Okay, I Made The Bad Offensive Nasty Link Go Away, Already

[filkertom]

The last thread I had here has been deleted, because all the comments found the attitude expressed there... how shall I categorize it? Unhelpful.

If it'll make you guys feel better, I won't post political links here anymore, okay? Because right now I'm so thrilled with the political and social direction our country is taking, I can't express myself.

Sorry. I've had a long week of hurt losers and sore winners.

Comments

[jss]

Well, it is your LJ. Post what you like.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Disagreement with one post doesn't mean disagreement with everything, though, Tom.

[kiarrh.livejournal.com]

... I won't post political links here anymore, okay?

That certainly wasn't my intent with my comment.

I'm just as disappointed as you are, Tom. Perhaps moreso, because I voted blue, and Florida turned red anyway. But I've spent my weekend patching up friendships driven onto the rocks because of this election. I think we're all pretty beat up over this thing.

Post what you will. It's your journal. And I'll defend to the death your right to say what you will in it.

[autographedcat.livejournal.com]

As one of the people who expressed a negative opinion, let me start by saying that a) I love you like a brother, and b) I would never suggest you not post whatever is on your mind in your LJ.

I think you know how I feel about the recent election. But as a person born and raised in North Carolina and living in Georgia for the last 15 years...there's good folks down here. Some of 'em are even republicans.

Yes, there are also a lot of homophobic hillbillies and knee-jerk reactionaries and other assorted idiots. And there's a whole bunch of people who just haven't examined things that closely, and haven't been made to see what an awful sitation it is. And there's a whole bunch of people putting up a good fight and trying to spread the word in the wilderness. Painting the whole region with a broad brush isn't going to advance the causes we want to advance.

I'm *this* close to just tuning out any news above local, saying "to hell with everything", and just going abotu living my life and pretending that it's not happening, because I'm weary to my soul of it. I can't even express how weary I am.

I wish I had something postive and affirming and It'll-all-be-better to put here at the end of this, but I don't. I'm just tired. I'm sorry. :( *hug*

[madmanotl.livejournal.com]

Post what you want....If someone doesn't like what you write, that person can either reply or stop reading.

[partiallyclips.livejournal.com]

Might be healthy to take a break from the political posts for a while, actually. As for me, I'm done talking about it. If the subject of the election comes up, I'm going to say, "Hey you know that guy who blew his head off at Ground Zero? What he said."

[chaosdancer.livejournal.com]

Oh, please keep posting political items! I hear a lot around and about, but you tend to hear the really good stuff first, plus you've posted things I haven't seen anywhere else, and I can then pass it on to my friends, etc. I'm grateful to have found you on LJ for just these reasons.

[poltr1]

What they said. If people don't like what you post on your LJ, they can skip 'em.

I too am foregoing the political posts for a while, because I think I've said all I needed to say, and it's time to begin to try to heal the rift between Us and Them.

[beki.livejournal.com]

It's your journal. Post what you will. If others dont like it, they can get their knickers out of knots by crabbing about it in their own journals. I read many of your posts, I just dont reply much as I dont care to do a me too post. No one says I have to agree with everything everyone posts in their journals. I am sure they get tired of the whining in mine :) I am just not that exciting :) At least your journal is informative and entertaining.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

Tom, sorry you're upset...I've been accused of "such anger and hate" that one of my friends insists on agreeing to disagree.

Damn. People can't stand the heat.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

I didn't see the particular post in question.

In general, I find some of the things you link to and say a little extreme, but even if I disagree with a particular thing you post I wouldn't want you to not post it. I read your journal because it's interesting, not because it only says things I totally agree with. Even if you manage to say something that genuinely offends me, I still want to keep talking to you.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

I don't get it...but I didn't see what people were saying about it.

I've criticized some viewpoints youve posted about. This wasn't one of them.

Even when I've criticized something you've linked to, I've criticized it in the context of the pov expressed in the link.

I think the guy used the F-word a bit too many times for my taste in what he said, but what he said had a good bit of logic to it. I was quite taken by the fact that for all of the family values and lower-taxes preaching, it was red states had the highest divorce rates and had the most positive cashflow as the result of "big government" (while the states with the biggest negative differential were all blue ones).

I look at it this way:

The Redskins streak of predicting who wins held up. They lost to Green Bay, which means the incumbent party lost. The fact the Republicans won only proves they didn't win the last time :-)

[moose]

Um, yeah. What doofus said.

Please don't stop

[nezmaster.livejournal.com]

You might glimpse at my journal and see a big monstorous rant about feeling completely defeated. I was glad you posted what you did, and felt slightly less alone. I liked your post, and please don't stop posting politics just becaues a few people are overwhelmed by it. BUt you know, as they said above, don't listen to me, just post what you want.

[armb.livejournal.com]

My initial reaction to the election was "How can so many Americans be so stupid? Should we stand around laughing at them, weep, or both?"
I can see the attraction of the United Blue States thing, but the problem isn't that half the states are full of the gullible, the bigoted, and the uninformed, it's that all the states are more-or-less half full of them. And it's important to concentrate on the uninformed, because telling people they are gullible bigots won't change the way they vote next time.
(It's at least remotely possible that voting irregularities swung this election for Bush. It's quite likely that being an incumbent through cheating last time did. But a lot of Americans really did vote for him.)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

You guys are great. Thank you one and all.

Okay, here's the thing. Or maybe the intro to the thing. (I suspect that, later today or tomorrow, I'm gonna have one hell of a Snarling boiling up. Don't worry, I'll give plenty of warning, and an LJ cut.)

The link which I put up last night -- and, if you didn't catch it, and would really like to see what set everybody off, here it is (http://www.fuckthesouth.com) -- is indeed stereotyped, not at all work-safe, and possibly bigoted as hell. It also captured an aspect of what is in my head. Hardly the whole picture, absolutely not the whole picture or even close to it. But a certain, sometimes quite strong part of it.

(Actually, that and this whole discussion about it, as well as this Bob Herbert column in today's New York Times (http://tinyurl.com/5hmht) and this adorable little tract in Friday's Los Angeles Times (http://tinyurl.com/6bo2f), have helped me to focus my attitudes for the above mentioned Snarling To Be Named Later.)

Unlike a lot of people getting paid a lot more money than I ever will for expressing their opinions, I don't claim to be right all the time, or even most of the time. Everything I write in here has got an implied, "Here's what I think; your mileage may vary" in front of it. But I try really hard to get the facts right, and to base my opinions on the facts. And the rant at the first link above resonated with me because, for all its faults, there is a hunk of truth in it.

Everything else, I'll save for the Snarling. Probably Wednesday -- I have to send out CDs today. :)

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I saw the earlier post, but, being at work, didn't have time to comment on it. It was, um, not to my taste. Or maybe too much so. Somewhere, recently, I saw a comparison of the 2204 Electoral College map and one depicting the same continental US during Reconstruction. It was astonishing and scary how strong the parallels were between states that voted Republican and those areas which were slave states or territories. I'll try to track it down when I get home; you may want it for your Snarling.

Don't stop posting political stuff, please. It's good to know there are folks out there who care.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

Thank you Tom.

I understand passionate, and I very seldom say anything in your political posts. But I honestly didn't see that link doing any good at all.

[mg4h.livejournal.com]

*snerk*

That's a great link. Over-the-top, silly, crazy - possibly true, possibly not. I'd have to check the facts, but even if it isn't - it's comedy gold. It's offensive as anything as well, but... hehehe.

Thanks for sharing. Really. I needed that.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

OK, the quality of writing there is greatly diminished by the excessive use of bad language, and that also makes it more like to upset people rather than make people think, but if you can look past the bad words and the hyperbole, it's making some very good points. It's well worth posting, although heavy disclaimers for the easily offended are certainly in order.

[aylinn.livejournal.com]

as another person who commented on that thread...

I wasn't DISagreeing at all. just pointing out a set of historical facts that needs to be taken into account along with the opinion.

Admittedly, I only read the rant and did NOT follow its internal links. he may have already done so.

again, I didn't see anything wrong with the opinion.

[desfontaines.livejournal.com]

I thought it was an interesting take on things, mostly ignoring the swearing. I checked some of the internal links, too, and they seemed to back up the writer's claims rather well. I had never realized such connections, so I was glad that you posted it!

[arensb.livejournal.com]

I, for one, think that a good rant can be a pleasure to read. When they're boiling mad, people often reach heights of creativity unavailable to the serene mind. I found that link entertaining.

So the lesson to learn isn't "don't post political items", but "when posting offensive stuff, make sure to add a big-ol' disclaimer."

[arensb.livejournal.com]

In case you're going to be following up on this topic, you might be interested in http://www.teenpregnancy.org/ . They have per-state statistics on teen pregnancies, births to teenage mothers, etc.

See
http://www.teenpregnancy.org/america/statisticsDisplay.asp?ID=3&sID=18 (teen pregnancy rate)
http://www.teenpregnancy.org/america/statisticsDisplay.asp?ID=4&sID=44 (teen birth rate)
http://www.teenpregnancy.org/america/statisticsDisplay.asp?ID=4&sID=37&sort=rank#table (births to wed/unwed teens)
While it's not as simple as "red state/blue state", the south (and the Bible Belt in particular) has nothing to brag about.

A DIsclaimer For The Future, To Be Repeated Later

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Interesting phenomenon I've picked up here. One of which I will be discussing at length later this week. But I just wanted to point this out right now, as it keeps coming up. Because, you see, I am going to continue doing political links. And oddly cultural links. And probably some pretty language-offensive links. And my own language isn't exactly cleared for the Disney Channel.

But I'm gonna make my attitude on this one point crystal clear.

The people in power have, among many other things:

• stolen at least one and possibly two presidential elections
• lied to get us behind a war we can't get out of
• lied to the United Nations to get us into that war
• outed a CIA operative to spite her husband, an administration critic
• lied about torture
• rewrote the definition of torture to suit our purposes
• offended our allies
• broken treaties that WE negotiated to already favor us
• given monstrous tax breaks to corporations and the wealthy under false pretenses
• slashed deep holes in the Bill of Rights
• upset the balance of power
• started butchering the environment
• lost a million jobs
• replaced two million decent-paying jobs with low-paying service jobs
• cut services that everyone depends on so drastically that it's felt through the state and local levels where those officials get the heat for having to raise taxes
• put through stupid education standards and then not even funded those
• cut funding from aid programs in other countries because they didn't follow the dictates of OUR religious right-wing
• held photo-ops praising a place or a program and then later cut the funds for that specific place or program, time and again
• promoted specific bigotry against gays and lesbians and minority voters
• played the fear card whenever anything wasn't going their way
• impugned the patriotism of anyone who didn't agree with them.

If you can't wrap yourself around the fact that offensive language is the least of our fuckin' worries, well, then, you'd probably be better off at another LJ.

Peace and love to all. No, really.

Re: A DIsclaimer For The Future, To Be Repeated Later

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Heh. And, if all that wasn't enough, you really don't want to read Steve Gilliard (http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2004/11/they-voted-for-this-mess.html), who says a lot of the things I'm thinking, again not in necessarily the most pleasant terms.

[ericcoleman]

Post what you want.

If someone disagrees, well, they have every right to not read it.

[arensb.livejournal.com]

Good point. I don't have any supporting evidence handy, but it does seem as though the "informed" tended to support Kerry. And even if they didn't, an informed electorate is obviously in the country's best interest.

The problem is, how do you educate large numbers of people? I didn't notice http://www.factcheck.org/ making that much of an impact.

I suspect that the best way to produce an informed electorate is to improve schools, which would have a bunch of good side effects. But that's a long-term, potentially expensive and difficult thing to achieve.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I know, dear. It's just... well, I'm gonna have a Snarling soon. And, if the gods are kind, it'll purge enough of the poison that I can function properly. (It is possible. Reviewing Ron Howard's The Grinch on my page a few years ago allowed me to let go of the hate that boiled in my heart over that film.)

Re: A DIsclaimer For The Future, To Be Repeated Later

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

Yep. You don't wanna read it. But you do.

Re: A DIsclaimer For The Future, To Be Repeated Later

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Slight correction. Steve's blog, but the comments are by someone with the handle "mg_65".

Re: A DIsclaimer For The Future, To Be Repeated Later

[ororo.livejournal.com]

Peace and love to all. No, really.

Back atcha. I'm glad you're going to keep posting the links and the rants. It's your space, you choose what you want to share. No one's forcing us to read it.

Re: A DIsclaimer

[dubheach.livejournal.com]

He makes a lot of sense. My sister voted for Bush because her pastor told her to also.

Why not just send our beloved religious leaders into the White House every four years and wait for the white smoke up the chimney to announce our new president?

[mrlogic.livejournal.com]

You have the 2204 Electoral College map?

Please, please tell me that two hundred years from now, things are looking better.

[james-rayner.livejournal.com]

I love you guys.

Especially you Tom, ya big lug. You have the kohones to say what I wont most of the time - mostly because I'm too polite to say it. Although I have been pressured as of late to tell a few folks I find tres insulting to "@#!$ Off." To paraphrase our deer Veep.

[skipjim.livejournal.com]

Oh jeeze I spend a few days away and I miss a good fight? Sheesh when are we going to get implantable computers already???

Tom: Post what you want. If someone has a problem with that how many tens of thousands of journals are there on this site? If he doesn't like it, who cares? Besides you find better links than I do *lol*.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

*snerk* No, sorry, it was a tyop.

I should be so lucky to see 200 years hence.

Or, considering, maybe not.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Okay. Found it. Here is a post at Washington Monthly that includes the map of the continental US and territories in 1860 (post Dred Scott). It matches way too well with the red states -- forgetting for the moment about purpleness or other such things -- on the 2004 Electoral College map. Except Ohio (not that I'm willing to claim the vote there was stolen -- but I bet the final margin is nowhere close to 135K votes).

Have fun, and thanks for the link back to Steve Gilliard. (I read him; had not gotten there this weekend yet.)

Just visiting, but....

[(Anonymous)]

After being a bit disappointed in some folks I consider friends,
I decided to REALLY hurt myself, and visit Tom's page. I expected
the fire and brimstone to singe off my eyebrows.

Surprisingly, my eyebrows are fine, though I detect that at
least some links went where I expected. I was surprised that Tom
is admitting that the Democrats still retain a lot of power,
and are responsible for all that stuff. There was a lot of evidence
to that effect, but noone has ever admitted it.

Still, the hints remain that bigotry is fine, so long as
you're bigoted against the right stuff. Tom, I also fully support
your right to express any opinion you desire. But I am afraid
that I will remain one of those who consider hateful invective
to be, as you described, "unhelpful". I found having the choice
between two hypocritical @$$holes extremely annoying, and ended
up making my choice on the one who had offended me the least. Of
course, the winner now gets to spend the next four years offending
me, but I had determined that that was a foregone conclusion no
matter WHO won. God help us, Nader seemed to be slinging the least
BS, but that may be only because he was so roundly ignored by the
press. Doing research on the remaining candidates was frustrating,
in part because they really stand no chance, but none of THEM
inspired me as well.

I hate saying this (though it's my own fault; I was EXPECTING the
wrong thing....) but you actually were more reasonable than some
other people. I suppose I will have to wait for Snarlings to see
the gloves-off, free-for-all rant I expected. I'm not sure if an
apology is appropriate; I've always felt you sort of reveled in
that sort of thing, and to opine that you were mellowing might be
taken as an insult....

Anyway, it was good to see you at OVFF. I've never been especially
socially connected, but you seemed to have been going through some
really rough times. I got the impression that things are going
somewhat better. ( I know I could just ASK someone, but my upbringing
has me feeling that would be so "rude"....) Hang in there. And
feel free to be as mellow as you wish to....which may be asking
the knife to be dull, but staying TOO sharp can wear things down
much too fast!