filkertom: (Default)
[personal profile] filkertom
I think I finally nailed how to describe it.

I've been talking about it a lot, thinking about it a lot, since Dragon*Con. My frustration at the disrespect filk gets has been growing, even as I recognize that on some levels there is at least evidence as to why it might get that disrespect. But the thing that has really made me crazy is how elaborate the attempts to explain what filk is have become. Everybody, including me, tries philosophical bases, examples of songs that might be filk if they were done in fandom, blah blah blah.

There is fan fiction.

There is fan art.

Filk is fan music. Period.

As with fan fiction and fan art, some of it is at a professional level. And some of it is not. For there is an added dimension, an extra skill, not needed for fan fiction and fan art: Fan music must be performed. And fandom, being composed primarily of social outsiders, is already at a disadvantage at something most people find uncomfortable at best. This is why the filk community is so accepting, so polite.

If you are coming at filk from outside the filk community, it is natural that you will gravitate towards the works of more talented musicians, singers, and songwriters, in exactly the same way that you would prefer the books of writers you like, the paintings and sculpture of artists you like. All we ask is that you judge each on its own merit, exactly the way you would any other artistic creation. Don't like a particular song, or singer? Wait five minutes.

Thoughts?

(Edited to tweak the subject line. I think following the comparison of "fan fic, fan art, fan music" with "therefore, filk is the music of fandom" is the refinement I'm looking for.)
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(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] que-sara-sara.livejournal.com
Someone once told me that ideas are entities until themselves, rather like a virus. That they will invade different brains and perpetuate themselves until they find someone to birth them into the universe.

You have just stated one of the random thoughts that were running through my mind on Sunday night as I drove home from Ohio. But I don't remember if I had this one before or after I talked to you.

Wow.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kilbia.livejournal.com
Congratulations on finding the sound bite. I am not being sarcastic here - nowadays it really does need to be summed up in five words or less or people won't give you a chance to explain further.

I guess you find that most people who complain about filk are primarily conflating it with parody and griping about that? For those who say that "filk isn't real music" because they're convinced it's parody, I would be inclined to lead with an opening salvo of "Well, then fan fiction isn't real literature and fan art isn't really art, 'cause they're also variations on existing works." It'd be an even better warning shot if you happened to have some good names to drop in there - so-and-so isn't really an author, and so-and-so isn't really a painter, y'know.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kilbia.livejournal.com
To clarify: I am very much aware of how much parody is rampant in the filk community. I just think an attack response is more effective on that type of griper than trying to share examples of good filk which aren't parody.

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lordavon.livejournal.com
*applause*

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:40 am (UTC)
mdlbear: blue fractal bear with text "since 2002" (Default)
From: [personal profile] mdlbear
I usually define filk as "the folk music of the science fiction and fantasy community" -- it's not, in my mind, in the same category as "fan art" and "fan fiction", because "fan *" generally excludes "pro *", and a good chunk of filk is at least moving in the pro direction.

Filk is the kind of music you'll find at an SF convention, just as SF and Fantasy art is the kind of art you'll find in the convention art show, and SF and Fantasy movies are what you'll find in the film room.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:53 am (UTC)
mdlbear: blue fractal bear with text "since 2002" (Default)
From: [personal profile] mdlbear
(Ask three filkers and you'll get at least five definitions.)

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:41 am (UTC)
batyatoon: (music: SCORE!)
From: [personal profile] batyatoon
Works for me! I think I'm a start using that.

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nagasvoice.livejournal.com
It may not be a pleasant aspect of the analysis, but sometimes the problem isn't with you, or the properties of your work, or indeed anything to do with you.
It's all about Them.
As an example, not quite a side-trip, here:
One of the comics folks posted an interesting sample critique of how pretty blatantly sexist writers were belittling and erasing the contributions of one particular woman character simply because this character was a woman. Whether or not you agree with how she applies the analysis in this case, it certainly shows how a fearful sub-group tries to dominate a minority of some sort by making work go away as if it never happened. IMHE, most of the time such folks don't even notice they're dong it, except the irritation level sounds pretty high.
That post is here if you're interested, it has further links.
http://kadymae.livejournal.com/463358.html

I've been thinking there's been way too much divide-and-conquer put-downs going on all over the place in this country, it's been spread all over into fandom like a virus, and I don't like it one bit.
Since the subject was on my mind (more serendipity?), I was wondering if (in the context of filk) it was important to consider the source of the criticism. Where is the pressure coming from? Who's giving you the sense you're being belittled, and why are they doing it? What are they getting out of it by putting down filkers?
And at the risk of sounding offensive, how pathetic is it that to feel better about themselves, the only folks left for them to put down in this manner are those of us living at the furthest, wackiest, most creative end of the bell curve? They have to attack folks forced onto the thin ende of survival on all those conventional measures of social skills, size, health, and intelligence?

good questions

Date: 2007-10-03 05:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheryl-fl-filk.livejournal.com
You pose good questions, nagasvoice. To them, I'd add: Why are you letting someone else's opinion make you feel belittled?
A filkroom discussion of fannish ranking I recall set us below gamers but above furries -- this determined by a fellow filker who also defined himself as a furry.
As one of the off-key, enthusiastically amateur filkers, I've never noticed others making fun of my choice of fandoms. Perhaps this is because I rarely roam other parts of a convention, and so I don't hear who's putting down whom. (I took the time to sign up for a Live Journal account just so I could comment here, and I'll likely go back to lurking after Tom's moved on from this topic.)
Tom, you'd mentioned after Dragon*Con that you felt filkers were picked on in the bumps and other DC-TV segments. The one bump I saw that mentioned filkers was about how we were the favorite type of fans. True, anyone not into filking could choose to take it sarcastically, but I cheered when I saw that text. I took no offense in it.
"Fan music." I like your definition, Tom.

Re: good questions

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Re: good questions

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(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joshuwain.livejournal.com
I've often wondered if my former landlord's reaction was symptomatic of something broader within the fandom. He's not terribly socially adept and cringes when anyone sings ... in TV shows, musicals, and especially live. To him, it's embarassing to be exposed to a live performance. I think, in some ways, it's being exposed to someone else exposing themselves in a very personal way.

Perhaps I'm over-thinking the plumbing, here (it wouldn't be the first time) but I suspect that those who are uncomfortable with even mild public displays of affection (holding hands, a chaste kiss in a restaurant, etc...) are the same people who react badly to filk ... not because it's filk, necessarily, but because it's public.

At the same time, I know other people who react badly to what they perceive as the "low quality" of filk music. To them I usually remind them of all the good times they had singing songs around a campfire in Scouts or with family. This is the music sung around the campfire of fandom; it has its own rules and is largely devoured and enjoyed on the merits of the community it represents and speaks to. It's not letting lower standards slide, it's embracing something that embraces us.

...If that makes any sense at all...

Yours,
Sylvan (Dave)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-04 02:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] andpuff.livejournal.com
This is the music sung around the campfire of fandom...

Thank you.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:46 am (UTC)
per_solo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] per_solo
We touched on this over the weekend, and I agreed with you then, and now. :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wildcard9.livejournal.com
Would this make dementia a more polished subset of filk? The pro and semi-pro performers? I know that due to filk's bad reputation people are trying to get the term dementia more known as a replacement.

I do like the definition of "filk" being "fan music" so long as the caveat that the term "fan" here can include pros as well (some defintions I have seen of fan fiction and fan art specifically exclude anyone who gets paid for their work).

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 03:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
No. Not a subset, but a separate set with a decent amount of overlap. Dementia is somewhat vague in its boundaries, but the emphasis is on comedy. The term, after all, refers to Dr. Demento. Worm Quartet and Flanders & Swann are both in the purvey of dementia, for example. Stan Rogers' "White Collar Holler" is both filk and dementia, but most of his other stuff is straight-up folk. ("Giant" is definitely filk.)

Fanfic writers and fan artists can and do turn out professional level work. As [livejournal.com profile] huskiebear pointed out in a phone conversation a little while ago, part of what makes something a "fan" work is that the writer/artist/musician didn't come up with the original -- e.g., a Harry Potter fanfic, no matter how well written, uses a universe and characters created by someone besides the writer. The more you can break away from using someone else's works, the more "professional" you become.

The idea of calling filk "fan music" is in fact to allow all levels of musical talent. It shifts the emphasis from the performance to the music itself. Janis frickin' Ian has been showing up at WorldCon filks; that's as professional as you get.

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:51 am (UTC)
ext_32976: (Default)
From: [identity profile] twfarlan.livejournal.com
I would suggest that there are two skills at work here, filk writing and filk performance. There are people who write filk lyrics who aren't necessarily themselves performers. They can take music written by others and devise lyrics that scan, their work can be amusing or thought-provoking, but they do not possess either the voice or the presence to present that work to an audience.

Filk performance would require a different set of empathetic skills than that needed for playing to more mainstream audiences, I would think. You have to know the material. You don't dare mispronounce a word of Klingonese if you've dared to use it in your lyrics; your audience will know and will not be merciful about it. On the other hand, if you love the material, you need the skills to bring that to your performance. If you can, your audience is prepared to hear it, are actively looking for it, and will thank you for it. You are one of them. You aren't selling them what you think they want to hear. You're sharing something with them, something they share with each other without a soundtrack: thoughts about the fandom. Jokes, new perspectives on the material, bad puns, and variations on or additions to what's already there; like with fanfic, not everyone will appreciate your particular contribution, but at least you're in there and trying. You get it. You grok.

My perspective, anyway.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
That's pretty much my point. What's been getting me is that all of filk, and all of the musicians in fandom, get dissed, sometimes by entire cons, because of the perception that they all suck.

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Date: 2007-10-03 02:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allandaros.livejournal.com
I am not entirely sure about this definition. By this token, stuff like "Fire in the Sky" wouldn't qualify as filk (if I'm reading your definition right).
I don't think it's fair to stretch "fan" to cover space exploration, when we wouldn't call a painting of an Apollo launch fanart.

And while I'm just someone who's listened in on the bare fringes of filking, I can't see how you can have a definition of filk without the space music.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] allandaros.livejournal.com
Also, I think you're spot on with regards to the performance aspect. I know that I've listened to mp3s of certain filkers and kinda shuddered - I liked the lyrics, but I didn't like the song as music. I feel that in performance this would (possibly) be mitigated, where the enthusiasm and love for the material has a chance to shine through.

Unless, of course, the song was really bad. :)

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Date: 2007-10-03 03:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] voiceofkiki.livejournal.com
One of the things I never got is: Why are we hated so? Even my non-filking geeky friends don't understand it. Before I ever went to a filk circle, I heard all the "stay away from *those* people" sorts of things, but I never got a specific as to why.

As for the definition: Best I've heard yet. I just wrote in my journal about a classmate asking me why, since I am actually a pretty good singer/performer, would I choose to do filk as opposed to "real music."

Filk is real music. It's music with far more love and humor than you'll hear on any radio station. And, yes, parodies do take talent. Writing original versus parody lyrics is the same difference in skill set as writing prose versus writing haiku. When you must have only x syllables per line and x lines per song... well, I challenge those of you who haven't done it to try and then come complain about how that doesn't take talent.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cheryl-fl-filk.livejournal.com
Are we hated, or feared, VoK? peteralway makes the point below that filking involves a commitment of time, and that would require someone unfamiliar with the rules of a filkroom to be willing to overcome a fear of the unknown, sit down and listen to the participants. As an intense introvert, I chickened out of entering a filkroom for two or three years in a row, because people would look at me, greet me and try to talk to me -- or worse, say something like, "pick, pass or play!" when I had no clue what that meant. I bought the series of Bayfilk tapes back in the '90s because I liked the music and the intelligence of the lyrics, and I didn't have to interact with strangers to enjoy it.
It takes courage to participate in a filk circle (or, perhaps, inebriation), especially when one knows talent is lacking. When I got to cons that had filk guests and concerts, I was much more at ease. (Love ya, Tom.)
When in a filk circle, I try to gently encourage the newbies -- be they first-time visitors or those who are working up the nerve to sing something original. Invariably, the talent of the singers amazes me. (As someone who's heard your own songs, VoK, I'm glad you didn't listen to your fearful friends -- you've got talent!)

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Date: 2007-10-03 03:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lukeski.livejournal.com
Finally, a definition of filk that makes me feel like I can comfortably tell people that yes, I am a filk artist.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 04:01 am (UTC)
ericcoleman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ericcoleman
A couple of random "oh my it's too late in the evening to comment coherently"

I think that is the perfect description of filk. That can encompass you, Luke, the lady singing the 27 verse song, me, Worm Quartet, Moonwulf, the kid in Tulsa who did White And Nerdy acapella (and nailed it) and anyone else. Filk is music for fans ... period. And fans are into a lot of stuff.

I think the thing I like about every filk circle I have been in is that they remind me of the "sings" that my Mom took me to when I was a kid. It was a bunch of people of varying talent all gathered to share music.

I appreciate everyone who sings in the circle. Some of them I may not like, but they are there for the same reason I am.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 04:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vettecat.livejournal.com
I think [livejournal.com profile] sdavido's definition in his thesis was "music produced by science-fiction and fantasy fandom."

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 10:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
I was trying to remember his phrasing. Part of this, though, is selling the notion to fans who don't get it, like it, or understand it, a surprisingly large contingent, I'm finding. Not to toot my own horn, but people tell me all the time that they hate filk, but they like my stuff.

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self-perception

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Re: self-perception

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my two cents

Date: 2007-10-03 04:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xthelonegunmanx.livejournal.com
This all sounds similar to discussions I used to have with different people about what was or wasn't punk rock, and that was an exausting debate to say the least. I've learned lessons from that debate that I think are relevent to this topic.

Wether music is concidered filk or parody or funny music, I don't know all the terms, I'm new to the whole genre, however, it's all music, and everyone has their own terms for different things. Not everything must be so specific. I used to debate the difference between Old school, new school, ska-core, OC, Punk Rock and Roll, Oi Boy, 3 Chord, Anarchist, Pop Punk, etc... It all really doesn't matter. It's just music and what matters is wether you as a person like it or not.

Now I've just started writting filk songs. I could make my own music, but I prefer to use other people's music. I just think it feels right for me, some won't like that, I can't control that. I have to make music that makes me happy. I also am not a good singer right now. I'm practicing and I think I could be a good singer in the future. I would very much like to perform my music. I used to love Punk Bands that featured people that didn't play or sign that well, because I thought that captured the essesence of Punk Rock best, but lot's of people hated those same bands, cause they weren't very good. That's just human nature and none of us can change that with any amount of debate. Some people will respect those with less performance prowess and others won't.

As for people disrespecting filk. I don't have enough experience at different Cons and Filk sings to comment but I can talk a bit of my experience at DragonCon. I attended one of the late night filk sings and I attended the Stargate Track filk panel. There were plenty of people singing in public that probably had no business doing so, I will probably fall into that has no business singing catagory, but what was so inspiring to me was that as bad as they might have been, they had a song and wanted to sing it. And I have so much respect for that. I saw several people sing songs and they didn't even play the guitar or any instrument, they were nervous as hell, yet they sang away as best they could and I thought it was awesome.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 04:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] partiallyclips.livejournal.com
I agree with most of what you've said here, Tom. Filk is fan music, by, for, and of fandom. And "fandom" includes the ancillary common interests of fans: from space exploration and computer science to chocolate and cats.

Dementia is comedy music and I don't think it has to be defined much beyond that. Strong interest overlap, but separate interests.

The only thing I find myself inclined to disagree with is your assertion that "Polka Dot Undies" would not work in a filk circle. I am totally going to do it at OVFF, just for that. :Þ

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 10:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
And if it works, I'll be proven wrong, and you'll have another song in the repertoire. :)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 04:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peteralway.livejournal.com
I'll just mention one reason why people might not respect filk. Because, as you point out, it involves performance, it also involves a commitment of time. You can go through an art show and ignore the stuff you don't like and take a few moments on what you love, and maybe take it home with you. For fanfic, you chose to read it or not in your own time.

For filk, if a song you don't like comes up in the circle, whether because of performance, writing, or content, you pretty much have to endure it for the full duration until something you like comes up, or you leave the circle.

This requires patience. It requires a willingness not just to tolerate the existence of the least talented of us, which is easy, but to invest considerable time listening to music you just don't really enjoy.

I accept the bargain. In exchange I get music I do enjoy, a chance to try my music, and community.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 05:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gavroche42.livejournal.com
Long before I began hanging out in filk rooms at conventions I was a regular participant in local open mics for poetry and music. I've been writing and performing poetry since the early 1990s - half comic, half political.

Well into high school I was teased for speech impediments, but in high school I joined the debate team, and actually won some awards for original oratory. I learned if I actually memorized something, and practiced it, my speech was clearer. But still its not perfect, and I remember being nervous when I first got on stage to read my poetry. I was sure I was going to be laughed at. But they don't care at open mics. Especially, since I'm told, some of my poetry is actually enjoyable.

But there are many people who won't go to open mics because they feel those who perform at open mics are those who can't get paying gigs. And while you can tell them a lot of near-professional quality musicians and poets without the marketing behind them can be heard there, they don't want to sit through the amateurs.

So it's not just the filk community. But I think the 'Fan Music' definition is a good one. As others have said there is professional fan fiction. Niven and Pournelle's Fallen Angels was Fan Fiction. John Myers Myers Silverlock was Fan Fiction. Peter David's Woad to Wuin has a good section of Lord of the Rings Fan Fiction parody included within it. One could argue that a fair amount of the work of They Might Be Giants is Filk. It's certain Fan Music.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 05:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] catnip13.livejournal.com
I'm wanting to second the notion that there are professional writers that write what is still basically fan-fiction for their own entertainment, as a writing exercise, or as a part of a tribute anthology. Heck, I'd argue that Star Wars and Star Trek novels are all, essentially professional fan fiction.

(no subject)

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From: [personal profile] per_solo - Date: 2007-10-03 08:57 am (UTC) - Expand

Parody confusion.

Date: 2007-10-03 05:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] peteralway.livejournal.com
Filk, the mass noun (listning to filk) and the adjective (filk circle, filk music), refer to a whole category of music. But I have noticed that filk the count noun (I wrote a filk of..., he's written several filks) seems to refer to a parody or parodies.

"a filker wrote a filk he played in a filk circle, and now he's big in filk"

Here "a filk" refers to a parody in the usage I have heard, but the other instances of filk don't refer to parody.

Similarly the transitive verb "to filk" seems to mean to write a parody, but the intransitive verb "to filk" means to sing in a filk circle.

"He filked 'Having my baby,' turning it into a spawn-of-Satan horror piece, and when he was done he went down to the main circle and filked until 3:00 AM.

The first instance of "filked" means he parodied. The second means he sang songs that may or may not have been parodies in a circle.

So there is an actual subtle use of the word filk among filkers that encourages the idea that filk is parody. Try to explain "A filk is a parody. Filks are parodies. Filk is not parody." or "Filking a song is parodying a song. Filking is not parodying."

Language is weird.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 06:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raven-ap-morgan.livejournal.com
In its essence, I agree with your summation - "filk" is "fan music", whether done at a amateur, semi-pro, or pro level.

When I first heard filk recordings, they were of very low recording quality, and I decided that were I to produce one, it would be of as high a quality as possible, just as if it were a non-filk recording. There is no reason why filk recordings cannot be as high a quality (technically speaking) as non-filk recordings, no matter what the particular style of the musicians on the recordings.

Raven

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 06:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] palenoue.livejournal.com
I used to think filk was serious celtic fan music, but still by fans for fans. Every time I walked past the filk room at a con or listened in for a few songs it was always celtic and always serious (sad serious, people were always dying and regretting). Not that there was anything wrong with that, they enjoyed it, I wouldn't think to diss it, but it wasn't for me. Never heard any of the humorous stuff until I discovered Tom in a round-about way. Since then, when someone puts down filk as something evil, I ask them why they think so and 9 times out of 10 it's because all they've heard was a few bad songs or bits of a performance where you couldn't understand what the singer was saying, or was told by someone else that it was bad. One quick mix CD of select filk from my collection is usually all it takes to get them to actually plan to attend filk at their next con. The tenth time, they're jerks, if it's not studio perfect it's beneath them.

So we just got to education the masses. Sing "Cthulhu Lite FM" next time you lunch at a crowded cafe, sneak "When I grow up" onto your business phone hold system, send a letter to the editor of your local newspaper with the complete lyrics of "Skullcrusher Mountain", and every email you send put a link to the Fump in your sig. That should raise awareness to filk.

As a general genre definition, Tom has it down just right. Any more elaboration should be saved for the sub-categories.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 10:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tarkrai.livejournal.com
I do feel that 'fan music' has been said before, but connecting it to 'fan art' and 'fan fic' in this way is a newish angle. :)

My definition has focused more on the community, rather than a definition for the external masses. As such, both fit. Fanfic has a very active community that hangs together. So does filk. So, yeah, it fits.

As to why we get maligned, I feel that this is a very simple thing. Fanfic and fan art are mediums that don't invade your space. You can choose to go to the Art show, or not. You can choose to pick up and read that story, or not.

Music is more intrusive. Yes, it can be isolated off into a room; but the fact is that we're making *sound*, and a space has to be *created* for us (as opposed to the Art Show, which is already there, and well, you can use the whole con to just talk about what you've read- it's lost in the general background noise). Others have to make space for us, whereas that isn't the case in the other fanacs.

So, in my opinion, we'll always have folks who just don't like us- because we invade their space. Not because we do so intentionally, mind you- but it's just a fact that has to be lived with.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
Excellent point. [livejournal.com profile] twfarlan asks above if fanfic and fan art are treated differently at cons, and they are. Fanfic can effectively be ignored as a category by conventions, or given a few panels and that's that. Fan art is in the art show along with pro art, and has to stand or fall on its own... but it can be simply bypassed. Filk makes a noise; people investigate noises. Once they realize the noise is supposed to be some form of music, they make the unconscious decision as to whether it's a kind of music they like.

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] quadrivium.livejournal.com
I spoke about southeastern filk music as a guest at a MENSA meeting this month. (I meant to write about it in lj and never did.) I described filk as an aspect of fandom and how just like many people in fandom filkers can belong to more than one fandom 'grouping.' but I like how you've homed in on it more.

It's a concise definition. I think we've all been looking for one. So thanks! :-)

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
:) "Concise" is what I'm going for. There are so many people who Just Don't Get It, and there's a strong impulse to spend ten minutes to two hours explaining it to them. Well before that point, they're looking for the exits.

You are a perfect example of a professional-level musician, perfectly capable of holding your own with style in any small-to-medium-sized venue I can think of, who happens to filk.

Hm. Maybe we should come up with a Best Of Filk Sampler -- with you, me, Wolf, Wild Mercy, Ookla, etc., etc., etc. Call it Filk: The Music of Fandom or something like that. Get it bulk replicated, make it a freebie -- give it to Bill and Juanita and all the other dealers to give away to people who ask, "What to you recommend?"... and also send it to con-coms and say See, This Is What You Are Missing.

freebie filk sampler CD

From: [identity profile] cheryl-fl-filk.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-10-04 02:21 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2007-10-03 10:25 pm (UTC)
djonn: Self-portrait, May 2025 (Default)
From: [personal profile] djonn
I rather like a description Seanan McGuire (aka [livejournal.com profile] cadhla) used some while back, to the effect that filk is "folk music with a lot of pop-cultural references". For which you can also insert "folk-rock" or "alternative" or "traditional" or what have you in place of "folk"....

That said, I'm inclined to disagree with most of the gallery so far, at least in part. I think referring to filk as "fan music", in parallel to fanfic and fanart, creates at least as many problems as it solves -- and that it is not a good analogy by which to sell the material to those outside the community.

In particular, I think comparing or equating filk with fanfic is a really, really bad idea. For good or ill, fanfic has a huge hornets' nest of baggage and controversy associated with it, part of which involves explicit legal divisions and copyright disagreements between fan and pro creators. Anyone who's familiar with fanfic tends to have strong opinions about some or all of these issues; anyone not familiar with fanfic tends to be greatly confused when attempts are made to discusss these issues. Most of those issues, however, are at best only minimally relevant to filk music and filk musicians. As a result, equating filk and fanfic is (a) a poor analogy in many respects, and (b) likely to lead those on whom the analogy is used to draw incorrect or biased conclusions.

On the flip side, I entirely agree with the practice of referring to SF-con guests and programming tracks as "music" rather than "filk" -- because I think "filk" is losing some of its usefulness as a descriptor as the community and the body of filk material evolve.

"Filk" is of limited use nowadays as a descriptor for performers. It doesn't quantify quality or professional status; Tom and Seanan and I are all filk performers, but Tom's a full-time pro, Seanan's got pro-level talent but works a non-musical day job, and I sing in convention circles but know better than to put myself in their league vocally. And it doesn't quantify repertoire in a meaningful sense; many filk performers do mostly their own material, while others do a range of original work, covers, and/or traditional works from a wide variety of sources.

"Filk" is of equally limited use as a descriptor of theme or content. While the filk community's origins are rooted strongly in SF/fantasy fandom, much of the popular material arising from the community doesn't include SF/F content. "Talk Like A Pirate Day" isn't fantasy/SF-based, to give one example; alternately, a look at a recent issue of Xenofilkia includes songs drawing on current events and classical literature as well as SFnal material.

Nor is "filk" a reliable descriptor of musical style at present; it encompasses traditional Celtic material, modern folk-rock, oldies rock-and-roll, riffs on Gilbert & Sullivan, and more. This is the review I wrote of Stars Fall Home, Seanan McGuire's new album. I mentioned filk exactly once, and then in the context of my own tastes rather than that of the album itself -- and I did so precisely because I wanted to pitch that entry to the portion of my LJ readership that isn't filk-literate.

Now, "the filk community" is a meaningful descriptor -- of the community, rather than the music. And therein lies part of the rub; the filk community has done such a darned good job of being inclusive, of welcoming everyone from full-on pros to the nearly tone-deaf, that it's made itself difficult to generalize about.

So for me, the problem is less one of defining filk musically -- which is more or less impossible these days -- than of how to evangelize about it effectively.
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