Yet Another Reason We Fight For Rights For Ever-Damn-Body

[filkertom]

Mind-boggling. By way of Athenae at First Draft.

Comments

We fight

[markiv1111.livejournal.com]

Yes. And when my Presbyterian minister sister, who believes herself to be a good person, leaves "newspapers" around her house that, among other things, rant against the "homosexual agenda," I'm supposed to keep my mouth shut. And when stuff like this happens, it's only happening to other people, not to us, so we don't need to worry about it, right? Tom, I'm outraged. This needs to get as widely publicized as possible, so people who imagine themselves to be neutral feel the same sense of outrage (at last) and try to set things up so this never happens again. (I think converting the indifferent people of this world is one of the things that we need to force to happen. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for enough good people to do nothing.")

Nate

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Spokane once had a truly insane coroner. He would stand over the body of a dead teenage boys (who died of natural causes, suicide, or accident) and ruthlessly grill the parents trying to get them to confess that their dead son was homosexual. He did this several times and people filed complaints, but the police dept said "Sorry, we can't do anything about it" and didn't. So various grieving parents filed complaints with the city, who said "Sorry, we can't do anything about it" and didn't. So then several people filed a lawsuit against the city and discovered that according to the city laws and charter and such, _nobody_ could do anything about it. The coroner was basically untouchable unless he broke a federal law. I'm sure this seemed like a good idea at the time, evidently Spokane had a history of powerful people extorting coroners to cover up their crimes, but still, it was a stupid move.

Eventually the local news forces picked up the story (official TV news motto: Even if they're criminally negligent, we refuse to say anything bad about our elected officials) and were heavily hyping the "Gay liberals slander innocent coroner" angle until one of them held a 20 minute interview with the guy in hopes of proving him innocent and all of the grieving parents were crazy. After that interview aired the numerous churches and religious groups who swore their undying support for the coroner suddenly found themselves calling city officials asking if there was some way that insane bastard could be removed from office due to mental illness. Finding out even that wasn't a possibility, they started petitions begging the coroner to resign while the city leaped into action and immediately launched a few hundred committee meetings to see what they could do to change the laws that kept the idiot in office (when I left Spokane five years later they still hadn't made a significant difference).

Meanwhile, the insane bastard stayed in office, convinced that only a few homosexual troublemakers were making noise and the whole world, and God of course, looked upon him as a savior of "all that is holy and true and right" (a phrase he used a few times in the interview). It got so bad that the police would refuse to call him, the city had to hire three freelance coroners, and several judges refused to allow his reports in their courts (and I believe something like ten cases were eventually overturned due to blatant bias in the coroner's report, though the city did a very good job keeping this quiet). Eventually he resigned, but it was more of a "My holy work here is done" than anything else.

I consider this a prime example of why people should make noise about things like this. Had not the lawsuits been filed, that insane bastard would probably still be in office.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

I predict that if the ACLU is contacted, we will have California's "what does this mean?" test case.

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

AT that, they were lucky enough to have real law that backed up his argument, not just kindly-intended people who were ignorant. some of the comments note that the same problem can happen to het couples when one is over 62, of all absurd things. Also, let's please remember that CA still doesn't include transgender people in any of the rights that were trampled on in that case.

[enjis.livejournal.com]

It's the whole 'I kept silent, for I was not gay, then they came for me' kind of thing. If they can trample on the rights of law-abiding citizens, they can trample on anyone's rights at any time.
Very scary that in such a time of grief, the person in the story had to have the presence of mind to lie to save what was left of his partner. Even after taking the time and effort to have all their legal ducks in place.

[louisadkins.livejournal.com]

I find it disheartening how many people don't get it - they want to and a "-but FITB group" on to the end of that title, there, and as soon as they do that, they Fail.

[partiallyclips.livejournal.com]

Why is "go to the state attorney general" not on that list of options?

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

This is one of those issues that hits close to home for me on a number of levels. I have a friend who is a lesbian. She's closer than my own sister to me and I wouldn't take it kindly if she was treated in a manner like this.

However I also do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that's not something you can legislate through the law and treating any person like they were anything less than another human being is also a sin. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and all that. It's interesting, and sad, to me that that particular message gets lost so much by some others who share my faith.

I suppose the law should reflect that all people are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. Kinda like it says in our founding documents. Other than that this is one of those things I ususally leave to those more eloquent, or knowledgable than I.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Well, there's two interesting questions regarding homosexuality as a sin, both subject to different answers based on the fairly huge and vital question of whether you believe people choose to be gay/lesbian/bi or are born that way. First, what exactly is the sin, and second, against whom is the sin being committed?

People are people. If a person commits an action, it is not unnatural. It may be horribly wrong, which we'll get to in a moment, but it is not unnatural. Now, how do you define something as "wrong"? Murder in an act of grievous harm, depriving someone of their life. Theft is an act of harm, violating someone's property rights. Discrimination is denial of a person -- as you say, treating them like they were anything less than another human being. What, then -- and I do not ask this rhetorically -- is the harm in homosexuality? Who is injured, and how?

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

Both very good questions. I'll try to answer them the best I can.

The sin, from a theological perspective, would be against God. It's the acting upon the desire that's the sin, at least I think that's how the reasoning goes. Whether or not this is the case is another debate, and I'm not really the best person to debate theology. All I can do is answer as to what I believe, based on my own understanding, which is, admittedly, a tad spotty in some areas.

Honestly, I don't see the harm. I don't really see people being injured so it doesn't really bother me as much as it does other Christians.

I personally define something as being wrong if it inflicts harm upon another person. If it doesn't I tend to let it be and let other people debate the subject. I try to love everyone, it's not always easy but it's something I feel I have to try and do because I've been hated so much over the course of my own life.

I hope that answers things ok. Like I said this is an issue that hits a little close to home on a number of levels.