Special Comment by Teh Keith

[filkertom]

On the accountability of torture.

Comments

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

He's right. But it won't happen. And if it did, the Republican response would not be an amusing malapropism, or a series of noisy demoes. Obama is going along to get along, rather than make martyrs out of evil men, because the alternative would result in a slide into even greater chaos at a time when order is desperately needed.

This is why social progress is, for the moment, an illusion.

[faxpaladin.livejournal.com]

I'll be blunter: I'm beginning to quite strongly suspect that the Bushists in the GOP are encouraging and egging on the talk-radio fear of the Obama Muslim Socialist Fascist Gun-Stealing Tyranny precisely to make it impossible for Obama to pursue war-crimes charges — to deliver the message that war-crimes prosecution means war. That's why Obama's treading so carefully.

Whether he's right to do so — damned if I know. This is why the job ages people. But as others have observed, Obama plays the long game, and there was just enough weasel-wording in that statement to leave room for movement. I'm guessing that the next move is to let the outrage build from the memos' release and work from there.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

If people broke the law, and by all accounts it looks like they did, then they should be held accountable. No one is above the law, not even the President.

Last night I happened to watch O'Reilly, and an unbelievable argument was made. Megan Kelly, one of the Fox legal analysts, was on and defended the CIA torture memo as having a legal leg to stand on. That people who were saying that what was done was illegal were wrong. She made no comment on the morality of what was done or whether it was wrong politically, just that it was legal.

Yeah I blinked at that too.

So I guess the Federal Anti-Torture laws are totally irrelevant and have been overturned.

I really shouldn't be surprised though. O'Reilly has been calling the torture just one of the "mistakes" that happen in war. Still a disgusting attitude to take.

[tommytoony.livejournal.com]

I gotta agree with some of the posts on that site that teh Keith's comments about Germany and WWI seemed a bit off base. But still...spot on. Watergate begat Iran/Contra which begat the last 8 years. At least they attempted to prosecute with Iran/Contra.

I understand why Obama doesn't want to rock the boat, especially with the current teabagging going on (don't even get me started on that). But still...I've lost a great deal of respect. And hope.

The DC Boys Club wins again.

[sophia9847.livejournal.com]

There is a subtle bit in there that gives me hope--he granted immunity to the CIA agents who followed the memo in good faith--NOT THE LAWYERS/POLITICIANS WHO WROTE THEM. Those are the ones I most want to see held accountable. however, something tells me there were a lot of democrats who knew and said nothing, whose names might get "dragged through the mud" in a trial, who may quietly or not so quietly try to block justice from being done. Also, a trial would require each of us Average Americans who stood by and did nothing to examine our own consciences. those are the reasons I fear there's a non-zero chance that nothing beyond public humiliation will ever happen to the men who masterminded this scheme.

However, back to the front-line torturers themselves, the "in good faith" also gives me hope. it leaves him wiggle room to go after the more egregious uses of the memos. the one thing I've observed about Obama so far is that he's always thinking 3 or 4 moves ahead. I'm willing to see how all this plays out over the next few weeks/months, as the reality of what happened sinks in for Americans of all political stripes.

[sophia9847.livejournal.com]

Sorry to respond to my own post, but I just saw this column from Andrew Sullivan that says most of the same things, only better:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-bigger-picture.html

[alverant.livejournal.com]

I gotta agree with [info]smallship1 . The moment you start holding Republicans legally responsible for their actions, they'll start whining about persecution and digging in their heels on everything. They would rather let the whole country slide down into the sewer than admit they were wrong. Anyone brought to trial on these charges would be made a martyr regardless of any actual moral guilt and responsbility.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

I'm not so much worried about their whining, as I am setting the precedent of trying a former president. I suspect if he does bring up charges, then when Obama is out of office, someone will bring him up on charges as well, regardless of the reasons.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

That's always been the threat. Impeachment of Bush and Cheney for their many crimes was always off the table, because the Repubs started yelling that it was to "get back at them for Clinton", even before the possibility of impeachment was brought up.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do kind of imagine that if Bush was charged (especially successfully), every succeeding president until the Earth spiralled back into the sun would be too, on one pretense or another.

Isn't a totally polarized political system awesome?

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

I hate to say this, but...

Isn't dwelling on the past exactly what the Republicans do every time they exploit 9/11 for their own political purposes?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Damn skippy.

In a hypothetical concept called "reality"

[capplor.livejournal.com]

There is a difference. It's the difference between saying "it never happend" and refusing to say "Never again". Credit goes to Obama for not denying that it happened, but I really don't see how to prevent it in the future without creating some sort of consequences.

Now I'll admit, I'd rather let the small-fry go free, and get the people whose actions caused our mutual moral perversion (and anybody who did not martyr themselves to prevent this has some smidgeon of responsibility, including myself -- that's what DEMOCRACY means) Abu Grabe was a great example of stringing up a few unimportant people who never would have started that mess without official encouragement.

So I guess I vote with the group that says there might be a bigger game going on.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

It's one thing to never forget, it's another to never get over.

If you dwell on the past at the expense of the present, you have no future.

[jannyblue.livejournal.com]

it's another to never get over.

And that's why lower Manhattan STILL has a huge raw ugly hole the size of a city block where there should be buildings and offices...

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting for the assorted Bars to come down on the lawyers for ethical violations. Those opinions clearly were of the "Client wants to do something illegal and needs to be shielded" variety, which isn't Kosher.