... But Why?

[filkertom]

Okay, on the previous thread gridlore hit the button that I think leads to The Big Question. I do not ask this in frivolity or mockery, because, seriously, it's I think a huge core question.

Those of you who are sports fans: Why are you sports fans? Not the athleticism, either. Specifically, the importance of regional teams winning and losing. Mets vs. Cubs. Mets vs. Yankees. Notre Dame vs. Michigan vs. Michigan State vs. Appalachian State vs. Florida State.

Why are sports important to you?

Comments

[hms42]

When I worked in the Bronx (about 6 blocks from Yankee Statium) the only concern was if they were in town or not, to dodge the crowds going to/from work.

I now only care about the teams being in town if I have to dodge the traffic while enroute to a con. :)

Harold

[liddle-oldman.livejournal.com]

I'm guessing it's another way to tribalize. Otherwise who could possibly care?

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

See, that's just it. ANYONE could possibly care.

Who cares about seeing some particular band play? Who cares about ballet? Who cares about filk?

People care because it touches them, somehow, on some level.

[eleri.livejournal.com]

Bingo. Connecting to something on that level is a potential for all human beings (why, I'm not sure, that's an area I'm just now exploring.). Some people do it with sports, some with their jobs, some with music or art or cars or...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yes. WHAT level?

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

What level touches you when you hear a concert?

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Well, there is a difference between following a sports team and following other, non-competitive pursuits. I can't remember the last time two rival ballet troupes had an organized rumble resulting in a clear victor. I'm not sure how you'd organize filkers for Olympic competition, but the idea alone is intriguing enough to filk, itself.

What I fail to understand is how the performance of a particular team in competition over another means anything to individuals who are not on one of those teams. Call it a tribal identity if you like, but the warriors of the tribe? They're not as loyal to the tribe as the fans are, in most cases. They're drafted, they're under contract. Viewed as tribal warfare, modern major league athletes are mercenaries taking the battlefield for whomever is currently paying them to compete. The fans don't really do anything to contribute to the team, either. You can argue that the fans contribute spirit to the team, but how is that measurable or quantifiable?

My problem with sports is this: it's given an inordinate amount of social importance when compared to other equally pointless ventures. Chess, role playing games, video games, these are all endeavors that have similar results to a group of people getting together to play a football game or kick around a soccer ball: nothing but basic enjoyment. As a business, sports are a big money source, yes, but the social value given to sports is far out of line with its intrinsic rewards and returns. High school football players are treated like demigods so long as they succeed while members of the debate team don't even stand out from the herd. It's irrational.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

You're assuming rationality from people. Don't. People aren't entirely rational (and I'm actually glad of that). We have all kinds of emotions and stuff. We hold grudges, fall in love, get scared of creepy-crawlies, lust after women we've never met and cry at movie scenes. We tell stories around the campfire and then huddle awake in our sleeping bags half the night, jumping at every little sound. And,yeah, we get excited when the teams we identify with (for whatever value of team and identify you want to use) do well.

(Sad to say, as someone who was on the debating team and was in the chess club and was, for a long while, an intensely active RPG'er -- when you come down to it, watching someone else roleplay or play chess or debate? Boring as hell ;) )

Not everything that people do is measurable or quantifiable, never has been.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Then what is the point in discussing it? If your argument is that this is unquantifiable or cannot be understood if you do not already understand it, then there is nothing else to say about it.

I don't accept the premise that there are things that cannot be understood, either through qualification or quantification. People could and did argue that the origins of life could not be known, that the nature of the structures of the universe could not be understood, and yet we still have sciences dedicated to those very questions. Sociological and psychological study can and is done on sports and the sporting sub-cultures in society. The question of what value there is in being a sports fan can be explained. It's just a question of when we can answer the "why."

(Of course, one might make the argument that we'd have more people qualified to consider the question if we spent less on school sports and more on academics, but that's sort of wrapped up in the whole question at hand, isn't it?)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

As someone who was on the chess team and who was, for a long while, an intensely active RPGer... it was and still is as exciting and involving as ever. However, playing is indeed a different experience than watching... but, because I have played, I have an intimate touchstone for relating to them.

You ask above, "What level touches you when you hear a concert?" Everyone experiences music differently. The listening experience is an intensely personal as the writing experience, and a song or a style or a few random notes will hit different people in different ways.

You are, I think, missing the point. Or at least a point.

All those activities can be brought down to some point of personal involvement. If you are watching a chess game, you are watching a struggle between two men, two philosophies, two whatever. Watching an RPG means watching a story unfold. It may be good or bad, or told well or badly... but it's a story.

Further down, wrestling is invoked. Why do I (or did I) like wrestling? Because it has heroes and villains and athleticism. It told a story.

The only sports team that I follow with any regularity is Notre Dame football. I check their scores, because I want them to lose, because they are as fucking arrogant about their inherent superiority as any team I have ever seen, and especially over the last ten years it has seemed not only undeserved but delusional on their part. Fuck 'em.

It's not like I don't understand winning, losing, tribalism, and all the other aspects of this. Except on at least one level, I really don't. And I wasn't asking for a full-blown societal explanation. I asked: Why are sports important to YOU? twfarlan's second paragraph in the comment above yours touches on what I feel pretty well.

[tollermom]

I used to volunteer at the International Ballet Competition in order to get in to watch the show. Trust me... ballet can be intensely competitive.

[nomaddervish.livejournal.com]

My problem with sports is this: it's given an inordinate amount of social importance when compared to other equally pointless ventures.

Yes... In high school, the thing that finally put me over the edge from being merely apathetic towards sports to actively loathing them was when I realized that if Bob can quote ERAs and RBIs and a dozen other stats on a baseball player from memory, all of them up-to-date to take last night's game into account, that's perfectly normal and acceptable, but if I know that a longsword does d8 vs. small/medium and d12 vs. large creatures, the same as it has for years, then I'm an obsessive freak. If Bob gets together every week with his 6 friends to watch The Game on TV and get drunk, that's healthy social activity, but if I'm playing Shadowrun every week and actually interacting with my 6 friends, we're socially maladapted hermits and "need to get out more".

Makes me sick...

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Awhile back, I ran across one of those build-your-own motivational posters for gaming:

"Fantasy Football: Dungeons and Dragons for the people who beat up the people who played Dungeons and Dragons."

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I actually think it's "why is ANY field of human activity important?"

Seriously. People go to sporting events. They go to the opera. They go do loud rock concerts. They go fly fishing. They go to museums.

In all of those cases, there's something about the field of endeavor that touches that person, gives them some kind of thrill. Me? I don't get sports, for the most part (although I can watch almost anything if I'm at the stadium). I don't get opera, either. Or most musical theater.

Come to think of it, I don't get escargot or rare steak, either.

The thing is, having some sort of affiliation makes it more exciting for the person; this is "our" team that's winning (or losing). It doesn't need to be local (but it's a heck of a lot easier to root for the home team, especially if you like going to watch the games).

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Noooo, no, no, no. Look at my comment above, but you're dancing all around it without actually looking at it: Why is it "your" team? Why do you care at all?

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Let's rephrase Tom's question a bit. When's the last time you heard of people getting into an actual, physical fight over which band was better? What makes the difference between that and soccer riots?

[briansiano.livejournal.com]

There's a chapter in Barbara Ehrenreich's marvelous _Dancing in the Streets_ that bears examination on this. I'll let you read it and make up your own mind on the matter. The books worth reading on general principles anyway.

[alymid.livejournal.com]

To start off, I am not part of the demographic that you are questioning, I rarely if ever watch sports - and when i do its generally not a team sport, more likely gymnastics or ice skating.

But it would seem to me, that it is for the same reason that people pick a side/affliate and cheer for anything. That one is raised up in their own mind or spirit by affliating with a side. I know that I feel better when something I affliate with does well or puts on a good showing in public, whether its politics or folks who knit.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

Why do you like wrestling?

I like watching food ball like I like watching a great miniature's battle. The motion, the strategies, the counters, the motion of it is fascinating.

I like the competition, the struggle.

I watched the "Detroit Grand Prix" on Sunday, enjoyed every minute of it (My girl Danica ROCKED, Dario got screwed and TK vulched perfectly). I like the technology of auto racing, the interplay of driving and machine. Course I grew up in a auto racing family to it is in my blood.

So, when it comes down to it, its the escapism, the conflict, the movement, the thrill of victory; the agony of defeat.

Just wait till next summer. I'll be GEEKING made over the Olympics.

[archiver-tim.livejournal.com]

If I asked you why I should buy a Tom Smith CD instead of a WormQuartet CD would you compete? If I was to ask a rabid fan of each would they compete?

Are we likely to root for our champions. Do our champions enjoy being the chammpion?

-Ryan

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Coming soon to a pay-per-view web site, the awesome FUMP SMACKDOWN!

WATCH your favorite filkers battle it out in a steel caged con stage!
THRILL to the explosive lyrics as they throw pun after deadly pun at each other!
EXPERIENCE the brutal rhymes as four filkers fight it out until only one is left standing!
EXPLODE with fannish excitement as your singing champion takes on all comers in the final Death Match!

Tickets on sale at all convention outlets. We are not responsible for any hearing loss or injury due to excessive puns. Your sanity is already in question just for attending this show. No refunds.

[cjfringe.livejournal.com]

It's actually already been done, and Tom Smith has been kicking some kiester.
Check http://wwetuesday.livejournal.com/ for the videos.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Naw, that's wrestling, not filking. I haven't heard a single song in any of those matches.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I would say, "Buy whichever one appeals to you more musically or lyrically. I think they're both good, buy both". You can come up with reasons. Again, I'm asking: Why does Team X scoring more points than Team Y in a game inspire such tribalism?

[tollermom]

Many moons ago, I actually played competent tennis, so I'll admit to still finding enjoyment in watching a particularly well-played game (this afternoon's Haas/Blake match at the US Open was a classic... the Haas won in a tiebreaker after five sets in a nice combination of guts and finesse). In general, I prefer sports in person rather than on TV, but since dashing off to Flushing Meadows wasn't in my budget for this weekend, I had to get my tennis fix on TV. Saturday, though, Sally and I caught an Indians game. Baseball is an excuse to get out in the sunshine and have a beer with friends... sometimes you even get lucky and the game is good. Since I haven't followed the Indians at all, I found myself yelling for whoever was making the best plays at the time, which I think drove some of the folks around us nuts, but whatever... I appreciate a well-turned double or a well-placed hit, no matter which team it comes from (and I want a Louisville Bats t-shirt because I'm entertained by their logo).

Of course, the fact that I was a sports photographer and then sports editor when I was fresh out of college probably has something to do with all of this. I still have a strong preference for high school and college ball over pro sports and minor league over majors, and I dislike pro basketball with an intensity that may get me kicked out of Indiana one of these days.

There's an art to sports. And like any other art, it can be an acquired taste. Do I follow certain regional teams? Meh... sometimes. Obviously, it's trendy to be a Colts fan at the moment and I actually bought a Colts shirt to wear to Chicago after the Colts beat the Bears. Does it make a huge difference in my life? No. For college ball, I still tend to follow my old favorite (that other MSU... Mississippi State), 'cause Daddy went to State and I grew up 30 minutes from Starkville and have been a Dawgs fan since before I could walk. Since I got out of the newspaper biz, I've tended to pull for the pro teams that contained graduates of the various teams I used to cover, so I was a Packers fan 'cause I knew Brett Favre when he was in college, and I'll pull for both Manning boys 'cause their Daddy was one of the first quarterbacks whose name I remember hearing about when I was a kid and he was the quarterback at Ole Miss.

I guess I'm not really answering your core question, 'cause for me it really is more about the athleticism or the art of the game... my ties to particular teams tend to be either nonexistent (the Indians/Bats game) or based on loose associations like having known players (or their parents... geez I'm getting old) before they "made it big". If I find myself watching a game where I have no ties to either team, I tend to pull for the underdog, and I have a strong preference for individuals or teams who don't act like brats or thugs.

[cjfringe.livejournal.com]

I don't get it either. But then, I don't really get the mob mentality at rock concerts either, until I go to one and get swept up in the excitement of seeing the band perform live. There's something about a group like that all cheering for the same thing that I think drives people.

Otherwise, yeah, I really don't get sports obsessions.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

There was a scientific study published earlier this year (which I can't find anywhere, all of my searches turn up hundreds of hits that have nothing to do with it) that showed there is an actual physical response to watching sports. It's like how you start drooling when watching a cooking show, or can almost taste what the Iron Chefs are creating. When you see someone doing something physical, your mind tends to recreate that motion subconsciously as if your body had done it. This is why it's easier (for most people) to learn by watching. When there is conflict involved the sensation is stronger, thus a football player kicking a winning field goal elicits more reaction from the audience than a ballet dancer executing a particularly savage battement. Of course this effect varies from person to person and is influenced by society, personality and experience. If you played baseball and never played football, you might get more of a reaction watching the World Series than you would with the NFL playoffs. This is also why we enjoy a good fight scene or thrilling car chase in a movie.

As for the societal aspects, I think you can explain most of it as "Culturally Okay" to vent your stresses, anxieties and sense of adequacy in this manner. Society says it's okay to go full gonzo crazy when your team wins, so it's a pressure release valve. This permission the culture at large grants to major sports is not entirely logical, as it's entirely respectable to strip down to your shorts and paint yourself the team colors for a big game but you will be considered an out of shape pathetic loser should you actually try to form a team and play every weekend. In other words, it's okay to watch, but not to perform. This is most likely due to the idolization/royalty mentality we tend to employ in our endeavors. We want the best of the best to do it so we don't have to spend the time doing it ourselves. Thus we have outrageously paid athletes/CEOs/government officials doing things that we could, and should, be doing ourselves but they have been placed so high on the pedestals that what they really do is a mystery for the common person.

However, there is always a number of subcultures in any society that don't fit the mainstream, and they respond to a different stimuli. If they're lucky their society will allow them to find others and form their own communities, but to be fully accepted, as in a role-player being the same socially as a football fan, takes a lot of people a lot of time, but it can happen. Just look at the rise and fall of classical opera, and the fall and rise of popular music.

So first thing we got to do is elect a president who will establish The Secretary of Fandom as a cabinet position.

[sazettel.livejournal.com]

I'm a baseball fan. I've been following the Tigers since the All Star break with increasing alarm. They are, alas, playing more like the Tigers I grew up with than the Tigers of last season. This keeps up we're going to lose all our really good players and be right back at the bottom again.

Why do I care? Part of it is the performance. I love baseball in and of itself. I love the history and the romance, the altheicism and the tradition of it. As others have pointed out, it is for me like going to a concert or the theater. I like the chance to cheer and to be entertained by the display of skill. These days, it's also a way to share things with my son, who's favorite player is Magglio Ordonez, and who had a great time at the game we went to.

Now, why are the Tigers my team, whereas the Cubs are my mother's team and always will be, while my dad roots for the White Sox? If you're inclined to follow it, the sports team becomes part of your larger identity. It doesn't make sense, but it is. I'm a Michigander. It's where I've spent most of my life. I like MIchigan, I enjoy the place, battered and bruised as we are by our various troubles. So, part of my enjoyment and pride in my home state is being a Tigers fan. It provides connection with the wider community. It's an interactive experience to go to the games. It's a way to meet and connect with other Michiganders when I travel (and I have done this, in NYC and in New England. You can almost always start up a conversation about baseball.) My mother, OTOH, grew up in the shadow of Wrigely field, and part of her pride and identity as a Chicago person is to be a Cubs fan. It's a connection with her childhood, at which time it was a connection with her friends and her wider community. DItto my father who grew up on the other side of town.

In short; it's not really about the team. It's about the community and connection created around the team.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'm gonna argue here. I grew up in Detroit, and I remember being caught up in the excitement the year the Tigers won the series. But I haven't lived there for a long time, and (1) I wouldn't even begin to call the team "part of my larger identity", and (2) I don't think of any of the sports teams where I live now that way either. Nor would I ever even think of using sportstalk as a conversation-starter; when I talk to another Michigander, the first thing that tends to come up is fishflies!

You can create "community and connection" about anything. Why sports in particular?

[sazettel.livejournal.com]

"You can create "community and connection" about anything. Why sports in particular? "

Why not sports? It is a contest. There is drama. There are characters. There is history with the individual, the family and the community. There are all the aspects of a good play; pathos, vengeance, comedy, villiany, heroism, and if you're really lucky a surprise twist at the end. If you are so inclined, you can chew over a game the way you chew over a favorite book or TV show.

I do not agree with the billions spent on sport arenas in communities that actually need schools, clinics, affordable housing and local business incentives. But sports are really no tougher to understand than any other sort of fandom. And the enthusiasm for regional conflicts make just as much sense as people who are fans of Klingons or Romulans vs. the Federation.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I'm a baseball fan because I learned the beauty of the game from my grandfather and my mother. I'm a Mets AND Yankees fan because my family were Mets fans (having been jilted by Da Bums from Brooklyn) and my friends were Yankees fans. It being simpler to root for both (and in those days, except for a few years such as 1969 and 1973, BOTH teams bit rocks), I did.

I root for the Knicks, similarly, having learned to love basketball. I adored the Nets when they were in the ABA; when they sold Dr. J down the river to Philly as the price of admission to the NBA (along with moving to That State in the Wild West :-) I dropped them from my dance card.

[poltr1]

For me, pro sports was a way to spend time and bond with my father, my uncles, my cousins, and friends at school. I didn't know anyone in town who wasn't a Bills (football) or Sabres (hockey) fan.

I still root for my hometown teams when I can because it's a connection to my home town, one I cherish.

I used to like pro basketball, until John Y. Brown moved the Buffalo Braves to San Diego back in the late 1970s. Now I don't care for basketball, unless it's March Mayhem.

[ladysoapmaker.livejournal.com]

I am a sports fan. I'm not a rabid sports fan. If I miss a game on the tv, it's a "okay so who cares" moment. If I really need to know the score I either jump online and get the score or wait until the paper comes the next morning.

now as to why I'm a sports fan is I enjoy playing sports. So when I can see a game, I like to see a well played game. I personally love going to live games. (can't afford to go too many). There is something about the energy in the stadium, ballpark, soceer field that is exhillerating. This past weekend there was a soccer tournament hosted. I personally know very little about soccer. but I enjoy watching the kids play because they enjoy it so much, and for the most part they are good sports about losing. It's the parents I have trouble with. I've told my husband that if I ever become one of "those parents" that I wasn't allowed to another of their games.

[ladysoapmaker.livejournal.com]

I think I'll add some more comments after reading some of the posts.

I was a quiet, shy, introverted, nerdy, geeky kids, but I could play sports. I wasn't popular but kids knew me and knew I would play the best I could so we could win. I was nice knowing I could be counted on that way.

Now I am a Cleveland Browns and Indians fan. I couldn't tell you where the Indians are right now in the standings and I think the Browns recently had their season opener. I grew up rooting for both teams. I joke that I didn't know there was another football team in Ohio until I was in 3rd grade, but it's true. My dad did not indoctrinate us kids but I wasn't aware that Cinci was in Ohio until about 3rd grade and that they had a football team. Baseball, yeah, I knew there were other pro teams, we went to the Clippers games all the time. Around this time, the Dolphins then Da' Bears were the popular teams to root for. I never did even, then I wasn't going to be a fair-weather fan. Good or bad, come hell or high water I'm a Browns fan. I joke that for 3 years I wore black every Sunday during football season. I can understand why Art Modell did what he did but I haven't been able to forgive him yet. There is something about being a Browns fan that when the team is doing no so good make you want to root harder for them.

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

Me, it reminds me of my Grandpa. He watched football while I was a highschool comicbook-collecting nerd in the late 70's. I remember him rooting for the 49ers, moaning about their incurrable fumbilitus, and kvetching about the way the Raiders always incurred penalties. When I went off to the Air Force in '81 I remember being in Plattsburg AFB, NY when I heard the Niners won the superbowl. "The *SAN FRANCISCO* 49ers?" I asked, unbeliving.

That was the beginning of the Bill Walsh, Joe Montanna dynasty, and it made me proud that my local-to-home team had done so well. After I got married and came back home to California, I spent a few years watching football with hubby, asking questions, learning the rules, and tracking who won and who lost thru the seasons. I don't keep track so closely anymore, but I still root for the Niners even when they didn't have such a good decade. But slowly they've been rebuilding themselves back up into decent performing territory. Yeah, Niners!

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

liddle_oldman has what I think is the critical point but leaves out the reasoning. If you think tribalism is all bad, there's not a whole lot I can do to convince you it is. But I can, I think, explain the factors that form these tribes.

The classic New York sports rivalry, for a long time, has been the Mets versus the Yankees. And before that, when there were no Mets, it was the Dodgers versus the Yankees.

The image, usually, has been roughly this: The Yankees are a rich, old, respectable in that old-fashioned way baseball team. They're from the Bronx, the rich parts. The Mets/Dodgers are from Queens/Brooklyn. Middle-class. Less cultured, less moneyed, grubbier, dirtier. (The Capitol Steps had a great song on this theme, titled "When You're A Met.")

So the Mets/Yanks rivalry largely becomes a stand-in for some of the class issues in New York.

The Red Sox/Yankees thing is old enough that it's steeped in the local history of Boston and New York, the more intense city rivalries, and a good deal of Great Depression-era escapism.

And the college level is completely full of college pride. No surprise--everything about almost every college tries to instill pride, if for no other reason than the alumni societies wanting proud alumni giving money.

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

The Yankees are a rich, old, respectable in that old-fashioned way baseball team. They're from the Bronx, the rich parts. The Mets/Dodgers are from Queens/Brooklyn. Middle-class. Less cultured, less moneyed, grubbier, dirtier.

And it is interesting to note that, back when Metro NYC has three major league baseball teams, almost the reverse was true for the Yankees vs. Giants rivalry: the (baseball) Giants represented *old* money whereas the Yankees were the middle-class and "new" money (Yankee owner Jake Ruppert had made his money in beer).

And the Giant-Dodger rivalry was the fiercest of all three.

[denali1.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for anyone else, only myself.

For all of its faults, I love my home state (Tennessee). If it hadn't been for my wife (cathain), I would have never left Tennessee. Yes, it has its flaws and dumbarses, but every state does.

I've always had an interest in sports, mainly baseball, football and car racing. I like the competition and atmosphere. It's not like going to a movie, where to me it just seems like you're sharing space with 50-100 people. It's more like sharing the moment with a few thousand people.

I'm not very close to many people, but it gives me the feeling of being close to many people. Even if it's only for the length of one game.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Can't speak for anyone else, but I made a conscious decision to become a Cubs fan. (In my defense, they were winning at the time.) For me, it was partly a desire to understand how the game worked, and partly searching for a source of adrenaline that didn't involve a deadline. Not being sports-inclined myself, the only competition I do involves seeing how long it takes to finish work. It was a way for me to learn about a world I had no connection to -- one of the reasons I don't get football is that I have no allegiance to any one team, beyond the allegiances of my friends.

Other than that, it's fun to get a chance to yell and scream and forget about decorum for a few hours, because if they don't win it's a shame etc. It's fun to realize that you sort of understand the coach's strategy, or that you know exactly why your team is losing. (Well, okay, the last isn't always so much fun, but I'm used to it. Like I said, Cubs fan.)

[sophia9847.livejournal.com]

For me, it's a family thing. Both parents were first generation college students, and both went to University of Oklahoma. I followed suit in my own due time (though in all fairness, for the full ride scholarship and study abroad opportunities as much as anything). My dad is a die-hard Sooner fan of the "bleeds crimson and cream" variety, and while I'm not particularly into football (or any team sport really), I watch when I happen to be over there on a fall saturday afternoon because it's a daddy-daughter bonding experience.

Why they're important to Dad? I don't know that I could speak for him fully, aside from the fact that he was a nerd when it was less socially acceptable to be so, football fandom was a way for him to assimilate, and Sooner Football in particular is a socially acceptable way way for him to express his loyalty and deep emotions about the school that gave him an academic scholarship and propelled him (and by extension his kids) into the middle class "intellectual elite". I think that's why it inspires such tribalism, especially in this state--following your team allows men to express their emotions in a socially permissible manner.

Plus, seeing "your guys" spank Texas or hoist a national championship trophy is just a visceral thrill. Sorry I can't be more analytical than that.

[purpleranger.livejournal.com]

They aren't.

[madmanotl.livejournal.com]

It is ironic to me that I am replying on my father's 80th birthday:

He was a broken down athlete who coached semipro football and is very intense about all sports, especially football. Idolising him as a child, I played the same way and now treat sports similarly.

When I was not playing, I would watch any and all sports. When I was a 6 year old on Christmas Day 1971, there was a playoff football game that went into overtime and after 4+ hours, I became a Miami Dolphins fan. The following season, they went 17-0 and I now am one for life. Many things in my life are based on that team and players from that year and since then I have enjoyed and suffered their highs and lows since. I do follow local teams in other sports but nothing equates to the emotions I get from the NFL.

In baseball I grew up a south side Chicago White Sox fan. When I decided to try a radio station dating service, I heard a profile of someone interesting who stated she was a Cubs fan. After talking to her, I considered her an afterthought because of her baseball allegence but decided to go on a date with her anyway. 27 months later, we were married ironically on a day that the White Sox beat the Cubs.

The dates the teams played against each other were difficult for us until we got the internet and started playing fantasy sports. Now individual players rather than teams matter, at least for the regular season.

Baseball playoffs are a different story. In 2005, I decided to get my injured knee operated at that time so among other things I could stay up late to watch the White Sox playoff games without having to work the next day and my wife either on purpose or subconsciously made it as difficult on me as possible. Less than 48 hours after surgery, I had to drive to the store for food parking in the handicapped lot walking with crutches and driving an old person cart in the store.

Five days after surgery, I drove 30 miles to celebrate the American League title and the next day drove back and with the stitches in my knee waited in line to get the shirt I had wanted to get for many years.

When they won the Series title a two weeks later, she was curled up in bed and I did not want to celebrate since I knew she was hurting inside.

I could type for hours about my sports player and fan history. Though I now enjoy things that are fun, there will always be a part of me that kicks in on weekend afternoons in the fall.

[madmanotl.livejournal.com]

Yes, I wear a Dan Marino jersey in this, my default LJ icon though the name Jake Scott (super Bowl 7 MVP) means more to me as #13 for the Miami Dolphins.

Also, the nickname "madman" was given to me by my team mates after I started a bench clearing brawl while as a 21 year old, 170 pound kicker in a tag football league, flattened a 250 pound lineman with a forearm to the chest during a play over a cheap shot earlier at my knees.

Why? For my case, that is how it has been all my life. I believe that is why comedy music appeals to me so much. Since I am tone deaf, I can not usually determine any mistakes other than words and for me it is just fun and not competition.

[dandelion-diva.livejournal.com]

I don't know. My mom's a football fan, my Boompa was a sports fan who absolutely loved football, and I love football and really enjoy watching basketball and hockey (especially if I can get to the hockey game). It's just, part of me, like reading and watching old movies.

I only "hate" other teams when they're on the field playing against the team I'm rooting for. I want my team to win, and am momentarily bummed if they don't, but it doesn't rule my life. And I definitely don't want anyone permanently injured because of the game. I don't know why some people take it so utterly seriously. I assume it's 'cause that's the only or one of the only passions they have. Or they've completely bought into the hype.

[filkferengi]

Baseball. At first, it was osmosis, absorbed from ze spouse [who made a marathon drive to Cooperstown to do the Hall of Fame one crazy weekend in undergrad & still gets goofy grins talking about it, 20 weeks later], by the "one flesh" rule. Then it was the story, the whole history of it. Then it's all the media, from the gleefully excruciating movie when the Babe bellies up to the bar & orders milk, to Gary Cooper as Gehrig, to John Goodman as the Babe, to "Field Of Dreams", to all the sf references: DS9, Space: Above & Beyond, B5. Especially, there's the ST:TNG episode when they thawed out the country singer who said, "After 300 years, the Braves are finding whole new ways to lose." Opportunities for snark are endless. Similar to fandom, there's a sense of inclusion, of amused, sympathetic comprehension of obsession as portrayed in movies like "Fever Pitch."

As long as there are an infinite number of ways in which the baseball or the wrestling [costuming, coiffing, choreography, acting, scripting, etc.] are bad, we will never run out of things to talk about, which is one of the secrets to a happy marriage.

[ldwheeler.livejournal.com]

As far as team affiliation/identification goes ... to me, anyway, it's just a matter of choice, an arbitrary one at that.

I like the game of baseball in and of itself -- I just find the whole setup, the diamond, the rules (as stepped in minutae as they can get), the historicity, the meld of strategy and skill and athleticism it offers (it's not just a game for the big, like football, or the tall, like basketball). It helped that I played baseball when a kid (our little league teams were named after the Six Nations tribes and their neighboring allies and enemies; I was on the Hurons and we were pretty hapless back then) and was a pretty fair hitter and fielder in church-league softball. I just buy into the whole mythology of baseball, while realizing that, yeah, it's a mythology. But one I enjoy on a bones level the way I don't enjoy basketball or football or soccer.

While I can enjoy a well-played game on its own merits, it's a competitive sport, which means it's more fun if you have a vested interest in one side. Well, most of us don't have family members on the Padres or Brewers, or own stock in the Mets or Nationals, or were named after Ted Williams or Kirby Puckett or, heh, Catfish Hunter. So we make a deliberate, conscious decision to "adopt" a team. We pretend to have an affiliation, a connection, to be a citizen of Red Sox Nation or what-have-you -- we know that, ultimately, it's just a game and we aren't really a part of the Phillies family and many of "our" guys will end up "their" guys next year -- we do it just because it makes it more fun.

For me, it's the Red Sox, since the early-mid 80s when I was 12 or 13 or so. They were my then-best-friend Calvin's favorite team -- I didn't really have a favorite at the time, though the local minor-league team was long affiliated with the Orioles -- and I came to enjoy watching 'em: Fisk, Remy, Boggs, Rice, Evans, the fabulous Yaz in his career's waning years, and eventually this new hotshot kid Clemens. And it's an association/affiliation I've stuck with. I know, I realize that on one level it doesn't really mean anything. My attachment to the Sox is nothing, nothing like my attachment to my faith, my family, my friends, my nation, my chosen communities such as filk/fandom, etc. It's just an added something, a background/backdrop that adds a jolt of fun into life. As I mentioned on the previous thread, if it were ever to interfere with or obscure any of the truly important spheres of my life, that would be a problem. And yup, it seems that for a number of people it does.

Eeeeks, that was long and hifalutin.

I also agree with filkferengi about baseball's being richly mined for cultural references, from Pride of the Yankees to Bull Durham to, heh, The Naked Gun to Stephen King's The Girl Who Loved Tom Gordon to John Fogerty's "Centerfield." (And leave us not forget Jonathan Coulton's "Kenesaw Mountain Landis," which some cynics say is fictional.) Heh, it's something that George Will and Mario Cuomo and Fidel Castro all have in common.

[james-the-evil1.livejournal.com]

Because their lives are hollow & empty so they attach importance to these insignificant contests so they can bask in pseudo-glory when "their" boys win while simultaneously avoiding dealing with the real world and its problms?

My guess, anyway :D

[james-rayner.livejournal.com]

I grew up in cleveland.

Normally, this is enough, but for Tom's sake - I'll elucidate.

When we grow up, we like to take sides. As children, we prefer to form sides with those who agree with us. As we grow up, we identify first with our families - They are our blood, and usually (Not always, but usually) We will stick with our families because they are irrevocably on our side. Many youngsters begin to identify with their schools, or cities, banding together against outsiders in small-town competetive sports - Often baseball, Football, and Basketball. We cheer for these people because we know them, or our friends know them. They go to our school, and by a sort of contamination, we feel that what they do reflects upon us - If they do well, they must be going to a good school with other good students, which makes us good.

We grow up and go to colleges. Many colleges encourage a sense of Camraderie, of School Pride. The big schools - Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, Florida, And so on - use their sports as their showcase. The sports, in essence, are the front porches of these major colleges. Ohio State is not the biggest college in the state simply by dint of being near our capital - It is massive because of it's nationally famous football program, Which in our already programmed minds, translates to a better quality school. There isnt anything particularly rational about this, it's just the way we grew up (Or some of us.) - Either from school sports, or in the case of myself, growing up in a family where Sunday's during the fall months were big things, getting together with the family members, putting on the brown Jersies - Or if it was one of those seasons, The Red and Silver - and cheering and jeering.

But why are we fans?

One could say many of us see our teams as countries (Indeed, some take it to the extreme - see The Red Sox Nation) and we are it's citizens - It is a way for us to seperate ourselves from one another, while simultaniously bringing us together - We exult in the rivalry, the competition - the knock-down, drag out slugfest of NFL Football - The bad calls, the incredable midair catches, the brilliant plays, the legendary games. In Cleveland, Sports is part of who we are as Clevelander's - We are united by our eternal search for victory - Our long walk in the desert of defeat in every realm of professional sports - and in other cases, united by our good natured acceptance when we suck.

Why am I a fan? Why does my heart beat fast when there is 3 seconds on the clock, down by 5 in the 4th quarter at the opponents 20? I dunno. I know I enjoy it. I know that it's exciting, and interesting, and mentally stimulating as I see all of the little internal strategems.

Why do I cheer on Ohio State, and boo Michigan at every opportunity? Because my family has strong roots in the college, and those roots, like all sorts of other wierd family traditions, are handed down, grandfather to father, father to son, and so on. And vice versa for the femmes here.

It's as impossible to comprehend why people such as I enjoy watching rivalries and professional sports as it is to comprehend why religions fight, why nations fight wars, and why the world isnt at peace. They are, at their core - one and the same thing, even if the consequences for the others are nowhere near the consequences of the rest.

That being said.
Go Tribe - All the way to the World Series!
Go Browns - Lets have a winning season for gods sakes!
Go Cavs - LeBron! LeBron! LeBron!
ANd Go Bucks - O-H!

[james-the-evil1.livejournal.com]

As an add on to my comments previously about how much I disdain sports, here's a story about a guy in Oklahoma who literally had his scrotum torn off because he DARED to walk in to a bar wearing a shirt with a Texas team logo
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20728210/