embryo, (like the OctoMom) then they're throwing out potential souls.

[redneckgaijin.livejournal.com]

As I read it, the injunction was based on the following reasoning:

(1) Congress passed a law that says you can't do that.

(2) President makes a ruling that says what's being done isn't that.

(3) Arguments presented by plaintiff make it probable that yes, what's being done IS that.

(4) Presidents can't override Congress just on their say-so.

(5) The law Congress made is fully constitutional.

(6) So quit it.

Which, in the abstract, I agree with. I don't want presidents to be able to blot out laws just with a wave of the magic wand Executive Order.

And if Obama really wants stem cell research to be federally funded, maybe he should lean on Congress... oh, wait, he doesn't know how to lean on Congress. Oh well.

Re: That logic, taken not to an extreme, but only consistantly

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Yes. I have spoken to some folks who are opposed to the modern fertility industry on those grounds. I don't agree with them, but at least they aren't hypocritical about it.

The "highly profitable" isn't the telling point - stem cell research feeds pharmaceutical R&D, and there's big money there.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

They want to hurt those despicable people who have sex while female by forcing them to have unwanted babies. The ostensible excuse for this is that abortions (and a lot of birth control) are murder because that conceptus was a "baby" from the moment of fusion, never mind that it's a mindless ball of cells.

If they don't take up arms to defend that mindless ball of cells when it's in a petri dish, that weakens their case, so they defend the ball of cells in the petri dish too. A rare moment of consistency on their part, but it is consistent.

That it also hurts science is simply a happy side effect.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

You know... I might have less issue with this sort of idiocy if these same people were not also anti welfare generally. Sure, protect the Babiez before they are born, but throw them out with the bathwater after...

God help the people who lose their decent jobs and are left helpless from the middle class...

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

I've got it. If this form of life is so scared, it only stands to reason that we make an addendum to this proposition which states any woman who discards a fertilized egg during menstruation be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

After all, consistency is key, right?

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

I'll take right-to-lifers seriously as soon as I can declare an embryo as a dependent on my tax return!

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

Maybe they'll let us use "Anchor Embryos"!

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/23/immigration-rhode-island/

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Martin Luther did believe that every woman is guilty of murdering every babe she could have had if she was pregnant all the time. What's more he didn't care if a woman died it labor because she was doing her duty and that it wasn't a big loss.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Thank you. That's easily the best Swiftian satire I've read all year.

[smparadox.livejournal.com]

Of course, there are cells and cell fragments discarded in fecal waste, so the same logic extended a bit further should hold that valuable resource just as sacred - and after all, it IS just as likely to have a soul...

[umbran.livejournal.com]

There's loads of differences between those shed cells and an embryo (embryos develop into infants, given the proper environment, while those shed cells won't), and unless you're a slack-jawed yokel you know that. Since the operate different biologically, there's no particular reason to think they're the same spiritually - and again, I'm pretty sure you know that.

So, really, all you've done is demonstrate that folks on either side of the aisle can use poor reasoning in discussion, and both sides tend to engage in dismissive jabs rather than actual discourse. I suppose some could use that reminder, so thank you for that, at least.

[tandw.livejournal.com]

Fred Clark is (or should be) a national treasure.

[smparadox.livejournal.com]

You're welcome - it was my intent. That, and to highlight how unexamined assumptions color every opinion by assuming nonstandard assumptions.