Yet Another Study Detailing The Brutally Obvious

[filkertom]

Guys, especially young guys, are clueless about women. Aren't you startled?

Any newsy cluelessness to report?

Comments

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Well, actually, it looks to me like the piece you linked to is more saying that males on the average are less good at interpreting subtle nonverbal signals than females. It does note that some guys are quite good at it, and some women quite clueless.

In practice I find it's not the average that matters, it's the ability of the particular person I'm dealing with.

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

I know for a fact that I'm below average on both of those scores. If a woman is interested in me, she's gonna have to JUST PLAIN SAY IT.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Cat, I'm not even sure what to say to that. Yes, of course, individual results and people vary. But this wasn't "Fred Dinkle is clueless about women". It's about men, as a group. And remember I'm a part of that group and willingly admit to such cluelessness.... It's the old joke about guys wishing women came with an instruction manual. We don't know. There's a lot I still don't know, and likely a lot I never will.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

Shocked because women use very subtle hints (that men are supposed to automatically understand) and expect men to do all the approaching and handling of rejection? No not at all. :)

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

BZZZT, thanks for playing. When I was in my 20s, I was about as subtle as a brick -- and guys still didn't pick up on it. I learned the hard way that I had to make, not just the first move, but often the first 5 or 6, before a guy would even notice.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

It depends on the woman. The last time I wanted a man's attention I wrote a song about the fact that I was falling in love with him and gave him a copy.

Worked like a charm. We've been married for six and a half years.

[phillip2637.livejournal.com]

It does seem obvious, but I wonder about the possibility of a universally-objective analysis of the source material in the first place. Given two guys the same age, what one finds alluring might leave the other cold.

(Alternatively there's the saying about 25-year-old guys considering the mention of linoleum to be sexual innuendo.)

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

25-year-old guys considering the mention of linoleum to be sexual innuendo

You mean it isn't? Damn. [edits his pickup line list]

[blackpaladin.livejournal.com]

> Any newsy cluelessness to report?

Alas, yes.

[stevemb.livejournal.com]

Well, strictly speaking that's public cluelessness, not news-people cluelessness.

I was bemused by one local Letter to the Editor asserting that Eliot Spitzer was really a victim of "a hypocritical, sex-obsessed society", citing as one example "songs that glorify 'pimps and ho’s'".

Now, I have a mental image stuck in my brain of Eliot Spitzer listening to gangsta rap....

[robgonzo.livejournal.com]

Not surprised. but from experience i think there is plenty of cluelessness on both sides. I had a convo with my g/f last night that went something like;
She: Why is he acting (jealous) you'd think he liked her or something.
Me: Well duh, of course he likes her.
She: What? He's not showing it?
Me: He's jealous! What does he have to do?
She: He could tell her.
Me: She's involved. What good would it do to confuse the situation?
She: MEN!
Me: Look, pretty much if a guy pays attention to you and doesn't ignore you completely, he likes you. He might not act on it but given the right circumstances and opportunity he would.
She: So, you don't ignore my friends...

It went downhill after that.
But given this is a consistent attitude of men, and women not knowing this basic fact, it's no wonder that they would send a signal back that would in turn also be misinterpreted.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

From my experience, many women seem to love it when a guy wants them, even if it would never work out. So your girlfriend was saying that the other guy should tell the other girl that he likes her to give her an ego boost.

Of course, then if he did say something, she might get all creeped out by it, and say that he was acting weird, etc. Not to mention her boyfriend might be upset by it. Double edged sword.

[dubheach.livejournal.com]

"...given the right circumstances and opportunity he would".

Like what?

This is important to me please.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I wonder how much of this is a result of the isolation of childhood, the way most children just don't see adults flirting, for instance. And everyone's expectations are shaped by television, which is going to produce massive cluelessness.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Ah. Here's the part I was looking for:

The study's funding came from the National Institutes of Mental Health and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to contact them with my pitch for studies to determine the percentage of married people who are female, and to find out why so many people who suffer from constipation don't seem to give a shit...

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

Actually, there are increasing amounts of marriages where you can't assume 50% are female. Gay/Lesbian marriages are legal in several states.

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that there's also a problem with how well males GIVE clues as well as how well they interpret them.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

Other than drooling and stammering when I was a teen, my clues were "Hi, I like you, I want to date you." What other clues are there? :)

[madrona.livejournal.com]

I actually was startled by the finding that guys also confused sadness with rejection.

It explains MY WHOLE FRIGGIN' LIFE.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

My biggest problem way back then was my closest female friends were weird. So were my bestest male friends, but this was particularly troubling because it caused so much confusion. For instance, your normal girl would drop subtle hints and small flirtations to indicate she was interested in a guy. Melonie would build a scale replica of some significant building, blow it up, and challenge the guy to make a bigger explosion. If a typical high school girl was furious with you for some reason, she would gossip, start rumors, stage confrontations over trivial matters, etc. Angie would kidnap the guy, carry him off to a treasure hunt of some kind, actually find something worthwhile, then refuse to share it out of spite while leaving him abandoned in some remote location with no money.

Growing up with girls like that, it's no wonder my girlfriends at the time had to grab me by the shoulders and shake vigorously while shouting "I want to date you!" over and over ;-)

Oh well now...

[gypsy1969.livejournal.com]

excuses excuses

Just sounds like you didn't get it.
I broadcasted things from the roof -- in outfits such as this (in icon) and my guys still didn't get it. I thought it was just because they were SF/gamer nerds, but come to find out it's universal!

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Cluelessness? No. But how about a funny headline?

Woman dies after ray strikes her (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/20/eagleray/index.html). Unfortunately, not about lasers, or Ray Charles.

This just in....

[vid848.livejournal.com]

From the US Department of No Shit, Sherlock....

A mammal of the ursine family prefers to evacuate its bowels in a sylvian enviroment

Re: This just in....

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

Is THAT right . . .?

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

I think people--both sexes--are mostly raised ignorant of their sexuality in this culture. And, yeah, it hurts a lot, and makes everything worse. But it's very "moral".

[kilbia.livejournal.com]

...I've noticed something reading through all the comments here: Folks are focusing mostly on the times when women are trying to express that they *ARE* interested and the men just don't get it. We're being told that we have to hit 'em over the head with a clue-by-four to convey our interest.

What's the acceptable level of proverbial violence to convey that we aren't? Remember, the other half of the cluelessness was mistaking friendliness for sexual interest/availability. What's the right balance of politeness and directness to inform them that they have misinterpreted us there? I know I'm not allowed to beat you up until you grab me (at least, not if I want to justify my actions as self-defense) - what's the etiquette for before that point?

Or am I completely asking the wrong crowd because if I were to poll the men on this LJ, I'd find at least 80% of them describing themselves as horribly insecure at best, meaning you'd already be assuming I wasn't interested and thus wouldn't ever be in that position?

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

Hearing that a woman HE is interested in is NOT interested in him is something he does not want to hear, so he will have his selective hearing on full blast the first time or two you say it. He might even think he can change your mind. So say it firmly. Don't worry about hurting his feelings. Once the message actually does get through his feelings will be hurt anyway, but that's more his fault for getting his hopes up too high in the first place.

I personally think the number in the last sentence should be more like 40-60%, but that's just me.

Wrong question

[graysoul.livejournal.com]

Since flirting is a heavily culturally influenced activity,
and America is a kaleidoscope of cultures,
and since at least the 60s we have been encouraging each other to take responsibility for our personal culture,
Therefore
Why is it still considered sane to make any assumption about how a specific person will react to a cultural cue?
I don't see this as "guys" being clueless about "women" since neither group is monolithic.