Rose And The Doctor

[filkertom]

I have finally finished catching up with Doctor Who. Finished watching "Doomsday".

Broke my freakin' heart.

Sorry, but not even Sara Jane had me like Rose Tyler has me.

'Sfunny. The plots of the last several episodes didn't grab me all that much on one level -- I mean, the Devil? The Devil? Excuses for The Doctor to have to take on Daleks and Cybermen in the same episode? On the other hand, a lot of the stuff -- particularly the single-minded machinations of Torchwood -- made perfect sense. And it all certainly unfolded well, with the possible exception of Horrors! The TARDIS is gone! We know it'll be back. Don't even.

But the big thing, in all cases, was the characterization. And the dialogue. Who could've predicted, from seeing the first Eccleston episode, how cool Mickey and alternate Pete and even Jackie would become? Let alone how cool Rose would become. She stared down Daleks, man.

So. Apparently the third season has a new companion. How long, ya think, before they breach the "impossible", impassable Void a third time and bring back Rose?

Comments

[kathy-the-geek.livejournal.com]

I give it about five episodes before they bring her back. :-)

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Have you seen The Runaway Bride yet?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Nope. I'll look for that later tonight.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

... got it. I do love YouTube and KeepIt!

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

I'm betting long odds--I think they'll keep her gone.

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

I'm betting they don't. I'm HOPING they don't, much as I loved her.

For one thing, I hate when people cheapen tragic endings.

For another, I imagine they'd bring her back with a different actress, and that would suck. =(

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

The second season wasn't as good as the first one was. But I give them points for trying to make a Whiz-Bang season.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I absolutely adore Eccleston. And I cannot wait for any prospective "Ten Doctors" episode to see him, Tennant, Davidson, and Baker onscreen together. But they did a lot of very good stuff in the second season, and most of it was character growth, which is something I simply don't remember from earlier Doctors. Watching Rose, Mickey, Jackie, and the various versions of Pete grow and change -- not to mention all the other callbacks, flashbacks, and Special Guest returns -- was pretty damn cool.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

I cannot wait for any prospective "Ten Doctors" episode to see him, Tennant, Davidson, and Baker onscreen together.

Wow, I hadn't thought of that. Holy...that would be bloody marvelous.

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Hey, 2008 will be the 30th season and 45th anniversary... it could happen. :)

[zeekar.livejournal.com]

See, I started out with the second season; having not been a huge fan of the original series, I wasn't sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for the reincarnation. But I love Tennant's Doctor. And when I finally saw back-episodes of Eccleston, my reaction was negative. Absolutely hated him in comparison to Tennant. But now that I've seen almost all of the first season (thank you, BBC America), he's really grown on me. He's a bit more believable, I think, although Tennant's version makes for a somewhat deeper Doctor - all sweetness and light on the surface (unlike Eccleston's protrayal), but still with that anger and bitterness lurking below, ready to strike (as with our favorite over-identified PM).

I'm only watching them as they're aired over here, so I haven't seen "The Runaway Bride" yet. But as much as I love Rose and Jackie and Mickey (though not so much either version of Mr. Tyler), I'm looking forward to a new companion. I'm interested in the inevitable comparison with Rose - not by the fans, but by the Doctor himself.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

That would require them getting Billie Piper back, which probably won't happen.

Jack is another story, especially since he's still doing BBC science fiction playing the same character. Have you seen any Torchwood?

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

Jack is coming back. The Beeb have confirmed it. I doubt, given his responsibilities at Torchwood, that he will be another Companion per se, but he and the Doctor will meet again.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

(Oh, I know. I was trying to avoid the spoiler by saying what might happen instead of what would. His appearances are already scheduled and announced for next season, though of course it's subject to change.)

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

Oops. My bad. Sorry, Tom. :)

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

It'll be splashed all over the Net when we get closer to the season premiere anyway. ^_^

Don't actually know when that is. I should look that up.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Not a crisis. I haven't seen any eps of Torchwood yet, and it's not as important to me as the Doctor. (Or all that Galactica I now have to catch up with....)

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Hrm. On this one, I definitely want to know what you think...when did you leave off?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

BSG? Only seen the mini series and "33". I've got the Season One set, and now I can get to it. In my CFT....

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

*blink* Whoa. I figured you meant, you hadn't seen Season 3 (or parts thereof).

Now I definitely want to know what you think.

(I know how you feel with the CFT. Especially since I plunked down...let's just say "a lot" for anime last weekend.)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Well, I've been writing at least one song a week for six months now.... :-/ The biggest symptom of my running out of CFT is as straightforward as can be: I haven't booted up The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion since a month after it came out... a month after I got a new graphics card I really couldn't afford specifically to play it. I haven't got the new expsnsion, and I'm probably not going to before the second expansion comes out in March. And I may not get back to playing it before May.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Well, I've been writing at least one song a week for six months now.... :-/

Exactly. I don't blame you for being completely shot of time for such frivolity as watching TV, even good TV. (No one has time for bad TV.)

Incidentally, does the list of "what's taking up Tom's formerly-free time" include a cover art image for iTom 2.0: Transitions? Sorry, but I'm thorough about that...the only albums in my collection without cover images are, well, iTom 2.0, the incomplete iTom 3.0, and the first FuMP album, which is marked "The FuMP Disc 1" until I learn the real name.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I have that, and I hope to have the HTML interface done by the end of the week.

Other time-sinks include tricky commission work, crisising for friends, family stuff, minimal cleaning (I really have to do a Full Spring Cleaning number on this dump), creating a web page for a friend (and getting paid for it, mind), and more business phone calls than I ever imagined.

Also remember that I happily gave up TV, what, about four years ago now, when the DSL price/speed ratio got to an acceptable level and I could dump ComCrap. Anything I really need to watch, I can download or buy on DVD. And if I end up being behind the curve on stuff... well, I can live with that.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

I have that, and I hope to have the HTML interface done by the end of the week.

Very cool.

Also remember that I happily gave up TV, what, about four years ago now, when the DSL price/speed ratio got to an acceptable level and I could dump ComCrap.

Huh. I actually did not know that--but it explains why you didn't get hooked on Heroes like the rest of us.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I've seen a little. And tomreedtoon sent me some DVDs, which I hope to check out in the next couple of weeks. But from what I have seen, and as documented in the necessary and good comic strip Sheldon, Heroes is X-Men in slow motion.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

It has similarities, I admit...but if it's X-Men in slow motion, it's the top-shelf stuff. Not the "making Stan Lee cry" variety.

[kengr]

If you need episodes, I'll happily mail you disks... :-)

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

Enh... in the "Five Doctors", they brought in a dead ringer(wince, sorry) to play Hartnell(#1), who's gone and died himself in the meantime, and the show didn't suffer from it. If they have to 'replace' a few Doctors with stand ins, that would still be cool by me...!

[allisona.livejournal.com]

That final episode broke my heart, too- it was wonderfully done. Still, I really hope they would never write Rose back into the series as I think it would cheapen the integrity of what they've set up. I'm more than willing to give the new companion a chance, just like I was willing to give the new Doctor a chance last season. Rose is just one of a long line of companions before her. I'm sure there's more companions to come we will identify with just as well.

Plus, I rather expect Billie Piper doesn't want to come back :).

[batyatoon]

I think she'll stay gone.

Which is probably a good thing -- I adore Rose to bits, but Companions aren't supposed to stay around too long.

[autographedcat.livejournal.com]

So. Apparently the third season has a new companion. How long, ya think, before they breach the "impossible", impassable Void a third time and bring back Rose?

Dear god. Never, I hope.

Look, I love Rose. She was a great companion. But her story is over. Her arc is complete. Bringing her back would be....so phenominally wrong that I have no words to express it.

[solarbird]

I have the entire arc of the Rose Tyler series already in my head. The whole thing. It's huge.

[daundelyon.livejournal.com]

I got yelled at for not warning a friend of mine how that episode ended. My only defense was I had no idea she was even watching the series in the first place.
Rarely does a TV show bring tears to my eyes, but the Doctor has managed it time and again. This one brought on a full fit of crying.

[jmthane.livejournal.com]

Yeah. "Doomsday." Frakking brilliant. :-)

When did Doctor Who start reaching out and grabbing you by the emotions, anyway?

(Don't worry - that's a rhetorical question - I know the answer...)

Maybe

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

The one that got me was the Baker magnum opus Genesis of the Daleks. Until Eccleston, that was really the only one that ever did.

Re: Maybe

[jmthane.livejournal.com]

Not to take anything away from Genesis, because it is an excellent story, but see my comment to nightmarewriter about Dalek. That episode wins hands down for me. First time I ever shed tears for a damn Dalek.

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

The Girl in the Fireplace got me... we never expected such depth from Dr. Who... and never have I seen an episode that underlines so clearly the underlying tragedy of the character... who gives his heart, time and again, only to see the recipient wither and die... even faster than normal this time... which is why we get a glimpse of the raw pain he suffers every time, before he stuffed it down inside again.

[jmthane.livejournal.com]

Well, great, my comment didn't post for whatever reason. I'll try again...

Girl in the Fireplace is another great example, yes. So is Eccleston's Father's Day - I knew how the story had to end when Rose saved her dad, and it *still* got me. It was a very well done predictable story. That's why I like Dalek better - except for "ELEVATE", I knew that trick from McCoy's Dalek story, this Dalek was not only a true badass, the story kept taking turns in directions I wasn't expecting. And *that* story got me, too.

[devospice.livejournal.com]

The second season was definitely not as strong as the first but I for one LOVED that Devil episode. I thought that was a really neat idea. The thought that the entire universe's idea of "the Devil" came from this one imprisoned alien creature that has been there since "before time."

And just that one Ood saying in his proper British accent...

Ood: "His armies will rise up and wage war against God."
Rose: "I'm sorry, what?"
*Ood smacks his translater a couple times*
Ood: "Would you like some sauce with that?"

Or something to that effect. Had me cracking up.

And I agree that the Dalek Vs. Cybermen thing was a little contrived but I enjoyed the hell out of it.

Cyberman: "You have declared war against the Cybermen."
Dalek: "This is not war. This is PEST CONTROL!"

That needs to be on a shirt.

And yeah, awesome ending. Awesome character development. They really didn't do that much in the first series, although they started to with Ace.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Dalek/Cybermen banter was fabulous. And it was bloody chilling when you suddenly realized that the Cybermen did not have a freakin' chance. Genesis of the Daleks was the first ep that I saw that actually convinced me those dumb robots were a menace; Dalek was the ep that chilled me to the bone. When the Doctor freaked out and pulled a Froderick Fronkensteen, I was suddenly mortally terrified of that little pencil sharpener.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Cyberman: "You have declared war against the Cybermen."
Dalek: "This is not war. This is PEST CONTROL!"

That wasn't the line that sold me. Mickey had that one: "My god, it's like Stephen Hawking meets the speaking clock!"

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

My kids have been walking around since they saw that episode going "We must feed. We must feed."

[the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com]

'Sfunny. The plots of the last several episodes didn't grab me all that much on one level -- I mean, the Devil? The Devil?

It works a bit better if you think of it as a Lovecraft tribute.

[moose]

Daleks crack me the hell up. So much snark in a metal body.

Do try to see some Torchwood. It's a bit (ok, a lot) darker than Who, but most of the 1st season episodes are fantastic.

Doom, doom, doom and gloom...

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Rose won't be back. They haven't mastered the basic technique of picking actors they can hang on to. (As in, not people who are already stars and at their peak.) When/if Tennant goes it will almost certainly be too soon, and at best a precedent will have been set which will curtail the life of the series.

And I know I'm alone in this, but I think putting so much emotional oomph into the Rose arc was a mistake (one of many): either no companion will ever be that special again, which will be a huge letdown, or every companion will be that special, which will cheapen Rose by comparison. There was a fundamental misunderstanding at the outset about what Doctor Who needed to be about, and it's weakened the show ever since.

I know it's brilliant. But it could have been so much better.

[wwetuesday.livejournal.com]

Some believe that The Doctor was going to say I Love You back to Rose after she said it. I was one of them. My jaw dropped and I cursed my computer screen when The Doctor faded away before he could say it.

But months later, I don't think so. I think The Doctor would say...what has become Ten's signature phrase...

"I'm sorry...I'm so sorry."

Would it have been cruel? Yep. But it seems so like The Doctor. Even if he did fall in love with a woman, he'd never tell her.

I enjoyed the banter between the Cybermen and Daleks. And someone made a funny skit about it.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

They've never brought back companions for anything more than single episodes, as far as I remember. It would be a terrible thing to start now.

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

Broke my freakin' heart.

I lay down and cried for a good 15-20 minutes nonstop at least.

I'd watched the last few eps with fear at the back of my mind, knowing that all Companions have to go away, all Companions have to lose him sooner or later, and watched with this dread hanging over me... was this going to be it? How were they going to do it.

I asked gfish nervously, "...do Companions ever die?"

I thought about this a lot both before and after. I described it to Fishy and he didn't feel the same dread-- never had, all the years he's watched the show-- it hadn't even occurred to him.

I realized something then. I'd felt this way not because I'd grown attached to Rose, but because I'd identified with Rose. And Fishy... he'd always identified with the Doctor.

That's kinda when it hit me that I had to write "Companion". :)

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Yes. Companions do die. Katarina and Sara Kingdom (both 1st Doctor), Adric (4th and 5th Doctors), and the oft-forgotten Kamelion (5th)... not to mention K-9 Mark III in School Ties. And if you want to be technical about it, Captain Jack was a Companion who also died, but he got better. ;)