Is The World Actually Getting Slightly More Rational?

[filkertom]

Superb news: Massachusetts is getting ready to make it legal for gay couples who live out-of-state to get married in Massachusetts.

Once again: If you think that how, or who, other people of legal standing and mutual consent conduct their relationships affects you in any way, you are either wrong or a part (or former part, or wanna be part) of that relationship. More simply, two guys kissin' will not ruin your life unless you want/used to be in that smooch. Not your biz, not your prob. If it is, it has nothing to do with gender; it has to do with the people.

ETA: Jeez. Semantics. Gotta spell out ever-damn-thing for people. ;)

Comments

[pyrephox.livejournal.com]

I am desperately waiting for the test case out of California or (perhaps, now) Massachusetts that challenges DOMA on the basis of full-faith-and-credit. It would seem, from my non-lawyer perspective, that it would be a slam dunk to do so, /if/ you could get the current Court to hear such a case.

[sethb.livejournal.com]

New York has said that it will abide by the Full Faith and Credit clause.

What I think interesting would be if a married CA couple moves to New York, and then CA passes (I hope not) the revocation act. Would NY consider them still married?

[sffilk.livejournal.com]

YIPPEE!!!

Experimental Sandboxes

[baronet.livejournal.com]

As a resident of Mass, I've put some thought into the out-of-state law, and I've come to accept it as a federal-state thing. The law means that the other 49 states don't have to worry so much about what crazy thing MA does with its marriage laws. This means that we can have 50 different experimental sandboxes and run all kinds of little experiments to see what works best.

The law means that in 2004, the other states didn't have to worry so much that the queers in MA would storm their cities in pink camo and make all the men into sex slaves, or that all their women would suddenly realize how much nicer it would be to be married to a nice MA woman instead of the Neanderthal they were currently with (or whatever else it was that the rabid anti-gay voters were afraid of.)

Mind you, now that CA allows same-sex marriage, the cat is out of the bag, so MA may as well share in the marriage-vacation business.

Re: Experimental Sandboxes

[kengr]

Thing is, *regular* marriages in other states have always been recognized. Ditto for divorces. That's what the "full faith and credit" clause is all about.

Hell, they didn't try this back when people were fighting interracial marriages (not all that long ago).

BTW, the arguments against gay marriage are almost word for word the same ones used against interracial marriages (except for the obvious word substitutions)

Classic example is "They are free to marry anyone they want as long as that person is of the [same race/opposite sex]."

[rsmit212.livejournal.com]

Au contraire, knowing that two (or more) consenting adults have found a relationship form that makes them happy, makes me happy. :) Being able to have it legal makes me even happier.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Okay, fine, that's a good one. :)

[markbernstein.livejournal.com]

And on a related note, I've made the decision (perhaps put off for too long) that I will never again spend another penny that might end up in the pocket of Orson Scott Card.

Why? Try reading this.

[joshuwain.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hear you.

It was hard, for me, because the man is -without question- a brilliant author. And, truthfully, I usually try to divorce the person from the beliefs if their art -separate from their personal philosophy or theology- enriches the world in some way.

But I also have taken part in boycotts and much bigger "protests" over matters of principle.

I'm definitely gay. I would like to get married someday. I just can't, in good conscience, put my own money into Orson Scott Card's pocket and feel good about myself.

I hope that doesn't sound too whiny.

Yours,
Sylvan (Dave)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Jeez, what a load.

I remember back when he used to lead the Secular Humanist Revivals, and then for the last however-many years he's been spewing this crap. I'm sorry for the loss for the rest of you, but I just shrug and move on and try to ignore him as much as possible. Sometimes it isn't. If he and I ever meet, I suspect we will have words.

[sethb.livejournal.com]

Sorry, Tom, you're wrong there.

It most certainly can affect me.

When I am (or want to be) involved in said affairs.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Cute. :) You know what I meant. But, y'know? I'll spell it out some more.

I really like Charley Reese's viewpoint on it.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese468.html

[jss]

> More simply, two guys kissin' will not ruin your life ...

But but but... that's in direct contradiction to this! :-)

[emiofbrie.livejournal.com]

Further...Wisconsin has an ancient law that is the reverse of the (now-revoked) Massachusetts one...residents that can't get married in WI that go to another state to get married face $1000 fine and 6 months' jail time...

...and the WI governor has decreed that the law WILL be strongly enforced for gay couples -.- DIE IN A FIRE, WISCONSIN GOVERNMENT!!!!!

[kengr]

That law needs to get challenged. Preferably by a non-gay couple going and violating it and then pointing out the selective enforcement.

[dement1a.livejournal.com]

On a sidenote, business will be positively BOOMing for the banquet halls / catering / baking / limo service / dress shops / tailoring / tuxedo rental shops in MA. :)

[sdelmonte]

It's probably a bit recession-time-cynical of me to suppose there are some people in the tourism industry in California who are upset that they won't be getting all of America's newest brides and grooms.

I'm wondering if, seeing as how NY State will recognize the marriages performed in other states, there will be special marriage buses from NYC to Boston to make things a bit easier and a bit cheaper for those who can't afford honeymoons up there.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

Sounds like an awesome business opportunity, and since gas is expensive, church bus style vans are cheap. :)

[fredhuggins.livejournal.com]

On the contrary, Thomas - it DOES affect me. Every time I see two men kissing, my pee-pee spontaneously combusts.

Or is that women? I keep forgetting. Anyway, GET YOUR GAYS OFF MY PEE-PEE!

Also, NO MORE FETUS KILLING! Life in all forms is ABSOLUTELY SACRED! (swats fly) damn pests...

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

Cool.

I'll admit that watching two guys kiss doesn't do a thing for me. Which is why when that sort of thing happens in my field of vision I ... wait for it ... look somewhere else.

Oh, and belated congratulations on regaining some mobility.

[robin-june.livejournal.com]

I've often been disturbed by the possibility that that now-revoked law could have been used maliciously to annul my parent's marriage.

She was a Massachusetts Portuguese Catholic, and he was a Michigan Finnish (unchurched) Lutheran. They got married in her church. In the Eisenhower era, that was called a mixed-race marriage, folks.

I believe there are some states where that was illegal back then, although I don't know about Michigan. But there was enough there for someone to stir up a bees' nest of trouble, if they'd tried.

[skemono.livejournal.com]

I don't know of any states where Portuguese were forbidden from marrying Finnish....

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

In all seriousness, after reading Card's essay, I found myself wondering whether "gay" unions were ever legal in Ancient Greece or Rome. I know same-sex male partnerships were a norm; does anyone know if their legal system recognized such partnerships in any way? My husband says that in Ancient Greece, they married women to have heirs, and had romances with men.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

Honestly I'm not sure what to think here. Part of my believes that the will of the people should be respected, that there was a vote on the matter and same-sex marriages were denied. Then I remember that there was time in our nation's history that the people denied black people the right to vote and it took a change in the law to put that to right.

There's also my very deeply held religious beliefs on the matter and it makes for some confusion sometimes. I guess the best thing I can do is to love people and be kind to them, kinda like what Jesus taught people in the first place.

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we like our state. :-) And you know what? Since same-sex marriages were legalized a few years ago... the state has not gotten sucked into a flaming pit! Amazing, isn't it?

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

I watched 18 weddings in Oakland the night gay marriage was legalized in California. What a glorious night. Joy reigned supreme. Singing and laughter in City Hall. Little kids in their best clothes watching Mom and Mama (or Daddy and Papa) make them a legal family; a lesbian couple in their 70s finally reciting vows they'd been keeping all along for the past 40 years. A gay Jewish couple stomping on an empty plastic water bottle. An ancient Chinese-American couple beaming to see their daughter finally marry at last.

Yeah, Orson: That was filthier and eviller than your pet Chimp torturing and blowing up Iraqi in a made-up war to pad Cheney's pockets.

Why is it that everytime someone "Finds Jeezis," that person immediately LOSES all shreds of compassion, tolerance, sense of humor, intelligence and respect for other people?

I suppose Orson's gotta keep his Xenu -- 'scuse me, Mormon -- overlords pleased or they might, I dunno, disapprove or something earth-shattering like that.

[madrona.livejournal.com]

Actually, finding Jesus made me *more* compassionate and tolerant, and a lot less judgmental...because I found that I couldn't kneel on my high horse.

Then again, I have decent spelling, so maybe that's it.

I believe in the sanctity of marriage and that's why I want it legal for the gays.

/token Christian commentary

[catlin.livejournal.com]

You know... Knowing my sister kisses other girls has no effect on my marriage. I don't want to see her do so, but I don't enjoy seeing Straight couples kissing in public. Geez people, get a room!

Cory has a theory that people are much more averse to men being gay then women, on the theory that butt sexxors is Icky.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]