Biden: His Time?

[filkertom]

I have to go over all of the various and sundry recollections of Joe Biden's record and life story to solidify things in my head. But I do have one huge problem with the guy.

In my experience, he don't walk the walk.

I seem to recall a whole bunch of times when he got huffy, he got loud, he got in people's faces on national TV, he said the right things with an appropriate level of outrage and some sterling eloquence... and then voted for whatever BushCo wanted anyway.

My problem with Obama on this is perhaps subtler: He picked Biden to spackle over Obama's inexperience in foreign policy, at least as perceived in comparison to McCain.

We don't need "experience". We need some FUCKING LEADERSHIP. Some brains and thought and compassion and common sense.

This is one of several moves -- not a huge number, but noticeable and each fairly major -- that I feel Obama has made to hedge his bets. I'm sure he and his advisers would say they are "compromising".

Things as they are now are awful. They have become awful because of all these motherfuckers with "experience". We need new blood, new ideas, new ways of thinking and living and prioritizing and doing.

And Joe Biden ain't on that particular team.

Thoughts?

Comments

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Biden has walked the walk on one extremely important issue: reproductive rights. He's always been clearly on the side of placing them in the hands of adults -- of both genders -- rather than dictating them from above.

I give him a half pass on the bankruptcy bill, given where he's from and who his biggest constituency is. I hope that not being directly dependent on them (representing 50 states instead of only Delaware) will help him do the right thing.

He's repudiated his vote for the war -- which is more than Hillary did forever, and more than McLame will ever do -- and also publicly acknowledged his error in SCOTUS confirmation.

He's better than the other reported short-listers (Kaine and Bayh), not as good as Sebelius or Clark, and he's what we've got. Maybe he'll come up with as good a line about McSame as he did about 9iu11iani. (Although his original line is now circulating as "A noun, a verb, POW!")

In short, meh -- but far better than the opposition.

[holmes365.livejournal.com]

you verbalized what I have been feeling since I heard the short list.
Damn

[per_solo]

My thoughts? am re-reading Transmetropolitan. i'm slowly losing hope that anything will improve.

not to be Chicken Little, but still...:-)

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

Are you as worried as I that Obama will turn out to be the Smiling Man?

[maiac.livejournal.com]

I think, considering all the people that Obama might have chosen, Biden's about the least disappointing choice.

Experience vs Leadership

[bfeist.livejournal.com]

We need both. Without experience, a "leader" won't be effective; this country isn't a dictatorship, and he needs to be able to push the right buttons to get things to move. Remember the Carter presidency? Brains, thought, compassion, common sense, and horribly ineffective until after he left the presidency.

We *need* politicians. I think that Obama has the makings of a good one. A pure idealogue may make me feel good, but will alienate half the country. Yes, Obama needs to compromise. I won't always like his compromises, but the alternatives are nastier in the long run.

The only way to fix everything quickly would be a revolution, and I don't mean the bloodless kind. I don't like the state of our country, but I'd rather see gradual change than half of my neighbors dead.

Re: Experience vs Leadership

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

it's not a dictatorship? when were we freed?

[drfilk.livejournal.com]

Maybe I shouldn't comment, not being A Murrican and all, but who gets the hot seat next has Large implications for me, perhaps larger than those I Do get to vote on.
That being said, I'd have a very hard time supporting anyone who's been in the Senate far all or part of the last eight sorry years. After all, these people took a solemn oath, in front of God and everybody, to uphold the Constitution. They then watched it being shredded, blatantly, for years, with never a serious attempt to impeach. I'm sure there are Americans who have the stones to at least try to do their jobs, without worrying too much about whether they'd be successful in the endeavor or what it would do to their career prospects, but I wouldn't look for them in the recent crop of Senators.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

There are some whom I'd much rather have running than others. While neither Obama nor Biden is one of them, they're both light-years ahead of any of the Republicans (of whom McCain is one).

The ones I'd rather have? Chris Dodd, who fought the FISA revisions (especially retroactive immunity) tooth and nail. Russ Feingold, whose beliefs and votes are clearly liberal and aimed at improving the lives of citizens.

Okay, two. Not enough, but a start.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

I agree, but I also think that the VP usually does so little that it isn't going to matter a damn in practice. It's just an election tactic, and as such, I'm for it if it works and against it if it doesn't, with no further feelings in the matter. OTOH, I'm mildly annoyed about the selection because, to quote 1776, "this business needs a Virginian!" and there were at least three good ones initially available. They vanished one by one during the endless waiting and fiddling over the selection, and I'd have preferred any of the three -- both as a potential backup president and as an election tactic -- to Biden, who comes across as something of a nonentity.

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

unfortunately in BOTH cases this election year, the veep could end up being prez. mccain is old and sick, and obama because... he's black and some idiots think he's a muslim. so he's going ot need a lot of security, and knowing that, folks are going to have in their minds ... this veep could be our prez.
not my idea to speak of such hideous things, jsut a topic that is in the paper.

[delazan.livejournal.com]

I like Biden, and I hope he grows a pair in the White House.
-L.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

It would be interesting if Biden suddenly turned out to be transgendered, but a bit unlikely.

[fabricdragon.livejournal.com]

personally i am with you.
the LAST thing i wanted to see in a VP was someone who says one thing and does another. If you want someone who can "compromise" and play with the big league boys, there are several people who fence sat or changed sides with more grace.

of course, there are an awful lot of folks who just swung over to Obama because of Bush's "medical conscience" bill.....

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

As I told thatcrazycajun, Obama lost most of my respect when he refused to stand his ground on FISA. The reason the DNC has been steadily losing points with the people is they refuse to USE the political capital they got two years ago and put BushCo in its place - OUT OF DC. Or at least, ineffective. Instead, they're handing over everything the tyrants want on a silver platter.

Joe is just one more symptom that somebody's put the strings on Obama. I'd like to find that somebody in a dark alley. (Of course, figuring out who it is is somewhat problematic....)

Not that I'd even *think* of voting for Bush III, but I too am getting steadily less sanguine about the whole frakking affair...

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's leadership that's lacking. The Shrub has appallingly good leadership skills: he leads briskly and confidently in the wrong direction. Few people think that following him is a good idea anymore, but almost all of them are still doing it.

No, I think the problem is priorities. The people in power have mostly the wrong ones. They're after more power, money, fame, that sort of thing. They don't give a flying fuck about the Earth, posterity, or humanity other than what they can get out of those for their own gratification.

I'm firmly convinced that letting John McCain into the White House would be a flaming disaster. I think he's entirely too likely to start WWIII.

Obama ... has potential. He seems responsive to input. That's more promising than anything I've seen approach the White House in many a long year. I don't think he'd get us all killed in a stupid war or deliberately set the Earth more on fire than it already is. And that's about what my standards have come down to.

I was for Kucinich. He didn't last long. He had the answers to just about every problem we're facing, and they weren't pleasant answers, and people SO did not want to hear that. Leadership? Sadly, not so much. I saw him deliver the Articles of Impeachment; he's such a poor public speaker that I'm amazed he got elected for anything. He's impeccable with facts, but people generally don't care much for facts these days.

I'll settle for a charmer who is unlikely to do serious damage and might actually do some good. Better him than the plausible alternative of McCain.

But if you're determined to vote your hopes, check out the Green Party; they're fielding a fine team who haven't got a snowflake's chance, but have the right ideas. Or hell, write in somebody you think could actually do a decent job.

[amberjoh.livejournal.com]

I think Obama just committed political suicide. We're going to be seeing the footage of Biden taking about how Obama isn't ready to be president and how the presidency is not the place for on the job training.

Picking a running mate who's on the record pointing out your flaws is just not a good idea.

[stevemb.livejournal.com]

It's not necessarily a critical problem (Today's Trivia Question: Who first made the phrase "voodoo economics" famous?)

That said, if Biden is as much a coin-operated automaton for special interests as early reports suggest, I'm a lot more likely to cast a protest vote for Barr. (Meh. If Virginia is actually in play, it's over anyway, so it's not like it matters what I do.)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Edited to provide links:

I researched Biden today. The Washington Post vote database puts him as voting Democratic platform 96.6% of the time. (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/b000444/) (I am a classic Democrat.) Key votes (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/b000444/key-votes/) of the last few years include:
- No on expanding surveillance without a court order
- Yes to expand children's health insurance
- Yes to inspect cargo coming into the country
- Yes to ban the use of torture (or whatever they're calling it these days.)

Unfortunately, he has also consistently voted yes for blanket war funding, although he did oppose the surge. (http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Joe_Biden)

According to Project Vote Smart's Interest Group Ratings, (http://www.votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0150103) Biden has consistently high marks from humane societies, farmer's unions, the National Trust for Historic Preservation, ACLU and other civil liberties groups, human rights, National Education Association, environmental conservation groups, Children's Defense Fund, Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (Gun Owners of American schizophrenically ping-pong between low and high ratings for him), public health and disabilities groups, labor unions, liberal groups, military groups (especially disabled veterans - do look at McCain's voting record there), and senior and social security issues.

Most importantly to me, Biden has a rating of between 75 to 100% from NARAL and Planned Parenthood, which makes sense for someone who wrote the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA) (http://www.ovw.usdoj.gov/regulations.htm). This makes him the perfect person to contact regarding Bush's latest loogie smearing down the Constitution, the upcoming Health and Human Services Regulation to Protect Health Care Providers From Discrimination (http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2008pres/08/20080821a.html) - which, if you read it (http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2008pres/08/20080821reg.pdf), translates to "Regulation to protect bigots from refusing to provide or refer patients to abortion or birth control services without any penalty for this refusal."

Joe Biden isn't on the team that would permit crap like this from sliding into law when people aren't looking. That's enough for me.

[realinterrobang.livejournal.com]

It would be nice if he actually acted like he cared about women when he was speaking in public. According to this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YX2FczojUc), where he's introducing his wife, he says, "My wife Jill, whom you'll meet soon, also has her doctorate, which is a problem..." Stay classy, there, Joe.

[thatcrazycajun.livejournal.com]

You and I are on the same wavelength...as you've probably already deduced from my own LJ entry earlier today, if you've seen it. (One of my other friends notes that Obama's list in order of preference was: Biden, Kaine, Bayh and Sebelius. Three old white guys with "experience" before the truly fresh, female choice. Figures.)

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Kaine old? Watch it, buster. He's younger than *I* am.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

Right now I'm more worried about not having another Republican President than anything else, and I don't think Biden will help Obama get elected. (I heard some commentary, before the announcement, that he wasn't trying to pick someone who would help him get elected, he was trying to pick someone who would help him govern. I'd feel better about that if I weren't already very worried about him actually being able to get elected.) By picking an old white man, he undercuts his own message of change and at the same time leaves himself vulnerable, if McCain taps a woman or minority, to losing even more votes to the "principled maverick" straw man. McCain is not a moderate mainstream guy, but he plays one on TV, and the people who fall for it are likely to fall for it even more if he has a more "diverse" VP pick than Obama.

[hanabishirecca.livejournal.com]

I think Joe Biden is going to be key for hooking in more democrats and independents alike. He isn't my first choice for VP and he certainly isn't my third either. But I think that Obama isn't just picking some name out of a hat.

As pointed out above, Biden votes 97% along the lines of democratic lines. And what exactly does the Vice President do? He breaks ties in the Senate. That's it. It gives the democrats someone strong they know won't F-up something their party is after if it gets to the dreaded tie.

And from a completely painted picture perspective, it does give Obama someone with McCain old experience. A VP is someone you say is giving you strength and when you point out their weakness, you can say, "Well, he's the VP, not the Big P."

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

my comments are at my LJ.

Biden is live ammo in the hands of the Swift-boaters.
When WILL the dems give up that circular firing squad and their tendency to yank defeat from the jaws of victory?

[amazingadrian.livejournal.com]

I think Obama is what you are looking for then. The man himself doesn't have any "experience" but has a lot of ideas. His choice of Biden as his running mate covers those who want someone with "experience" in the White House. Argueably, it was one of Obama's biggest flaws as a Presidential Candidate, and bringing Biden on board as the VP hopeful helps take care of that.

I've heard that people were spectulating he would choose Hillary as his running mate. While I'm sure that would have been excellent for the Democratic Party and would have diversified Obama's camp with something "new", I can't think of anything that would have been more contrived. So I am glad that he chose someone else, even if that someone would appear to be the "obvious" choice.

This makes me feel a smidge better about voting for him. For me it's either Obama or the Green party, because I certainly don't want McCain to win.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

I mostly remember him for the Judge Bork confirmation hearings, where he did more than any other Senator to keep that walking Chernobyl off the court. Imagine if Bork, and not Kennedy, had been there for the last 20 years.

That's gotta make up for a very large amount of same old same old.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

BTW... the truly horrid stinker of a subject line did not go unnoticed. I hope Mama Squat is pleased, and you get good parking karma for a week. :)

[singingpatient.livejournal.com]

right now i'm so pissed off about the FDA's poisoning of our food supply and one of W's last great moves being an attempt to make birth control equivalent to murder- while actual people are being killed maimed and tortured all over the globe- that i can't think about anything else, except if the dems win (crossing fingers) they have a LOT of shit to undo. obama does incredible town hall meetings, with compassion and sincerity, and actual listening skills that i see in few humans, much less politicians. if he needs a loud mouth to overcome the republican machine, well then i guess he needs a loudmouth. i wish he'd picked chris dodd. hell i wish he'd picked ron paul! or pat buchanan!
unfortunately for hill, bill made it impossible for her to be veep. he wont' reveal his financial transactions post-presidency. and there's not room for bill and a new prez in the white house.

[lemmozine.livejournal.com]

I have to wonder if Obama was perhaps under some pressure from entrenched party hacks when making this decision - or perhaps not, since both Obama and Biden are fairly centrist, MOR candidates. As a crazy radical, I'd have preferred someone else, but everything I read about McCain convinces me he is a dangerous lunatic who needs to be stopped, so I am still resolved to vote for Obama, especially so because I inhabit one of the "swing" states where my vote may actually count for something. Anyhow, to put it in perspective, this choice is something less of an abomination than the pairing of JFK and Lyndon Johnson. I'm not sure if that was Kennedy's choice or something the convention delegates did. Anyone who tells you the VP selection isn't important, remind them of what happened in '72 with Thomas Eagleton. It is very important. Even more important for McCain's choice, since he is statistically fairly likely to die in office, considering the health risks and mortality of ex-POWs.

I am curious as to what the Hispanic community, especially those who supported Clinton, have to say about Joe Biden, what his record is on immigration votes and other issues of concern, and whether the fact he is Catholic would actually make any difference in how any of them would vote. I'm sure this is something that Obama and his advisors considered as part of the selection process.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

Biden is not so bad; he's actually a pretty decent centrist. That said, he's an old white guy, and I suppose he was chosen to placated the old white guys in the Democratic Party. From my over the hill perspective, it looks like Obama's working on breaking the hearts of his young progressive supporters. I hope you/they vote for him anyway. While I do not agree with Obama, and he has consistently rejected the support of my political faction, he has my vote; he is far and away a better choice than McCain.

Oh, yes! And good discussion over at Making Light (http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/010516.html).

[enjis.livejournal.com]

Honestly, even tho he would be 'one heartbeat from the presidency', when has a vice-president's views and opinions ever made a difference after an election?
Do they even DO anything? Would he be an advisor to the president? Can he effect anything at all?
Forgive me if I am completely ignorant here...I just can't remember when a vice-president ever did anything at all.....(except take the president's place at certain state functions.)

[bridgeweaver.livejournal.com]

Cheney has certainly not been a passive Vice-President. I'm not sure what to believe, but there is a substantial body of thought to say that Tricky Dick is responsible for many of the excesses of the Bush administration.

[bosswriter.livejournal.com]

I think Biden was picked because he would aid the most in getting Obama elected, although I believe as in most all presidential elections, the running mate has only a minor impact on the polls.

What I do think Biden brings to the table is the ability to work the system to get the things Obama will want done. Like him or hate him (mostly the latter) Cheney has done an excellent job for Bush in that regard.

The VP may not be a visible part of the administration, but he can be a key one.