Dreams Of Noise

They'd better have their fucking robot labor force in place, and it had better be Three-Laws foolproof.

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palenoue.livejournal.com

As usual, the "fair and balanced" Fox let the oil guy slander and sleaze, but interrupted the Gore supporter when he tried to interject some important fact.

At what point can we sue Fox news for violating truth in advertising?

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unclelumpy.livejournal.com

Yeah, and who's gonna cook your food, clean your house, pick your fields and fight your wars, assholes?

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darthparadox.livejournal.com

Reminds me of another Bob the Angry Flower classic (http://angryflower.com/atlass.gif)...

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umbran.livejournal.com

Oh, no need. You see, the Military-Pharmaceutical complex has already begun a program to convert a certain percentage of the population into pollution-resistant drones that lack free will...

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I can't believe how brazen these guys are!

*sigh* Or maybe I can.

Seeing guys like this and knowning that most of the sheeple will swallow his lines if allowed gives me little hope for this country.

Anybody decided what country they'd move to if necessary? Because I'm taking notes...

I'm going to vote and vote hard in the next election and I can only hope and pray that it changes things for the better.

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I should have stopped at reading the post, instead of going and readong the comments.

Yes, the guy's a dick, and he's out of line. Is it necessary for every other comment to mention his weight? When is it going to sink in on either side that you can't bitch about the level of discourse while lowering it? *argh!*

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Anybody decided what country they'd move to if necessary?

Ideally, somewhere with a REALLY high elevation. =P

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They're cloning Milton from Office Space?

*shudder*

*ahem*

Anyway isn't this what the conspiracy nuts have been saying about the over-city "jet trail spraying" all along. ;-)

Not that I wouldn't buy our government to do something like that it's just that it doesn't pass Occam's Razor.

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*D'oh!*

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the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com

Yes, the guy's a dick, and he's out of line. Is it necessary for every other comment to mention his weight?

So far, in this LJ, zero comments have mentioned his weight.

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Unfortunately, it's still "cool" to make fun of fat people. I commented myself in that very thread about that, pointing out that I was fatter than that guy. On the other hand, I'm not evil.

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No, no -- on the original Think Progress comment thread.

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I was talking about the comments on the blog to which the link goes.

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*shrug*

People pick the target they can. If they see something they know is wrong even the most uninformed and unenlightened will attack it any way they can. Some can't mount a cohesive attack from a high point so they attack from a low point.

Of course attacking anything from a low point is ill advised usually...

I'm sure a few of those comments are trolls but I doubt all of them are.

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Oh, I know. I remember many a Fark thread regarding Michael Moore, where the dominating factor in the dismissal of him was, apparently, his weight. I just don't get it.

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I was hoping they'd be troll-esque. What I found more upsetting was that many of them actually had decent points to make--points that were then ruined, even if I agreed with them, by attacks on his weight. If his weight were in ANY way related to his argument or position, then I'd find it valid. Which is why I don't feel terribly hypocritical calling him a dick, since that's rather related to his argument. *heh*

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Point.

But then perhaps they just don't know how much sinking to that level damages their arguments.

filkertom probably has it right though and I'm just wishfully thinking that they have higher motivations.

I'm an incurable optimist sometimes.

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I do think that's some of it--people don't really, as a general rule, understand how much not acting like a 6th grader bolsters even a weak argument.

Unfortunately, I think we're somehow becoming conditioned to this being the way discussion, and it seems especially online discussion, happens. The Internet is, as has been said, a public forum--or a bathroom wall, depending on who you ask. And some of it is frustration.

I incurred some wrath and some support in a pro-choice LJ community once upon a time by merely suggesting that perhaps we were not serving our cause terribly well by dismissing everyone who disagreed with us as a "right-wing misogynistic repressive Nazi whackjob." Never did I say, "We should play nice and crap rainbows upon our opposition;" I merely tried to open a discussion about how our words affected how others viewed our cause, and how we viewed it ourselves. While some nasty things were said against my suggestion, what I ended up gleaning from it was a general feeling of, "They aren't doing it, and I'm tired of being the one who has to play nice." That frustration is understandable, and I think it deserves acknowledgement, but I also stand by my opinion that as a general rule, the calmer you are and the less you stoop to personal attacks, the more intelligent you appear and the more your opinion will be accepted as valid.

Also, I hate it when people whip out the Nazi card. The vast majority of people who do so have no real comprehension of what it is they're doing. See above re: this guy's a dick. =P

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I suspect a lot of it is born of a reflex inherent to the near-instantaneous nature of communication on the Internet -- when someone says something really stupid and offensive, or appears to be stupid and offensive, especially when it's done anonymously, you want to lash out immediately... and often anonymously.

Some of the troll-bashing I've got into at, for instance, Eschaton has been wild, wooly, and frankly gross. But, then, some of the trolls are there specifically to rile us up. And a few of them have turned out to be real-world stalkers; a couple of women I know have had threatening phone calls, and I've had a few myself.

You're absolutely correct about the-calmer-you-are, but the gut reaction that many people have to that approach (certainly including me, and I used to be an advocate of it) is that they [a] tend to be Democrats or at least progressive/liberals, [b] have watched the Democratic "leadership" spend lots of time letting BushCo get away with damn near everything and not rocking the boat, and [c] are sick and tired of being called everything from shrill to psychos to seditionists to treasonous terrorist supporters to whatever, but when we try to say anything we're... shrill psycho seditionist treasonous terrorist-supporting whatevers. Ergo, politeness is considered, by many, optional, in deference to a perceived need to defend ourselves from being stomped.

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seanmonster.livejournal.com

...their own kids will be rich enough to buy clean air.

You mean like this (http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20060513p2a00m0na027000c.html)?

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liddle-oldman.livejournal.com

Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me this week played a piece of a new ad touting the wonders of CO2 -- "Some call it pollution. We call it Life".

My wife defines evil as "Seeing the way and turning your back on it." So, yeah, evil.

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liddle-oldman.livejournal.com

Thanks a lot. You just made me pee myself...

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Those...eyebrows...

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darthparadox.livejournal.com

You're, um, welcome? ...Have a towel.

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allandaros.livejournal.com

It's a well known fact that the fatter someone is, the less value their opinions have. Observe: nobody took Jabba the Hutt's political opinions seriously.

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tropism.livejournal.com

They are, they are! I've seen it! They clog the halls of the IRS!

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*AUUUUUGGGGHHHHH!*

*runs away screaming*

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"Respect: An elegant weapon for a more civilized age."

I think that's what it comes down to. You have to at least respect the person you're arguing with/lampooning as a worthy opponent otherwise it's not worth it in my opinion.

Even with trolls you have to respect their tenacity if nothing else.

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mrfnord.livejournal.com

Something like this?

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unclelumpy.livejournal.com

Petty right-wing direct-to-DVD slam-film entitled "A Convenient Lie" featuring Anne Coulter and Oil-Indsutry-Backed Scientists in 5... 4... 3...

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nagasvoice.livejournal.com

IT's so weird that they have all the money, too.
They're so STUPID!

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avt-tor.livejournal.com

The transcript contains a subtle misquote. The speaker is quoted as saying "fair and balanced", but the actual quote should be "Fair and Balanced ™", the particular journalistic branding used by Fox News, not actually "fair" or "balanced". It's kind of like "light" cigarettes...

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stdharma.livejournal.com

was wrong as snakes on an eight lane highway. I loved it.

Saint Dharma

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stdharma.livejournal.com

Which is perfectly acceptable, given the forum. However, I have seen Mississippi Burning enough times to say, "These people were born in a sewer, Mr. Ward. Maybe it's time we go down into the gutter and fight them."

It doesn't always work, but it seems that playing nice isn't working either.

Saint Dharma, patron saint of playing nice while readying the Louisville Slugger

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siliconshaman.livejournal.com

New Zealand, most of the habitable land is well above even the highest pojected sea levels, it's also least likely to be affected by climate changes...
and the natives have this reputation of making do with with whatever they've got... but then if you're 3000 miles from the next bit of land, so would you. [NZ economy is about 90% self-sufficent, when it isn't exporting].

Personally, I'm moving there in a few years, and then I'll kick back on the beach, throw another lamb chop on the barbie and watch the rest of civilisation burn.

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siliconshaman.livejournal.com

Peter principle.. incompetance gets promoted until it goes away.

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*sigh* As much as I complain and rant I'm not quite ready to give up on the rest of civilization yet. Yet. Though NZ would be a good choice.

The problem, as I see it, is that those of us that are intelligent and trying to change the system are the ones that will be first up against the wall if the government cracks down. At the risk of invoking Godwin and poisoning this thread I could say that some of us are probably going to have to make the same choice the Jews in Germany did - stay or go. "I didn't speak up...", etc.

But I honestly don't think it's gotten to anywhere near that point yet. But then there were people in Germany who didn't see it until it was upon them.

I'll shut up now before you hear the sound of my tinfoil rustling. ;-)

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siliconshaman.livejournal.com

*tsk* nobody uses tinfoil to shield against mind control masers. Didn't you read the study that proved that designs actually magnified the amplitude at those frequencies...
serious conspiracy buffs use colanders now...preferribly with a decent grounding wire attached.

As for the rest, way I figure it is, if you want to get a good place you have to get in early. This shit isn;t going to stop, [and here britain we're not that far behind you lot... I mean, RFID chips in compulsory ID cards?] plus all the shit that'll go down when global warming and climate change really start to bite... [can we say minimum 7m sea level rise, goodbye London and the home counties].

Way I figure it is, if we get out now before it gets too bad. We have a chance of building the nucleaous of a new way, something better, before it all come crashing down. Which'll give us that much of a head start on rebuilding.

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*tsk* nobody uses tinfoil to shield against mind control masers. Didn't you read the study that proved that designs actually magnified the amplitude at those frequencies...
serious conspiracy buffs use colanders now...preferribly with a decent grounding wire attached.

*chuckle* Actually I was told that a complete hat of un-crushed beer cans worked. ;-)

As for the rest, way I figure it is, if you want to get a good place you have to get in early. This shit isn;t going to stop, [and here britain we're not that far behind you lot... I mean, RFID chips in compulsory ID cards?] plus all the shit that'll go down when global warming and climate change really start to bite... [can we say minimum 7m sea level rise, goodbye London and the home counties]

The sad part is that's the way I think too but there's so much that I see stopping me. My wife won't even hear of the idea because of our special needs daughter. My friends tell me I'm nuts. But I keep seeing it get worse...

Way I figure it is, if we get out now before it gets too bad. We have a chance of building the nucleaous of a new way, something better, before it all come crashing down. Which'll give us that much of a head start on rebuilding.

I hope it doesn't come to that in my lifetime. Though I will train my daughter to be able to deal with it in hers if necessary.

If I had the money I would do two things: Buy a buttload of empty 55 gallon oil drums, a bunch of chains, and a bunch of solar panels with wiring. Connect all that together in the right way and then just wait for it to accrete material out of the seawater to bind it all together. In theory what you get is a floating island at that point.

The second thing would be to buy one of the old Russian diesel/electric subs that the Soviet Navy is getting rid of. They still have quite a few that are seaworthy and could easily be used for small cargo transport - like a courier service - as the seas rise. Or if I can find the armaments they could be used as security to guard cargo ships against piracy - which is still a problem and growing.

Damn. I've exposed myself as a nutcase... Time to take my medicine again. ;-)

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I understand the reflex aspect. I certainly can't claim that I've approached every conversation I've been part of from the higher ground--I slung my fair share of names in the past while thoroughly pissed off. But generally, if I am going to get into a name-calling situation, I do it from a very calm, polite, if-you're-an-idiot-you-aren't-even-going-to-understand-I-just-slammed-you angle. Not necessarily any more mature than being a troll, but it takes more synapses, so at least I have that going for me.

I also understand the reasons behind the idea of "politeness as optional rather than the first level of recourse." I don't agree with it, though. I think it's possible to defend yourself from being stomped without giving the other side ammunition. Maybe that's what it boils down to for me: if they're going to rip me apart anyhow, why give them more to play with?

I'm tired of being called a baby killer on my way into my clinic's office while carrying my 9 month old son. I'm tired of being told that my polytheistic beliefs are ruining America. I'm tired of being told that my belief that SUVs are not only an economic hazard but also a safety hazard is a result of my jealousy of wealth (bwah?) Death tax, welfare state, socialism, "when are you Libs going to get it..." I'm sick to death of all of it. It makes me furious to take a look around me and realize the state of things, how truly horrible they are.

But it's not going to change unless people start listening. Not to talking heads, to pundits, to paid oil company spokesmen or Bill O'Reilly. When everyday people start listening to everyday people, that is what's going to spur on change. When people start to actually think about what's going on, to consider that perhaps what they've been told by aforementioned talking heads may not be true, and here's why, that is where battles are to be won.

The idealist in me, beaten down as she may be, believes that everyday people ultimately give the most weight to the person who speaks the most calmly. In a shouting match, it is the person who is not shouting who garners the attention.

This does not prevent me from ranting in my LJ. But it does prevent me from responding to people who call me a baby killer with the words "misogynistic fascist whackjob." It enables me to walk up to the protestor with the sign that says, "We'll take your baby," and offer to let them have my son, and watch the look on their face. It also enables me to ask them the questions that every person on that side of the spectrum should be asked.

It does not prevent me from muttering "douche" on my way back to my car, but hey, you can't win 'em all.

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Even with trolls you have to respect their tenacity if nothing else.

Nah. I could spend all day rephrasing one offensive sentiment and posting it over and over. That's not tenacity; that's access to a thesaurus. =P

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Sometimes I agree; fighting dirty seems the only option at times.

Maybe it's just that I keep hoping if I don't lower myself, they'll have to come up and get me.

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*

nimitzbrood keeps can of Troll-Be-Gone handy just in case* ;-)

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