Doctor Who SPOILER THREAD

[filkertom]

I'm going to bed, but have at it. Two words: Frickin' WOW.

ETA: Okay, I obviously have to be more clear about this. I just downloaded and watched the final episode of Season Three. It was pretty damn cool.

Comments

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

What, which Who? I'm just beginning Series Three, and liking it very well.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

Season Three Finally?

SAY MY NAME... SAY MY NAME, BITCH!

Is all I could think

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

Okay. I won't read any more comments then, I've only seen Martha's first episode.

[chaosdancer.livejournal.com]

In your LJ, lurking 4 spoilerz....lurk lurk lurk lurk lurk...

[per_solo]

Holy Freaking Hell! Yeah, WOW barely covers it. :-) It had me at hello. :-P

Want...to...spoil...but...must...not...

And, the last few minutes...Christmas can't come fast enough...well, ok, must fast track it after next weekend. ;-)

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

Hey, He said have at it. So I spoiled, somewhat.

[per_solo]

*nod* He did indeed..it's hard to break a no-spoiler mindset on such things. I have too many friends who can't/won't watch it til Sci-Fi has it. :-)

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

Those fools. With how SFC cuts things, and usually the brilliant stuff... Tsk.

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

I loved how if someone isn't really that hip to what Doctor Who is about, the first half of the season finale sets up something that feels like what any other show would do, and then turns it on the head.

"I forgive you" Brilliant. Though it is almost using forgiveness as a weapon ... I can relate, I've done it too.

The Face of Boe made me at first shake my head in disbelief, but I came to respect it. It's an interesting idea, especially if true and not a throwaway gag. Even if they had to stretch the conversation past it's ending point to get the reference in there.

The ending was a neat touch. I figure Martha'll be back for Season 4 but it was a nice

I'm waiting impatiently for Christmas, let me tell you. And I feel bad for any who watch on the Sci Fi Channel, as SFC already cuts things enough, but this episode went 6 minutes over. And you know SFC will cut 6 minutes out. (The flashbacks could do with the cut, I think, but that's not six minutes)

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I could have done without the last...oh...20 minutes or half hour of the episode, really.

Huge letdown :(

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

If it had gone the way it was building up, it wouldn't have been Doctor Who. The show isn't about that, despite what goes on.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but after the last few eps (which kicked ass) this was...ummm....what's the word I'm looking for here?

Oh yes, that's it.

Bad.

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

I've always judged the season finales based on the little things. Because otherwise they fail.

I think there's a reason why Moffat's stuff is favoured to win Hugos, despite Davies doing the big emotional finales.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

YMMV.

I felt it a huge disappointment.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Okay, obviously we're not touching on the question "Why?"

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Let's see. Even for Doctor Who, the way to get Doctor Dobby back to his old self was far too much a deus ex machina solution. The power of millions of people all around the world saying "Doctor" over and over and over? A year in a birdcage and he can insinuate himself into Archangel? And him floating down like Kosh, glowing? The Master suddenly curling up into a ball because the Doctor is going to give him a hug and a kiss and say, "You're a psychotic bastard and you've just tried to wage war on the entire universe, who's enslaved my friends, who's tried to kill me, who's cannibalized my TARDIS...I LOVE YOU, MAN!"

Bah.

Why wouldn't they have shot the Master? He's murdered and enslaved people, and the Joneses know it; they saw it and experienced it. I'm amazed that of ALL THOSE PEOPLE with guns on the Valiant, it was Lucy who did it.

Maybe if Blink and The Family of Blood and Utopia and The Sound of Drums hadn't rocked so hard, it would have worked. But it was a major, major disappointment. And those last 20 minutes, with them running into peoiple who don't remember them...bleh.

And the Titanic crashing through the TARDIS? A world of "No."

Incidentally, since the rest of the world rewound back, there should be another set of Martha's parents and another Tish back in London right now...

[wwetuesday.livejournal.com]

No, because they were all on the Valiant when the paradox happened.

That's why Martha *HAD* to be on board when the countdown finished, because she was there when the paradox started, she had to be there when it ended.

Time reversed back to the point where the Paradox Started, so there should be no two of Martha's family.

[wildcard9.livejournal.com]

Due to lack of time, I have yet to see any of series 3 yet. But I have downloaded all the episodes. When I take time off next week, I will be catching up on both Dr Who and Stargate SG-1 this season. Now I just need to get the Confidentials (have not grabbed any this season yet).

[kender42.livejournal.com]

I.... I dunno. I thought that hpw they got the Doctor back was really lame, but overall, I liked it.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

My watching-group had been expecting him to take some of Jack's surplus life-energy (with a kiss, probably) and restore himself to youth.

[kender42.livejournal.com]

Now *that* would have been a good choice. :) (And hilarious!)

[celisnebula.livejournal.com]

I was kinda disappointed in the episode.

The last two have been so utterly awesome, the set up of the Master, the capture of Jack, and the fact that everything is up to Martha was so awesome.

There was so much potential there, and it feels as if it was completely wasted.

It felt as if RTD just had to up the stakes to an utterly ridiculous level, and of course, solve it with an equally ridiculous resolution. The old school Master was creepy, and he took his time to totally mess with the doctor, but this new one, man if feels as if they were just shoving the evilness that is the Master down our throats.

Seriously, having the Master convert billions of people into maniacal homicidal spheres (basically single-handedly), and then take over the entire Earth, and almost wage war on the whole entire galaxy and in just a year? I mean, Hello! Even the Master, as industrious as he is, can't pull that out of his arse that fast.

Then having the Doctor revived and rejuvenated by the collective telepathic power of the human race? I mean, WTF? And the whole flying around like the Blue Fairy, is just - man I can't even explain how awful.


Yeah, the scene where the Doctor forgives the Master was moving, but RTD wasted what could have been a meaningful character development moment for the Doctor.

Then to have the Doctor pleading with the Master to regenerate and then weeping over his dead body? Ew. We are talking about a genocidal maniac who has caused untold suffering to billions here, talk about seriously squick! It doesn't matter if the Master was the only other Time Lord - there is no canon support to even suggest that the Doctor would be that sort of gushing sentimentality, especially not after the way the Doctor acted in The Family of the Blood.

Don't even get me started on the CGI little Yoda version of the Doctor!


The good things about this episode:
Jack = The Face of Boe - utterly awesome!

Martha, kick ass and hard core - wonderfully done.
e house. Always. Except for her postscript at the end. Gnaaaarrrh!

The last scene of the red fingernails... what do you wanna bet that the Lucy Saxon (abuse notwithstanding) has a way to bring the Master back via his ring?

[wwetuesday.livejournal.com]

I think it was all part of the plan.

Master fails, Lucy has orders to kill him.

Lucy retrieves the ring to give The Master a new life with a new host body (shades of the old Master)

[underpope.livejournal.com]

That was brilliant. After an episode like that I always feel like I want a cigarette.

There are always going to be people who are disappointed with endings like that; it's kind of hip, after all. Personally, I was pleased with how the various storylines were brought together and resolved; just this afternoon I was bemoaning the fact that the show had just sort of left the Utopia storyline hanging without resolution. The way it was tied in was excellent. I gathered that the Master had not created the sphere versions of the last humans himself; I figured that they had done it on their own, and he had merely shown them that they could still escape the end of the Universe as they had so desperately tried to do.

I loved Simm's portrayal of the Master. Mind you, the Master was always one of my favorite villains, but the way he was portrayed by Delgado and Ainley always sort of made me squirm; at times, they were so over the top that I was almost embarrassed. Oh, and don't get me started on that stupid Tissue Compression Eliminator; I was thrilled that it did not make a return to the series.

The Master was never a subtle villain in his schemes and his intents. He was out for domination and destruction, and never made any bones about it. At the end of the Fourth Doctor story "Logopolis", when he said, "Peoples of the Universe, attend to me carefully. I am the Master and you will serve me," was there every any doubt that they were trying to get as much evil out of him as possible? Simm played the Master almost as a dark mirror of the Doctor, and that was perfectly appropriate.

I hope that Martha will show up some more. I liked her; she kicked butt as the Doctor's companion, and gave him what for in a way that few companions ever did. I was annoyed that she seemed to become infatuated and fall in love with the Doctor so quickly, but this was a minor issue.

All in all, it was brilliant.

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

OMG they TOTALLY ripped off ROTJ!!!!!1!!!!One!!1!

*g,d,&r*

[almagill.livejournal.com]

ROFL

It was a bit, wasn't it? I half was expecting to see The Master appear as a blue glowy at the bonfire.

Roll on Christmas though.

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

Really, the only parallel was the funeral pyre - it's not as if The Master was The Doctor's father, or mentor, or anything - and the funeral pyre is much more universal than ROTJ.

Mostly, I was making a joke at the expense of those in fandom who are bitching that this episode was a ripoff of ROTJ.

[almagill.livejournal.com]

True, funeral pyres are a fairly standard motif, but what caught my eye was the 'blue glowy' Doctor and his telekinetic grabbing/flicking away of the Master's lightsaber, sorry, screwdriver.

Or was it a gun by that stage? Heh, I wasn't taking notes really, I was just enjoying the show.

Oh, and Yoda was what age? "When 900 years old you are, look as good you won't"...

Though to be honest you could probably pick out supposed parallels between this last story arc and pretty much any hero villain story. IF you were of a mind to do so, of course.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I could have dealt with the ripoffs of Superman, Star Wars, and Harry Potter if they hadn't done that to Martha. There has never been a companion in the history of the show who was so constantly told "you're not the one I love even though I always love the one I'm with."

The one who saved the world and the hero, but was never thanked, never told she was good enough.

The one who left to find her own destiny and respect, the same way Mickey had to leave to find someone who respected him because God knows, the Doctor and Rose would use him to do their work in saving the world, but would never treat as fully appreciated team members.

When it happened to one black companion, it was distasteful. Now that it has happened to both black companions, I'm sick. I'm really, honestly, nauseated at the message between the lines that neither of the black characters (who often got menial labor to do) was told how worthwhile they were instead of while being told all the time that the blessed white blonde girl was more beloved by the Doctor than either of them.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Actually, given how openly and well I think they've treated black-white relationships the past few seasons, I don't think that's it.

The Blessed White Blonde Girl, i.e., Rose, is being portrayed as, perhaps, the first one who ever really got through the Doctor's emotional defenses. (Sara Jane may have been the first.) And she was portrayed that way before we got Martha -- indeed, when we thought Donna (from "The Runaway Bride") might be the new companion.

The Doctor's whole riff is, "I'm immortal, I can't bear watching those I love age and die". But he's not the only one. Everyone else in the universe goes through that, to one extent or another. And I think he's beginning to realize that, and to regret it.

And I think he didn't want to just "rebound" to Martha.

And, the Doctor has thanked Martha, on numerous occasions, including this one (at 47:22, if you're looking at a download).

More to the overall point, there has never in this history of the show before Eccleston been so strong an overarching storyline as there has been with this one. They never really got into questions of How Much Did/Might/Could The Doctor Love His Current Companion. So it's much more noticable now.

As for the "ripoffs", I think those are much more universal than all that. While watching it, I knew some people would equate the pyre scene with ROTJ, but I was thinking more in lines with the Vikings, or the Ring Cycle.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

And, the Doctor has thanked Martha, on numerous occasions, including this one (at 47:22, if you're looking at a download).

He thanks her occasionally, I stand corrected. But he never says he could have done it without her. He never apologizes for living off of her work in the teens and the 60s.

He does look her in the face and say "Rose would know what to do." Then he stays silent when she says "I always felt second best."

No matter what sort of arc they were going for, the message loud and clear is that the Doctor just doesn't love the smart black woman the way he loved the plucky white girl he lost. (Despite losing so many other companions over his lives, some quite permanently to death.) Since he freely offered lily-white Donna a berth on the TARDIS before he even met Martha, the racial aspects just can't be overlooked.

Rose, is being portrayed as, perhaps, the first one who ever really got through the Doctor's emotional defenses.

Do you really think that he had no emotional connection to Romana, the only one of his kind to travel with him? To Susan, his own flesh and blood? To Leela and Ace, his students? To Sarah Jane, who he is setting up as his successor on Earth? (She gets her own series, have you seen Invasion of the Bane?)

He loved Rose and she was worthy of it, but the theory that she meant more to him than any other companion not only disses Martha, but all the ones who came before. I liked Rose a lot, but I can't put her in that position, because I liked too many of the other companions too.

[ladysmith.livejournal.com]

No comments on the spoilers. Just a question. Where did you download from?