Marley Was Dead: To Begin With
Dec. 19th, 2007 10:06 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
filkertomDickens' A Christmas Carol was published on this date in 1843.
What are some of your favorite lines and passages? I so love the description of Scrooge at the beginning -- just read this out loud and see if you don't sound at least a little like Patrick Stewart or Alan Rickman:
Honestly, the whole thing. It's a superb little book, with great lines and clean narrative and even if some of the characters are constructs only put there to Make A Point the whole thing is held together by one of the richest characters in the English language, Ebenezer Scrooge.
So. Quote away!
What are some of your favorite lines and passages? I so love the description of Scrooge at the beginning -- just read this out loud and see if you don't sound at least a little like Patrick Stewart or Alan Rickman:
Oh! But he was a tight-fisted hand at the grind-stone, Scrooge! a squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner! Hard and sharp as flint, from which no steel had ever struck out generous fire; secret, and self-contained, and solitary as an oyster.as well as Fred's statement which, really, sums up everything about how I, an atheist, can so readily celebrate the season:
"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew. "Christmas among the rest. But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round--apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that--as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!"The bit about "You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you...."
Honestly, the whole thing. It's a superb little book, with great lines and clean narrative and even if some of the characters are constructs only put there to Make A Point the whole thing is held together by one of the richest characters in the English language, Ebenezer Scrooge.
So. Quote away!
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:26 pm (UTC)Seared into my brain from a Jr. High production. It's the jilted girlfriend.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:16 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:40 pm (UTC)Look at it this way. Scrooge, for all of his faults, is already a pretty miserable old man. The only person whose life he really hurts is Cratchit... but Cratchit doesn't seem to understand that maybe he could look for another job, one where he could burn some more coal in the stove and probably make some more money. But Scrooge is miserable to begin with.
Enter Marley, who was every bit as miserable as Scrooge... but Marley's dead, and now he's burdened throughout eternity. In an efort to save his _own_ comfort, he haunts Scrooge. He tells Scrooge of the eternity of misery ahead of him. And he tells Scrooge that he'll be haunted by three ghosts.
Now, I don't like miserable people, but the idea of getting ectoplasmically _brutal_ on the guy seems more than a little harsh. And the ghosts work a pretty severe amount of torture on Scrooge. The first one brings him back to his sunny past, when life had potential and he worked with fine people... and when the woman Scrooge loved broke up with him just because he was working hard to make a good life for himelf and, maybe, her too. The girl just cuts him loose. At Christmas. And probably sets him against the holiday for the rest of his life, curdling his soul, and bringing him to the point when a ghost forces him to relive this horrible, horrible moment.
Then Scrooge is shown how other people are living happy lives. How his nephew has a happy life. How Cratchit, despite his poverty, manages to keep his family's spirits up. How much other people hate Scrooge's guts. In other words, the ghost shows Scrooge just how rotten and empty his life is. This is NOT a pleasant experience. And blaming Scrooge for the impending death of Tiny Tim only adds to the fun.
And finally, we get a Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come-- who looks exactly like the Grim Reaper. Not the most optimistic vision of future Christmases, is he? And this spectre takes Scrooge forward to his _own grave_, while creeps steal his stuff and laugh at his unmourned passing. The message is stark, clear, and terrifying: LOVE CHRISTMAS OR YOU WILL FUCKING DIE, OLD MAN.
Is it any surprise that Scrooge, screwed by Marley and psychologically waterboarded by three ghosts, finally snaps? After a night of painful memories, reminders of loneliness, and visions of an unmourned death, Scrooge succumbs to a horrible kind of Stockholm Syndrome and learns to love the holidays.
And what does this say about the rest of us, who love this story? Look at it this way. Imagine if the ghosts tried gentle persuasion. Christmas Past shows Scrooge how nice it was to work for Fezziwig... and that Scrooge really could be that kind of employer and create that same warm joy for others.... and help him understand that yes, he'd bee done wrong by the girl, but he could still grow past it and find happiness. Christmas Present could show Scrooge how the happiness of others could enrich his own life even now. And as for Christmas Future? Who knows what happiness the holidays could bring in years to come? The sight of seeing Tiny Tim walking without a crutch, perhaps?
But no. We don't want that nurturing little feelgood fable. Instead, we want to see an old man browbeaten and tormented into getting with the party line. We want this so much that we retell the story with other characters on TV situation comedies. We like to see Scrooge crushed beyond all resistance.
The story's final line might just as well be "He loved Big Brother."
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:57 pm (UTC)Aw, don't hold back...why not go all the way and expose Dickens as an Enemy Of Reason, and the spirits as a bunch of liberal collectivist busybodies attacking a successful businessman who had previously enjoyed the benefits of guiltless capitalism, the only system that works....
Tiny Tim couldn't walk because he'd been hobbled by welfare state programs, you know.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:58 pm (UTC)Some people can't be persuaded by gentle kindness out of being miserable, small-souled douchebags; they have to have the old clue-by-four brought down on their noses. Dickens is showing Scrooge that he has indeed hurt others, not just himself, by making their passage through this vale of tears less pleasant: his employee Bob Cratchit and his family, the exchange colleagues he so harshly tells to piss off, the poor children he refuses to help, even his own family. The message is not that he needs to love Christmas; it's that he needs to stop being a miserly asshole and start being a fucking decent human being, all year and not just in late December. It's not "love Christmas or you will die"; we all will die, regardless, as will he -- it's a question of how he dies, how soon, and what legacy he leaves to those whose lives he touches. And this is why the story has endured, and has been adapted, parodied and imitated so much.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:03 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:06 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:21 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-21 06:17 am (UTC)Actually, I'm going to have to disagree with the basic premise of RPK's argument: When Marley shows up at Scrooge's house, Marley is already damned. There's not a single thing he can do to help himself. He's doomed to wear that chain for a long long time, and even states that deeds done *in life* are the ones that count.
So here's Scrooge, a bitter and solitary old man - who was still enough of a friend to Marley that Marley was willing to beg for a chance to help him with no possible gain to Marley. Modern day representations like showing Marley with out his chain at the end - they turn him into a Dickensian Clarence getting his wings. But in the original book, once Marley sets up the visitations, he's never mentioned again. He's done something kind for Scrooge, with no hope of repayment of any kind.
The three ghosts are harsh at times (and yeah, "Yet To Come" freaks me the heck out, and isn't nice at all) - but they aren't torturous. You can definitely make a case for Belle being a major downer and possibly the reason Scrooge hates Christmas - that, I can see. But Christmas Past takes Scrooge to see his old coworkers to teach him a lesson - namely, that a small effort towards improving employee morale makes a big difference. Scrooge gets it.
Christmas Present shows him happy parties, yes. Parties where Scrooge is thought of, and missed, and his health is toasted. Yes, Mrs. C does it grudgingly. Yes, Fred and his wife have a small joke at Scrooge's expense first. But *how* mean is he to Bob on a daily basis? He's thrown Fred out of his office as well. And yet he's still remembered with kindness by both families. The ghosts show him this in a way he can believe - because he knows they don't know he's listening. Scrooge is finding out that what people say about him behind his back isn't nearly as cruel as he thinks it is.
Also - "Yet To Come" is so creepy because Scrooge *doesn't* realize he can change things.
Allow me to point out in conclusion that Scrooge folds like a freaking wallet. He *gets* many of the lessons, quickly. He's asking Present if Tiny Tim will be okay seconds after seeing the kid for the first time. He has that great speech to Past about Fezziwig - "The happiness he gives is as great as if he had spent a fortune". Scrooge has had a pretty sad and upsetting life, yes. But who are the worst cynics out there? Idealists who've stopped believing.
Scrooge was damn near begging for the talking-to he got. He wanted an excuse to drop the crotchety act, and he got it.
Leastaways, that's my opinion. Now cross your fingers for me, please. I'm directing a play adaptation of it in ten hours. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-21 07:03 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-23 02:01 am (UTC)Thank you! They rocked. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:01 pm (UTC)And... Dickens demonstrates early on, with Crachit, with Fred, with the two men looking for donations to their cause -- heck, with the fact that no one's at Marley's funeral except Scrooge -- that gentle persuasion doesn't work in this case. It's been tried, and Scrooge runs roughshod over it and counts himself a wit.
(We could go a lot further into this, and maybe later today I will, but right this sec I have to go run a few errands.)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:23 pm (UTC)In the incarnations I've seen, Scrooge is reminded by Christmas Past of what a delight it was to work for Fezziwig; in some cases, he even feels a twinge of remorse for the way he's treated Bob.
And yes, Scrooge's fiance did treat him poorly, I suppose. But again, in all the incarnations I've seen, Scrooge doesn't even attempt to get her back. There are errands to run, deals to broker, and he hasn't the time.
And in the versions I've seen, Christmas Present does show Scrooge the warmth of family, the joy of togetherness. Yes, a few snotty remarks do get made about what a nasty person Scrooge is, but we've been shown that already with the solicitors.
Now, the Christmas Future sequence is sometimes clumsily handled; it's not always clear that the Horrifying Vision isn't death itself, but the way Scrooge dies. But look at the conversation of the laundress, undertaker and charwoman: "Why wasn't he more natural-like in his lifetime?" It's not "he should've loved Big Brother Claus", but rather "he should've been a halfway decent human being".
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 06:04 pm (UTC)Quibble: he *can't* save his own comfort. There's nothing that says his warning to Scrooge is going to shorten his chain or his torment. "That is no light part of my penance." Nothing's going to change for Marley at all.
I realize it's a minor point out of the ones you've made, but it does make a difference to me-- the whole point of the story is that people should be motivated by something besides gain for themselves, and it starts with Marley who has gotten Scrooge "chance and hope of escaping my fate. A chance and hope of my procuring, Ebenezer," with no gain for himself.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 06:58 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 08:02 pm (UTC)I refer you to this ONN piece:
Report: Nation�s Wealthy Cruelly Deprived Of True Meaning Of Christmas (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/report_nation_s_wealthy_cruelly?utm_source=embedded_video)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:46 pm (UTC)"Spirit!" he cried, tight clutching at its robe, "Hear me! I am not the man I was. I will not be the man I must have been but for this intercourse. Why show me this, if I am past all hope?"
And the lightning cracks the sky, and the thunder booms... This is the payoff, the moment when Scrooge at long last has the final shred of denial stripped from him, when he truly gets in his gut that he has wasted decades of his life, and this is his absolute last chance -- that he MUST change his soul, now and forever, if his future is to be other than what the Ghost has shown him. And Dickens' message is driven home, with a sledgehammer and an iron spike, to all our hearts.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:53 pm (UTC)Razzleberry Dressing!
Bah! Humbug!
Date: 2007-12-19 03:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 03:49 pm (UTC)When I was a wee tot, the extended family would all spend Christmas at my Grandmother's house. My uncle would always meet me at the door with a big grin and a surly, "Well, Bah Humbug to you." At which I would recoil in mock horror and reply, "Christmas a humbug, Uncle? You can't mean that, I'm sure!"
That's the part that sticks with me. That and Scrooge calling out for the passing boy to fetch the prize turkey:
"Wot, the one as big as me?"
"Yes! What a delightful boy, an intelligent boy! Yes, that one...have the man bring it here and there's a shilling for you! Have it in less than five minutes, and it's half a crown!"
"Hawf a Crown!!!" Ka-ZINGGGGG!! Ka-ZOWEEE!!!!
The line about Man's children...
Date: 2007-12-19 03:56 pm (UTC)“They are Man’s,” said the Spirit, looking down upon them. “And they cling to me, appealing from their fathers. This boy is Ignorance. This girl is Want. Beware them both, and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy, for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased. Deny it!” cried the Spirit, stretching out its hand towards the city. “Slander those who tell it ye! Admit it for your factious purposes, and make it worse. And bide the end!”
That line above all has stuck with me for years and made me ashamed at how truly ignorant of things I've been at times.
If anything needs to be erased in our times it is ignorance...
Re: The line about Man's children...
Date: 2007-12-19 06:58 pm (UTC)Re: The line about Man's children...
Date: 2007-12-20 07:07 am (UTC)And while they usually did not work on Sunday, Sunday "blue laws" closed other businesses too. Dickens protested against Sunday closing, since that was the one day the poor could have enjoyed something like a restaurant-cooked meal or shopping for gruel or whatever.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:27 pm (UTC)A line I can only hear in George C. Scott's voice. No, he may not have looked the part -- Scrooge should be scrawny, almost consumptive -- but he narrowly edges out Patrick Stewart as my favorite Scrooge because of that wonderful growly voice.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 04:42 pm (UTC)But the part that stuck with me the most and that I've had to watch out for in my own life was the part a little later where he almost succumbs to a relapse...where he's sitting in his office and says harshly "Oh, I don't deserve to be so happy!" But then he throws his papers in the air and says "I can't help it. I simply can't help it." Thus avoiding the temptation of returning to his old ways out of guilt. I don't think this was in the actual story but I loved it.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-20 06:26 am (UTC)That's the version I remember from my childhood. I also like the "sliding on the ice" scene in front of the church.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:07 pm (UTC)Scrooge
Date: 2007-12-19 05:21 pm (UTC)Nate
Re: Scrooge
Date: 2007-12-19 10:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:47 pm (UTC)The prose in those first few pages is just about Dickens at his best, and it simply doesn't get any better than Dickens at his best.
I keep toying with the idea of making a whole album's worth of songs out of it; the closest I have is one on my
E new album (http://www.adamselzer.com/ggwdownload.html) called Ebenezer Walked (http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/q1we8h) (click for mp3 download).
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:51 pm (UTC)I can't help but adore the muppet version, even though it makes me cry. It has such great music.
On a side note, a cousin of mine just named their daughter "Marley". My first thought was "Marley was dead, to begin with." I can't imagine what they were thinking. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 05:56 pm (UTC)No argument here. ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 07:55 pm (UTC)"Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? My taxes support those institutions. Those who are badly off should go there."
"Many can't go there. Many would rather die."
"If they'd rather die, they'd better do it and decrease the surplus population. Good afternoon."
My first introduction to this story, like most of my generation and the one before it, was 1983's "Mickey's Christmas Carol." Looking back, it pisses me off severely that Disney pussied out, and didn't have $crooge McDuck himself be so cruel. Instead, he "tricks" the collectors out of asking him for money by dancing around the issue with Compassionate Conservative bullshit. Bullshit.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-19 11:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-20 01:05 am (UTC)MARLEY: No, I'm not!
FX:PISTOL SHOT
SCROOGE:Yes you are
From the Goon Show
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-20 01:40 am (UTC)"You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you...."
...Now I'm seeing Brent Spiner made up as Data, dressed as Scrooge in his nightclothes, in my head. (From the ST:TNG episode with Ardra, "The Devil's Due".)
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-20 06:18 am (UTC)But I think I like the Muppet Christmas Carol the best of the movies!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-20 06:50 am (UTC)But oddly enough, my particular favorite bit of Scroogeophilia isn't from the original Dickens at all; it's from one of the few really lovely addenda to the legend I've run across, a story by Linda Haldeman called "The Marley Case", in which a modern reader is permitted to investigate the true cause of Jacob Marley's demise. Our narrator, the Ghost of Christmas Past, and the spirit of Jacob Marley are abroad in London on Christmas Eve in 1836:
Over door and window in polished brass letters was the name of the shop, with the number 70 set like quotation marks at each end:
I started to laugh. The whole thing was so preposterous. I was not used to having such literary dreams. But this was stuff I knew about, and I couldn't let a gaffe like that pass.
"I'm sorry," I said to Christmas Past, who still floated on my right. "You just can't do that."
"I beg your pardon?" said the courteous Spirit.
"Anachronism. Blatant, bald-faced anachronism. Gilbert wrote The Sorcerer in 1877. This is supposed to be the London of 1836. Gilbert was born in 1836! Now, how do you explain that away?"
"Elementary," said the Ghost. "It's an old established family firm. The present proprietor is Gilbert's sorcerer's grandfather."
-- from "The Marley Case", ©1982 Linda Haldeman
I hasten to note that the foregoing spoils neither the key twist nor the larger story, though regrettably the tale is difficult to find now -- it ran originally in Alfred Hitchcock's Mystery Magazine, and was reprinted once in a paperback anthology called Mystery for Christmas (Signet, 1990).
(no subject)
Date: 2007-12-21 07:09 am (UTC)Darkness
Date: 2007-12-20 08:10 pm (UTC)"We're Marley and Marley;
Avaris and Greed.
We took advantage of the poor...
Just ignored the Needy.
We specialized in causing pain
Spreading fear and doubt
And if you could not pay the rent, we simply threw you out!"