This is why these words, true as they are, powerful as they are, repeated over and over again, now only make me angry. Nothing will be done. He may leave office and enter the golden years of being a former president, assuming he doesn't find a way to abolish the laws that prevent him staying on till he dies. But he'll never be impeached. He'll never even be touched. And the next election, barring a miracle, will be just as rigged as the one that got him in, and the people who are actually giving the orders will still be giving the orders.
Keith tells the truth, but the only people who are hurt by it now...are us. Because nothing will happen.
And it is hurting us. I'm sure of that. I'm used to the idea that my phone is probably tapped. That my internet communications are read. That my name is on a couple government lists.
It used to be I just assumed it because of the fact that my family and many of my family's friends were military.
Now I assume it because I have the gall to speak my mind and write my congresscritters expressing my disapproval of the current government and its policies.
If I didn't censor my writings and speech, I'd probably be in prison by now.
Remember that Big Brother has a limited number of men to throw around. Tapping a phone constantly is a bother, and while they might get a chuckle or two out of "He's telling her again that he'll leave his wife", it would get old to listen in month after month on 3.2 million people's phones (a membership number that I pulled off of MoveOn's website). So ask yourself, "Do they have a reason to worry about you more than they worry about every member of MoveOn?" If the answer is no, then you can bet that they don't devote the manpower to tapping your phone.
The internet is a different matter. You can tap the internet with computers, who never get bored reading over "I'll leave her next week, I promise" mail while looking for "then I blow up the empire state building" mail. Computers you can buy with money, and money is something that the government can throw at problems. This is why the FBI wants to have all the email providers give them access to all the email, so that they can programmatically analyze it.
About the only thing that reach Bush now, and stop him, would be a bullet... and that'd be no damn good at all, because the neo-cons would make some kind of holy martyr out of him and use that as justification for even more of the same.
Lets face it, your country is about as screwed as it can get and not be an obvious dictatorship... and at that I'm not so sure it isn't heading that way.
No intimation of violence, no hint of it. NOTHING. EVER.
Sometimes I talk about wanting to punch somebody in the face. I hope you all know that when I get that mad, [a] I'm deeply fucking pissed and [b] I don't really mean it. Raising my voice and pounding my fist on the wall is as far as it goes.
I WILL not tolerate even the slightest hint of actual violence, even as a bitter joke, and especially at the fucking president. That's a felony, and of all the things our lousy-ass government does wrong, they certainly pounce on threats to Dubya.
More to the point, I don't wish him dead, I don't wish him ill. I wish him gone, preferably to have a long and healthy stay in The Hague for what I perceive as his many war crimes. But that's another trial, for another day.
I have not deleted your comment. If I see another like it, by anyone, I will.
Did I not say that it would be pointless? That violence wouldn't solve the problem?
Perhaps I should've just said the guy is legally bulletproof... because nothing legal can touch him while he's in power, and it's doubtful even afterwards... and nothing illegal would do the job either!!
Gah... read what I wrote, not what you think I said.
Under this climate Tom is right to be concerned. We're all "enemy combatants" under the current government if we step out of line. Thus even our tongues are silenced by fear...or at least most.
I notice that you said "your country". I hope that our insanity does not spread to whatever corner of the world you live in. It's bad enough we're infected here in the US...
I live in the UK...and if it wasn't for the fact that most of the population is so bloody apathetic here, it'd be just as bad... As it is, we've more surveillance than the bloody Big Brother House.
I'm making my plans to get the hell out of here just as soon as I can.
What I read was about stopping the President of the US with a bullet.
I understand that you are sympathetic. I understand your metaphor. You need to understand that the current US government is "run" by a pack of power-mad, skittish sociopaths, whose only interests are self-protection and self-aggrandizement. They can and they have hauled people away for the vaguest threats, or non-threats, or for wearing the wrong T-shirt.
Whatever you feel in that regard, please don't say it on my LJ.
You didn't say "this". You said "him". You said "About the only thing that reach Bush now, and stop him, would be a bullet...". That constitutes a threat. This isn't a difference of semantics -- at least, not to a semi-competent prosecutor.
Hmm, you're right, slip of the fingers. I'm sorry. Although I would have hoped that the second sentence after that would make it clear that I wasn't considering this option.
As I said, my meaning was that legal challenges won't stop him, and illegal action wouldn't have the affect hoped for.. ergo not much damn point really to either.
Anyway, I think it would be best if this subject was dropped, all things considered. Please delete this or not as you see fit.
All is cool. And I think I will not delete this, for what I think is an extremely good reason: These are not good times we live in. Our "leaders" are power-hungry, greedy, and above all crazy. We must be aware of their paranoia at all times, because any of us is at risk from them at any time.
Oh, and you know what's about the worse aspect of this fucked up mess?
That fact that even here, even among ourselves, Hel's brazen tits! even talking to ourselves, we have to watch what we say for fear of that 4am knock on the door and the guys in the dark shades and suits!
Saying what we think, no matter what it is, shouldn't be a felony! Especially when I don't even f**king live in your bloody puritanically obsessed gulag of a country!
But yeah, we must not wish the untimely death of The Glorious Leader, in case some no-neck pea-brain thinks we're being serious. [which we're not].
Oh, and you see that icon there? Steaming Freedom video... aka the last, best and only free voice on the net... I'm bloody well going to take it down tomorrow. Because it's not true anymore. Not here anyway.
WE'RE NOT TALKING TO OURSELVES. WE'RE DOING IT ON THE INTERNET. IN A VENUE THAT WE KNOW IS MONITORED BY PEOPLE WHO FOLD AT THE LEAST HINT OF ANY DAMN THING. Didn't we all just go through this on a much smaller scale with the nonstrikethrough, or whatever it was called, brouhaha?
For fuck's sake, no, we're not free anymore, and haven't been for several years. At the very least, not about discussing that particular subject.
And, again, even metaphorically, I don't wish anyone violence. I left your comment specifically so I could make that point.
But yeah, we must not wish the untimely death of The Glorious Leader, in case some no-neck pea-brain thinks we're being serious. [which we're not].
In this administration or in any of them in recent memory (Clinton, Bush1, Reagan, and yes, Carter) the boys from the Treasury Dept (Secret Service) have no sense of humor about this sort of thing. They take all threats as serious until shown otherwise. After the Kennedy assassination and then the attempt on Reagan they really came down hard on that sort of thing. You can make all the Men In Black comments you want, but this is not unique to the current presidency.
In any case, if I'm posting here I'm doing it as a guest in Tom's little personal space, and as such will abide by his rules.
Careful - that's a trip to Gitmo if interpreted incorrectly...
However you are correct that we're getting closer and closer to using the last "box" in the chain. :-(
("There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." - Edward Howdershelt. For those that don't know the quote.)
Word. I wish it wasn't. Had a power outage the other night, during which I was soggy with relief to find out the cell phone towers were still *working.* *That's* how much a lot of us are expecting an October surprise. You know, the kind where a lot of people die. I effin' hate the way we find ourselves living under this regime. IF it was profitable, if it made money overall, if it was even remotely smart for a section of the markets, I'd understand these guys doing this stuff. But it's not even good business, it's not even profitable to the rich old white guys sitting at those stooopid fundraising dinners. These guys are even lousy at lining their own pickets, truth be told--not nearly what some of the smart cookies would be able to do. I mean, hey, plus not getting caught at it. These guys are so dumb they keep doing it, they keep getting caught at it, and they just keep staring into the headlights like a drunken redneck at a stripper convention.
Indeed, some of us have noticed that in Black*water USA, the President effectively has a private army. My best friend thinks he's intentionally trying to bring about Armageddon. The notion sounds both far-fetched and entirely too plausible.
We have counted on the law to put a period to even the most inept and destructive of administrations. But those currently in power are essentially lawless, recognizing no authority but their own twisted agenda, whatever it is. And when they are already ignoring the clear requirements of the law on the flimsiest of possible excuses, what is to prevent them, with their own army answerable to no one else, from ignoring the requirement that their administration come to an end on January 20, 2009? That is what I fear most.
Thank God under all Her many names that at last someone else has spoken up about my own deepest fear. Most of my friends don't take me seriously, saying, "Nahh, it'll never happen, the military wouldn't tolerate it, even Bush isn't that stupid, yadda yadda yackity-smackity." But why should we not expect such a thing from a president and administration who have already demonstrated such deep contempt for other important parts of the Constitution and federal law? Why is it so far-fetched to imagine Junior barricading himself in the White House on 1/20/09 with his own private army and declaring himself President-for-Life? We already live in a banana republic, and have been since at least January 2001; this would only be confirmation of that suspicion.
I'm still waiting to see if he creates some fictional "terrorist attack" to suspend elections. That will be the telling point for me in that I will then have to choose either fight or flight.
Were I without a small child the choice would be simple...
W and his neonuts have to pass the straight-face test. They have to be able to stand up at the podium and say their message with a straight face. That is the way that the Hannity's and the Limbough's of the world can echo it to the people who listen to them. Thats how they get enough people believe them or at least believe that they are sensible and acting in good faith, and that's how they keep their power.
But that means that Bush has do things that he can make sound reasonable. Perhaps I am underestimating his spin machine, but barricading himself in the White House doesn't begin to pass the straight-face test for me.
Why is it so far-fetched to imagine Junior barricading himself in the White House on 1/20/09 with his own private army and declaring himself President-for-Life?
Because he doesn't want to be President-for-Life. Bush is trying to run down the clock. He's doing the best he can to stay on until November, at which point everything becomes the next guy's problem.
I suspect - and certainly hope - that you are right. But it still says a great deal about the current mood that the question is being discussed seriously at all. I can't think of a previous presidency in which anyone even considered the possibility that the president might not step down when it was time.
No, and that isn't what I meant. The fact that people are discussing bespeaks the depth of mistrust of Shrub et al in a significant portion of the population. It is "gut feeling" I spoke of, not rational analysis.
Actually I heard quite a bit of talk from people on the right who were convinced Clinton would pull something like that. And now the same sort of tinfoil hatters (just at the other end of the political spectrum) are at it again.
Neither are the people I'm talking about. While they are probably of a different political persuasion than you, they would be among the first to hit the streets if Bush were to do this.
One of the interesting things about being a Moderately Liberal Conservative(tm) is that I hear the same complaints from different groups of friends who hold otherwise opposing viewpoints.. Some of the most vocal complaints I've heard about the Patriot act etc.. can be summarized as "Do you REALLY want this law in effect when Hillary gets elected? She'll sodomize us with it." Trust me, there are a LOT of conservatives who do not like Bush and his policies.
...what is to prevent them, with their own army answerable to no one else, from ignoring the requirement that their administration come to an end on January 20, 2009?
An army is made of people. If Blackwater's employees are loyal to their paychecks, and nothing else, then nothing can prevent a dark future like this. But if their loyalty to other things - family, God, the constitution, whatever - is stronger, then the moment the order comes down to secure anybody as President-for-Life, Blackwater has two roads it could walk. Either it will split, with some people refusing and some going along, or the entire company, from the CEO on down, will say, "Fuck you, sir."
Maybe I'm foolishly optimistic; I believe that splitting and outright refusal are the likely results.
I keep thinking that the only thing that will get through to Congress is a general strike. If every single person who thinks the government should impeach Bush and Cheney went on strike, we would paralyze the entire country. At the moment it seems to be the only possibility of a voice we have.
But I don't see it happening. I truly fear for my country.
Problem is, it would only destroy the blue states. Which means all the big cities would have enormous riots, martial law would be instituted by the kind of people who suspend all dogma when you shove something shiny in their face, and then the cities would crumble. And all the red-staters in Jericho-esque small towns that never even HEARD of water would say, "Hey, we were right all along, fart a-hyukle!"
If you need help keeping your sanity, just do what I do: remind yourself that for now, at least, there is NO DRAFT. And that if there ever is, the revolution will come. It will come from all those who love this country and hate what these bastards are doing to it (I CAN call them bastards, right Tom?) And that revolution will be too much for even THIS administration to handle. I believe this to be true above all else.
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branchandroot
(no subject)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:59 am (UTC)Keith tells the truth, but the only people who are hurt by it now...are us. Because nothing will happen.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:13 am (UTC)It used to be I just assumed it because of the fact that my family and many of my family's friends were military.
Now I assume it because I have the gall to speak my mind and write my congresscritters expressing my disapproval of the current government and its policies.
If I didn't censor my writings and speech, I'd probably be in prison by now.
Manpower
Date: 2007-09-05 03:29 pm (UTC)The internet is a different matter. You can tap the internet with computers, who never get bored reading over "I'll leave her next week, I promise" mail while looking for "then I blow up the empire state building" mail. Computers you can buy with money, and money is something that the government can throw at problems. This is why the FBI wants to have all the email providers give them access to all the email, so that they can programmatically analyze it.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 11:05 am (UTC)and that'd be no damn good at all, because the neo-cons would make some kind of holy martyr out of him and use that as justification for even more of the same.
Lets face it, your country is about as screwed as it can get and not be an obvious dictatorship... and at that I'm not so sure it isn't heading that way.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 01:10 pm (UTC)No intimation of violence, no hint of it. NOTHING. EVER.
Sometimes I talk about wanting to punch somebody in the face. I hope you all know that when I get that mad, [a] I'm deeply fucking pissed and [b] I don't really mean it. Raising my voice and pounding my fist on the wall is as far as it goes.
I WILL not tolerate even the slightest hint of actual violence, even as a bitter joke, and especially at the fucking president. That's a felony, and of all the things our lousy-ass government does wrong, they certainly pounce on threats to Dubya.
More to the point, I don't wish him dead, I don't wish him ill. I wish him gone, preferably to have a long and healthy stay in The Hague for what I perceive as his many war crimes. But that's another trial, for another day.
I have not deleted your comment. If I see another like it, by anyone, I will.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:11 pm (UTC)Perhaps I should've just said the guy is legally bulletproof... because nothing legal can touch him while he's in power, and it's doubtful even afterwards... and nothing illegal would do the job either!!
Gah... read what I wrote, not what you think I said.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:23 pm (UTC)I notice that you said "your country". I hope that our insanity does not spread to whatever corner of the world you live in. It's bad enough we're infected here in the US...
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:36 pm (UTC)As it is, we've more surveillance than the bloody Big Brother House.
I'm making my plans to get the hell out of here just as soon as I can.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:02 pm (UTC)I understand that you are sympathetic. I understand your metaphor. You need to understand that the current US government is "run" by a pack of power-mad, skittish sociopaths, whose only interests are self-protection and self-aggrandizement. They can and they have hauled people away for the vaguest threats, or non-threats, or for wearing the wrong T-shirt.
Whatever you feel in that regard, please don't say it on my LJ.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:15 pm (UTC)But the rest of what you said was right...
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 05:04 pm (UTC)As I said, my meaning was that legal challenges won't stop him, and illegal action wouldn't have the affect hoped for.. ergo not much damn point really to either.
Anyway, I think it would be best if this subject was dropped, all things considered. Please delete this or not as you see fit.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 05:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 05:36 pm (UTC)http://nimitzbrood.livejournal.com/97849.html
Please feel free to delete this link if you feel it's inappropriate.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:20 pm (UTC)That fact that even here, even among ourselves, Hel's brazen tits! even talking to ourselves, we have to watch what we say for fear of that 4am knock on the door and the guys in the dark shades and suits!
Saying what we think, no matter what it is, shouldn't be a felony! Especially when I don't even f**king live in your bloody puritanically obsessed gulag of a country!
But yeah, we must not wish the untimely death of The Glorious Leader, in case some no-neck pea-brain thinks we're being serious. [which we're not].
Oh, and you see that icon there? Steaming Freedom video... aka the last, best and only free voice on the net...
I'm bloody well going to take it down tomorrow. Because it's not true anymore. Not here anyway.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:06 pm (UTC)For fuck's sake, no, we're not free anymore, and haven't been for several years. At the very least, not about discussing that particular subject.
And, again, even metaphorically, I don't wish anyone violence. I left your comment specifically so I could make that point.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:37 pm (UTC)Sheese, calm down mate.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 04:14 pm (UTC)In this administration or in any of them in recent memory (Clinton, Bush1, Reagan, and yes, Carter) the boys from the Treasury Dept (Secret Service) have no sense of humor about this sort of thing. They take all threats as serious until shown otherwise. After the Kennedy assassination and then the attempt on Reagan they really came down hard on that sort of thing. You can make all the Men In Black comments you want, but this is not unique to the current presidency.
In any case, if I'm posting here I'm doing it as a guest in Tom's little personal space, and as such will abide by his rules.
BryanTheTokenModerateP
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:19 pm (UTC)However you are correct that we're getting closer and closer to using the last "box" in the chain. :-(
("There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order." - Edward Howdershelt. For those that don't know the quote.)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 03:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 05:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 07:15 am (UTC)I wish it wasn't.
Had a power outage the other night, during which I was soggy with relief to find out the cell phone towers were still *working.*
*That's* how much a lot of us are expecting an October surprise.
You know, the kind where a lot of people die.
I effin' hate the way we find ourselves living under this regime.
IF it was profitable, if it made money overall, if it was even remotely smart for a section of the markets, I'd understand these guys doing this stuff. But it's not even good business, it's not even profitable to the rich old white guys sitting at those stooopid fundraising dinners.
These guys are even lousy at lining their own pickets, truth be told--not nearly what some of the smart cookies would be able to do. I mean, hey, plus not getting caught at it.
These guys are so dumb they keep doing it, they keep getting caught at it, and they just keep staring into the headlights like a drunken redneck at a stripper convention.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 01:31 pm (UTC)We have counted on the law to put a period to even the most inept and destructive of administrations. But those currently in power are essentially lawless, recognizing no authority but their own twisted agenda, whatever it is. And when they are already ignoring the clear requirements of the law on the flimsiest of possible excuses, what is to prevent them, with their own army answerable to no one else, from ignoring the requirement that their administration come to an end on January 20, 2009? That is what I fear most.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 01:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:26 pm (UTC)Were I without a small child the choice would be simple...
Straight Face Test
Date: 2007-09-05 03:10 pm (UTC)But that means that Bush has do things that he can make sound reasonable. Perhaps I am underestimating his spin machine, but barricading himself in the White House doesn't begin to pass the straight-face test for me.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 05:45 pm (UTC)Because he doesn't want to be President-for-Life. Bush is trying to run down the clock. He's doing the best he can to stay on until November, at which point everything becomes the next guy's problem.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 08:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 09:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 09:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 02:46 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 03:14 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 01:32 pm (UTC)One of the interesting things about being a Moderately Liberal Conservative(tm) is that I hear the same complaints from different groups of friends who hold otherwise opposing viewpoints.. Some of the most vocal complaints I've heard about the Patriot act etc.. can be summarized as "Do you REALLY want this law in effect when Hillary gets elected? She'll sodomize us with it." Trust me, there are a LOT of conservatives who do not like Bush and his policies.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 01:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 09:05 pm (UTC)An army is made of people. If Blackwater's employees are loyal to their paychecks, and nothing else, then nothing can prevent a dark future like this. But if their loyalty to other things - family, God, the constitution, whatever - is stronger, then the moment the order comes down to secure anybody as President-for-Life, Blackwater has two roads it could walk. Either it will split, with some people refusing and some going along, or the entire company, from the CEO on down, will say, "Fuck you, sir."
Maybe I'm foolishly optimistic; I believe that splitting and outright refusal are the likely results.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-05 02:25 pm (UTC)But I don't see it happening. I truly fear for my country.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 02:58 am (UTC)If you need help keeping your sanity, just do what I do: remind yourself that for now, at least, there is NO DRAFT. And that if there ever is, the revolution will come. It will come from all those who love this country and hate what these bastards are doing to it (I CAN call them bastards, right Tom?) And that revolution will be too much for even THIS administration to handle. I believe this to be true above all else.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 03:01 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-06 04:23 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-09-08 08:07 pm (UTC)