Rage Against The Machine

[filkertom]

Okay, what the fuck is up with all these sales calls I'm getting?

I'm on the Do Not Call list. I don't give my phone number out gratuitously. And yet I'm getting calls from everybody -- cleaning services, mortgage companies, credit card debt managers, places that want to sell me warranty insurance on my van. And they're all the goddamn fucking will-not-let-you-hang-up bots. I wonder if anyone's died because they were trying to call 911 while some recording illegally tried to sell them something.

Anyone else dealing with this shit? Any idea what we can do?

ETA: In answer to various comments below:

• I have already verified my numbers on the Do Not Call List.
• When I registered for that, I was automatically put on the Michigan list.
• I'm not going all cellular. Even here in Ann Arbor, calls drop. Bluntly, I don't trust cellular completely. And it's got other twitchy things, such as random audio volume, that tick me off.
• I'm not going to unplug my phone. It's not going to help -- I have another phone in the other room. Should I unplug them both? And, what kind of solution is unplugging the phone? The point is not to make your technology even more useless; it's to get back the use of it, without these frickin' ads.
• I don't want to use a telezapper, or just not answer -- I get calls that I need to get from people whose number I don't necessarily know.
• I haven't signed up for any contests lately, and I don't give my phone number out to companies I do deal with that want it. I actually cancelled my account with a clothing store that hit me with a sales recording.

Comments

[laurel-potter.livejournal.com]

We have the same problem, although we're not on a "do not call" list. Looks like it won't do any good to get on one, either.

If it's a recording, listen to it all the way to the end. Sometimes they give you an option "if you do not want to recieve further call, press 8". I've only had one that that didn't work with.

I think they figure most people will hang up in frustration, and don't listen to the entire call.

(25 days until HP&DH!)

[denali1.livejournal.com]

Well, it shouldn't have expired off yet. All registry entries are valid for five years from date of registration. Assuming you signed up the moment it opened, like I did, then your registration is good until June 2008. The only people who can call you after that are "from or on behalf of political organizations, charities, and telephone surveyors would still be permitted, as would calls from companies with which you have an existing business relationship, or those to whom you’ve provided express agreement in writing to receive their calls".

First suggestion would be to go back to http://www.donotcall.gov and verify you're still on the registry. If you are, time to log who is calling you and make some complaints.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

The Do Not Call site does have a reporting feature, though they point out that you need to know either the number from which you're called or the business name. They also point out that they might not be able to stop the individuals from calling again, but that every report of a violation helps prosecute offenders.

[isolde-deely.livejournal.com]

also, make sure you're on the state do not call list as well

[shadowe.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, you can do what we do and simply screen ALL calls through the machine...and when you realize it is an automated call, simply lift the receiver and hang up. It usually only takes a couple of times before they stop calling...at least for us.

Being on the DNC List helps, but is not fool proof yet, as there is very little the FCC/Govt can do to prosecute those who break the law.

Namaste, Hugs and Blessings,
Shadowe

[kestrels-nest.livejournal.com]

I've been doing the pick-up and hang-up thing for at least a month, and it has not deterred them. The same one calls us daily, and starts with "this is not a sales call. We need to discuss an Important Business Matter" - and has the chutzpah to leave a call back number and transaction code!

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[nomaddervish.livejournal.com]

Or a scam agency claiming to work for your credit card company and trying to get you to give them your full credit card number (they call with the last 4 digits, probably found on a discarded receipt somewhere) to sign up for a "special offer". (Yes, I've gotten that one a few times...)

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[mdlbear]

Have a business license? I think calls to business numbers may be exempt.

[stormgren.livejournal.com]

And they're all the goddamn fucking will-not-let-you-hang-up bots.

As in, if you hang up, they call back?

[bschilli.livejournal.com]

As in they don't clear the line if you hang up.

[wildcard9.livejournal.com]

I had to call the phone company last month due to this, they prevented my line for disconnecting at all, so I had no working phone. The phone company had to come down and do something with the physical lines to finally get it to clear.

[que-sara-sara.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it'll work for you but I've unplugged the house phone (only have the line because you have to for DSL) and operate solely off my cell phone. It's horridly "illegal" for them to solicit you on a cell phone.

OoO! Why don't you try telling them that they're calling you on a cell phone because you ported the number and if they'll stop calling you won't report them this time?? It's all incredibly possible and will hopefully pause the calls for a bit at least.

[surakofb5.livejournal.com]

Except that doesn't work if a real person never comes on the line. A lot of sales calls just play recorded messages. Even worse, for a while I was getting automated messages from a bill collector looking for someone I've never heard of because they had my phone number down for his contact info.

I make liberal use of the Caller ID - I don't answer unless I recognize the number.

[kengr]

I had that happen, I finally listened to the thing long enough to get the contact info, called them, explained that I was not this person, had never heard of this person, and had had the number for 10 years. And said that if they called me again, I'd be reporting them.

Y'see collection agencies aren't *allowed* to do the incessant calling thing. So once you have the contact info (which they pretty uch have to include or it defeats the purpose of the call) you've got them over a barrel. They can be closed down if they continue calling.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[que-sara-sara.livejournal.com]

Ah, it's been so long since I got a spam call I forgot that do recordings. *sigh* Sorry about that.

[droewyn.livejournal.com]

Have you signed up for any contests of the fill-this-card-out-and-stuff-it-in-the-box variety recently? Ever since the Do Not Call List, many of those contests include a bit in the fine print that says that by entering the contest you give them permission to call you whether you're on the list or not.

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

I am getting them too. Frankly, I think the whole "Do Not Call List" thing was just a ruse to make us thing that someone was doing something about phone spam. Cynical much? OK maybe. But waking me from a sound sleep does nothing for anybody's chances of selling me something.

[wildcard9.livejournal.com]

I have a tele-zapper so when I pick-up the phone, you hear the 3 tone "number invalid" signal. If the phone number is not listed, if I bother to answer the phone (most of the time I don't), I say "this number does not accept anonymous phone calls" and hang right up. I've also used "WildCard Computer Tech Support, may I please have your customer ID number?", and just say they called a business line. The best is when they call while I am on the air on Dementia Radio, so I use my speaker phoen next to the PC speakers and tell them to wait until the song is over before we go back live on the air. That gets rid of them fast. Only one person ever stayed around to go on the air.

[kengr]

A tip. Most of the computer made calls listen for "hello?". So don't say "hello" when you pick up the phone.

For example, my answering machine message says "This is 503-555-0100. If you are a telemarketer, political pollster or survey, put me on your do not call list. ...."

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

First, check--"do not call" list entries expire and it may be time to update yours. If you have a current do-not-call entry, submit a complain to the FCC--those callers are committing a crime and can be fined.

[kenalepha.livejournal.com]

I heard that if you put the same tones which tell a computer the phone number is not in service at the beginning of the voicemail message the automated machines remove your number. Then your voicemail greeting can tell people that you are screening your calls and to speak up so you know who is on the line.
I have not tried it, but it might work.
My favorite annoyance call is the automated "I'm sorry, I have a wrong number' which was understandable the first time it was on the messages, but when you get the same voice and inflections over and over again saying the same exact thing, it is pretty sure to be the message the machine makes when they picked up a different line than yours.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

The annoying thing about DNC lists is that they're only really applicable to people within the jurisdiction anyway. If I'm on the Canadian do-not-contact list, someone living one step across the border isn't going to care at all.

Lately we've been getting a shitload of that sort of thing, but it's all been bank and credit card phishing instead of telemarketers.

[tomreedtoon.livejournal.com]

Just wait. It will get worse. Election season is coming.

There are all sorts of irresponsible groups being set up by the Republicans to hound you with "polls" asking your opinions about, for example, "Barack OSAMA Bin Laden" being a traitor, Hillary Clinton being a lesbian, and all the rest. It's possible for Democrats to do this as well, but the Democrats are determined to do everything to avoid winning, so they won't have too many of these calls.

And since these groups are intended to work only before elections, they will evaporate (and become unaddressable by lawsuits) soon before election day.

I have no solution except to use an answering machine while sleeping and cutting off any phones near you. For the longest time I allowed myself to sleepily answer these calls, then go back to sleep, thinking that I might be getting an urgent call about somebody. Well, since my mother died last year, I have no immediate concerns about that.

[kengr]

The Democrats go for email spam. I had to complain several times back in 2000 and once in 04.

And a friend who worked customer service for the local office of a national ISP informed me that the DNC had been kicked off several ISPs including the one she worked for for spamming.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Gaaaah. You may recall awhile back, when I was sent damn near ballistic by the multiple phone calls from the Michigan Democratic Committee... from a phone bank in Minnesota. I told them that if they couldn't even have the decency to employ people in their own state to call people in their own state, they would never get another dime from me. They fum-fuhhed about laws 'n' stuff, and I said, "Aren't the Democratic representatives the ones who write the rules? Goodbye." And hung up.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

You think that's bad? There is a problem being tracked on a few web sites--which I deeply regret I can't find right now--of overseas phone banks allegedly being used. Since they don't follow U.S. law--though more because they're unlikely to get caught than because they're allowed to ignore it--they may be impossible to stop.

I hate to be mean about this, but one strategy that has worked if you wind up with a human on the other line is to simply keep a police whistle by the phone. Just be sure to warn that you're going to use it, and that you'll use it for all subsequent calls...and if you find the need to use it, remember to pull your ear away from the handset. ;)

I'm not 100 percent sure, but I believe that you may be able to request a complete audit log from your phone company (you get one automatically if you have a cell phone, since you pay for incoming calls) that shows all incoming and outgoing calls. If you keep reasonable records of when the offending sales calls come through, you should be able to correlate the numbers you don't recognize with the offenders.

Additionally, if you are getting calls from your credit card companies or other creditors about outstanding bills, do not answer. If you even pick up the phone and hang up, that could be construed in some states as a refusal to pay, even though you never discussed your account. I'm not sure if hanging up on a telemarketing call from your credit card company fits into the same category, but to be safe, I wouldn't answer those calls either.

There are several credit card issuers, regrettably, that don't honor their own do-not-call lists; i.e., you can scream until you're blue in the face for them not to telemarket to you, and they'll assure you that you are now on their do-not-call list...which apparently expires whenever they "have an important opportunity you should know about"...usually in a day or two.

Ultimately, I'm following a multiple-vector strategy that includes written complaints to the FCC and FTC; lobbying my local congresscritters to push the Just Us Department for better enforcement; searching for a phone that has a button that allows you to shut off the ringer for just that call (haven't found one yet); and the aforementioned police whistle (haven't had to use it in 15 years, thankfully).

My feeling is this: telemarketing calls, especially those with random dialers are supposed to be illegal, but there are enough loopholes in the law that nobody knows when they are or not, unless those responsible admit as much, and usually, the actual responsible party is nowhere near the phone bank. Solution: find a way to crash random dialers and telemarketers' outgoing PBX servers. Of course, that's illegal, so I don't recommend it. Please don't do it. ;)

Telezapper?

[capplor.livejournal.com]

I thought that one let real people through, but somehow identified when a machine was calling. That ought to be pretty much what you want. (If it's a person you can interrupt & threaten them with whatever "do not call" penalties apply.)

Re: Telezapper?

[kengr]

There are several out that basically present a "If you are a real person dial X now" message to callers.

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

Before there was a do not call list there was the Public Utilities Commission do dot call list, and I had managed to get rid of most everything before the national one came along. If that exists in Michigan, right next door to Ohio, it might be worth looking into if it still exists.

[kengr]

And they're all the goddamn fucking will-not-let-you-hang-up bots.

That's a "feature" of the phone system. If you receive a call, you can hang up, and go to a more convenient phone. As long as it takes you less than 30 seconds to get there, the call will still be connected.

But every time you pick up the phone restarts the count.

Other than that, there's no way a caller that isn't the phone company can prevent you from hanging up.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

That's a "feature" of the phone system. If you receive a call, you can hang up, and go to a more convenient phone. As long as it takes you less than 30 seconds to get there, the call will still be connected.

I disbelieve. That sounds like no phone system I've ever used or heard of. Every one I've ever seen, you can hang up and get a dialtone in less than a second.

The only times I've ever been unable to hang up on someone is when they're a telemarketer or phisher. Ever.

[kengr]

Sorry, but it *is* documented feature of the phone system. And it only applies to *incoming* calls, not outgoing ones. On land lines, Cell phones don't have extensions, so it'd be useless there.

It was mentioned in the *news* even, years back when the "telemarketers won't let you hang up" bit made major news.

There's no *way* a caller can "hold the line" past the point that the phone switch on *your* end notes that you've hung up for "long enough". The phone system isn't designed that way.

You got dialtone because either you were using a cell phone or because the *other* party hung up when they heard you hang up.

[purpleranger.livejournal.com]

I think acelightning already mentioned this, but I use my answering machine to screen calls. My friends and family know this, and once they start speaking, I'll pick up. In fact, my mom now starts calls with, "If you're there, pick up."

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I don't have an answering machine right now, and, again, that isn't the frickin' point. I am sick to the teeth of these bastards commandeering our phone lines to sell us shit. It's not like we're not inundated with advertising anyway. Why do you think my own references to my own merch are so low-key? I don't want people raging at me.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

And on this subject, I think you're doing a really good job. I read this blog because I enjoy and respect your views, and find your personal writing edifying. Also, I find that it does let readers know about your new products without hard-selling. Thank you for striking what can be a very difficult balance!

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I appreciate it. The last thing I want to do is blast everybody over the head with All The Great Smith Merch You Can Buy. It really is more about the music, and about sharing the music. The fact that I can more-or-less live on this is the glorious cherry on top of the banana split that is my music career.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

The basic TeleZapper won't disconnect a live person -- the tone it transmits only works with automated equipment, which is what a lot of the bot-callers are using anyhow. When you answer the phone, all you or the other real person on the line hears is a brief beep. Call me if you want to hear what it sounds like. :-)

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Actually, it looks like no one has suggested this, so I'll tell you what works for me.

I wait as patiently as I can manage through the bot till I get a person, or a number to call. I speak to the person (or if necessary, call the number and speak to a person). I explain to the person, politely but in no way hiding my displeasure, that I wish to have my number removed from their list immediately. You have to ask in so many words--"don't ever call me again" might be specific enough, but I'm pretty sure "leave me alone why don't you" is not. The phrase that works for me is: "Please remove my phone number from your list of numbers to call."

When my husband and I got married, he (we) was getting three or four unwanted calls per day. It took a while, but I got it down to one every couple of weeks. This was before the Do Not Call list existed.

I still have trouble with unwanted calls, because nonprofits and such are exempted. But I've managed to keep the numbers down quite a bit using this method.

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

Whatever happened to old-time answering machines, that let you listen to the incoming call, and pick up and take over if it was someone you needed to talk to?

[archiver-tim.livejournal.com]

In my campaign for President, I will propose a national 7-1-1 number. You would be able to dial it immediatly after hanging up from any call to report unwanted calls. The Phone Company would be obligated to take an automated report, ie, from unwanted advertising, to harrasment, to a call that police action should be the follow-up to. The information would be available to you, state's attroney generals and others as needed to provide the proper penalties. We got the computer power and Phone Company technology to do it, so why not make TPC work for us in this matter?

-Ryan

[kengr]

You don't *need* a national number. That feature already exists. It's one of the * codes. (Don't have it handy at the moment)

You dial it and it'll record the number that called you unless it came from an exchange that doesn't report callerID info (it will record the number if caller ID is blocked).

The catch is that they won't tell *you* the number, and they'll only take action if you get three or more calls from the same number within a month.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

You, sir, just may get my vote.

[madfilkentist]

Bots that don't transfer you to a real person when you answer are illegal already, so it's no surprise that the people who use them ignore DNC lists.

My personal experience when I had myself added to the national DNC list, though, was that telemarketing and telescamming calls virtually disappeared -- even the ones from scammers trying to collect nonexistent debts.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

There's an annoying new tactic out there. Lately, we've been getting a lot of calls that start out with "Hello. Are you on the Do Not Call list?" They hang up immediately when we say "Yes!"