SCROTUS

[filkertom]

That is, the Supreme Court Reprobates of the United States.

Just read this. The whole thing.

Y'know what it reminds me of? Those school systems that have banned purses because young women might have drugs or guns or exploding marmosets or somethin' in there.

We're back to me thinking that either I or these yutzes -- in this case, the fuckin' Supreme Court -- has their sense of proportion way the hell out of whack. And, once again, I don't think it's me.

(h/t beldar)

Comments

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

So now SCOTUS has made it harder for police to search your car if you're pulled over for breaking the law, but easier to search your teenage daughter if she might have some Motrin on her.

Good to know. =/

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

The decision you mention was quite an odd one. That was the weirdest 5/4 split I've seen in a long time. Ginsburg, Scalia, Souter, Thomas and Stevens in the majority, with Roberts, Breyer, Kennedy and Alito dissenting.

[enjis.livejournal.com]

As a former 12 year old girl....oh my god, I'd want to DIE if anything like this happened to me!
It is so amazing, reading what the various members of the SC were saying...laughing like 12 year olds themselves, except for the woman judge, who was appalled!

I just don't know how to express my disgust with this whole thing....

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

[insert varied string of obscenities here]

[phecda.livejournal.com]

Hey, why don't we just insist that all school children be naked, and then we would be absolutely positively certain that they couldn't be concealing anything from us? And ... uh I'm sorry, who are you and why do you want me to take a seat over there?

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

As long as we can extend that to airline passengers, I'll call it fair.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

I think the Supremes are having a problem with the concept of "reasonable suspicion." They are also failing to recognize the difference between changing for gym class, where the witnesses are all students, and a strip search, where the witnesses are all adults.

I know that the people of the Supreme Court were young once. But at the moment, I think some of them have been old for too long to recognize what's going on in a high school.

[pandoradeloeste.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't know what porn the SCOTUS has been watching how they changed for gym class, but when we did it, even when we had boy/girl locker rooms (which I didn't get until high school) we showed as little skin as possible. I am still a master at changing from a regular bra to a sports bra while not only not taking off my T-shirt, but never showing more than an inch or two of midriff.

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

Hey now, the court hasn't made its decision yet. Several of the justices asked questions that implied they were against strip-searches. And justices often ask questions to push attorneys to the absurdity level -- as in, if we were to do this, it would lead...what? Those answers are quite often used in the opinions to argue AGAINST that attorney's point.

It'll be months, probably, before we get a decision. I wouldn't panic yet.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not panicking, and I see exactly what you're talking about. However, I am pissed as hell that there's laughter and discussion of a BOYS' locker room in the middle of a pretty damned serious case involving privacy, sexual harassment, and an adult wielding undue power over a minor.

As the mother of a pre-teen

[capplor.livejournal.com]

this scares the sh*t out of me.

Re: As the mother of a pre-teen

[the_rck]

Yeah, I consider it a reason to contemplate home schooling.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

I shall instruct my daughters to simply say that if they are forced to strip, they will assume it's for the sexual gratification of those watching and federal child porn charges will be filed the instant she talks to her daddy.

I doubt they'll continue past that.

Absolutely

[lariss.livejournal.com]

Indecent acts against a minor.

And she should also refuse to strip herself...then you might get Lewd Acts as well.

Or they will DEFINITELY give up.


Good idea.

[stormsdotter.livejournal.com]

I think the girl makes a good point at the end of he article: why didn't they call her mom first? And why were these people going nuts about over-the-counter pain meds? In my cube at work, I have claratin, muscanex, and I carry advil in my backpack at all times, along with a first-aid kit.

Personally, I have no issues with the purse ban, but my opinion of purses is that they are stupid, needless contrivances. If you can't fit what you need in your pockets, buy a shoulder bag that you can carry your lunch in too, instead of carrying around a stupid little bag that's just asking to be stolen.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

And why were these people going nuts about over-the-counter pain meds?

Because the zero-thoughttolerance policies require them to, pretty much.

[lizard-sf.livejournal.com]

It's not you.

It is sometimes astounding that the CDA was smacked down 9-0, given how clueless the current SC seems to be about anything which has happened after, say, 1950 or so...

[maya-a.livejournal.com]

Thank the gods for Ruth Bader Ginsburg. At least she's sane.

[lariss.livejournal.com]

But old. And that frightens me.


Though it frightens me less now that Obama is in office.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

SCOTUS has shown remarkably little sympathy for students in the past few years. One wonders if that doesn't have something to do with students skewing toward thinking, and the real world.

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

I heard all of this on the radio yesterday. Those guys are all certifiable. The one woman was at least trying to make a point of the fact that barely teenage girls do not strut around the locker room like boys do, and that this is truly insane.

Comments from the Peanut Galle--I mean, from the Bench

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Alito: Unless the informant had a record of reliability, there was no probable cause. This seems to imply that one of the more Draconian judges has a problem with the search. That could mean a sane ruling, especially if he has influence with the rest of the ultraconservative wing.

Scalia, too, despite the armpit farts, was incredulous that they banned marking pens because someone might sniff them. Roberts at least seems to think you have to finish going through the kid's pockets first before leaping at the panties like a bull at a gate. I saw no quotes from Kennedy at all. No way am I going to expect Thomas to rule against more viewings of naked girls.

On the other hand...

Souter would rather have the kid embarrassed by a strip search … than have some other kids dead because the stuff is distributed at lunchtime and things go awry. Um, we're talking about Ibuprophin here, not meth or heroin. Souter's a civil libertarian and is supposed to be one of the good guys, here. Is he about to betray his principles and suggest some sort of "balancing of harms" test where, if dangerous drugs are alleged, more searching would be permitted than for harmless cold-care aisle pills?

Breyer...Oh, Good God, I don't know where to start. I don't WANT to know what he did in his school locker room. Evidently he's wistful about it. Normally, he's one of the best judges on the court; here, he acts like one of the worst.

Stevens's only contribution was to ask whether the lying informant was disciplined. No harm here.

Case could go either way, with Kennedy likely to provide the deciding vote as usual, though with the other 8 lined up in an unusual way.

Re: Comments from the Peanut Galle--I mean, from the Bench

[jeffr23.livejournal.com]

There are very few substances so harmless that there isn't someone out there that will be put into anaphylactic shock by them.

And if such a thing happened at a school that had a policy of allowing students to carry their own medications, you can bet that that school district would end up sued until their toenails bled...

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

If something like this had happened to my sister when we were in school I very likely would have ended someone with the nearest blunt object. Any issue like this, for me, is viewed through the eyes of being a big brother so I find it doublly offensive that they put this poor girl through this trauma.

My utter contempt for these morons just grows with each passing day.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

Even I dont see the court as not overturning it. Most of the questions sounded sarcastic/looking for where the line SHOULD be. Ex. Roberts was right that if a strip search is somehow justified, a pocket search would be too.

The WORST (and I mean VERY worst) I expect is:

"The search could have been done by giving the student garments to wear and telling him/her to change into them then put her clothes in a provided bag. After he/she changes into them, someone comes in the room and examines the contents of the bag in front of the student. Any contraband would have been in the room somewhere if not in the bag."

And THAT's assuming they dont say they have to call their parents first. And that's assuming they had enough of a suspicion to do it.

[nomaddervish.livejournal.com]

"Hmm... The Advil isn't in the bag with your clothes. Guess that means we'll have to do a cavity search."

The audio report on this that I heard yesterday included quotes in which one of the justices pointed out that the school's attorney's arguments could also be used to justify cavity searches. The attorney replied that, no, that's not an issue because the school district didn't have personnel with the appropriate medical training to perform them. His answer to the next question was basically just an evasive way of admitting that, yes, if they had someone with the appropriate training...

[rivkaesque.livejournal.com]

Good heavens. I just - it's - there are no words. None.

[infinitemorning.livejournal.com]

This is precisely why we need more than one damn female judge on SCOTUS. Preferably at least four. There are men who Get It, of course, but it's appalling that Ginsburg had to point out how appalling this situation is -- and they still didn't get it.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

Five, actually. Women being more than half the population, the way we are.

I think the lawyer trying to present the strip search of a 13 year old girl over *ibuprofen* as reasonable would have a more interesting time of it with five female judges watching him from the bench.

I think the four male judges might, um, stop behaving as if they are in the boys' locker room as well. For an added benefit. We can hope.

[regalpewter.livejournal.com]

Well, they're just paving the way of the future. In britain it is now illegal to photograph the police in public.

This is just so the kids are further conditioned to allow goverment agencies full access to thier every movement. After all, society is more important than the individual.

"No Mr. Rearden, It's not about the law. It's about power."

YIS,
WRI

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

This country has lost all pretensions of sanity when someone can claim that it's appropriate to violate someone in a way that leaves them so traumatized that they miss a year of school to be sure she wasn't concealing fucking ibuprofen, and not merely not be lynched, but have members of the Supreme Court nodding in agreement. How the hell are we supposed to handle tough problems, like how our civilization is going to live through the next century of environmental collapse, if we can't come up with the right answer on something this stupidly simple?

[ravenclaw-eric.livejournal.com]

As long as we have the War on (Some Unpopular) Drugs, this sort of thing will happen. I was reading about it as far back as '79.

And even though I loathed Bill Clinton, if he'd had the political cojones to call the WO(SU)D off, or at least throttle it 'way, 'way back, I'd have forgiven him almost everything. I notice that Obama doesn't seem to want to do anything about this, either.

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

This is totally unrelated to your post. Please go read my latest post.

http://ann-totusek.livejournal.com/102775.html

[qnofhrt.livejournal.com]

I heard the report on NPR about this case. Nina Totenburg is a great reporter for cases like this.

I do not understand this quest for drug-free schools. I'm sorry but I don't see the link between having motrin or tylenol in your purse in case of a headache or something else and dropping acid or smoking meth. Just can't get there. And the whole nonsense of having an asthmatic have to get out a pass to go to the nurse's office to use their inhaler is even more absurd.

I listened to the report of this with increasing incredulity and anger. Strip searching somebody for a MOTRIN? What the hell is this country coming to?

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a schoolteacher in a behavior treatment center where there are drug abusers in treatment, even simple over-the-counter medicine like ibuprofen can, and are, abused. Usually this is from chronic users trying to cover over side effects of other drugs. It is also bought by kids who have histories of abusing more serious painkillers like codeine or morphine, in a vain attempt to duplicate that high. In high enough doses, it can cause the heart to race, in turn triggering an adrenaline response similar to a high. We actually do have to watch out for kids selling this stuff, as ibuprofen, or as pretend other drugs. It isn't ridiculous to be concerned just because it was an OTC medicine being looked for.

That being said, the treatment center at which I work has had to do clothing exchange searches, but usually for more serious drugs, (crack, valium, etc.) not for ibuprofen. It is a big, hairy deal when it has to be done, with checks and balances with the residential house coordinator, medical staff, director of the program, parents, judges and case workers having to sign off *ahead* of time that a teen resident is under suspicion of dealing or abusing drugs. An accusation from a peer will start a paperwork trail, but no *WAY* would a strip search be done without a *LOT* more incidents or better suspicion. The idea at a treatment center is to not cause more trauma to the kids in treatment, by stripping them and being invasive. And even then, more usually, instead of a physical search, the center authorizes a urine test or blood draw following any home visits or times the resident is suspected of having access to drugs.

In another community close to us has police drug dogs on call. If a student is suspected of being in possession of drugs, there is *no* strip search; the student is called to the office, and the drug team is called in. The dog walks in with the officer, and will sniff out whether the kid has anything. *Not* invasive. If the dog triggers, then the *police* have reasonable suspicion to search lockers and possessions and that person without it involving school staff. And believe me, parents *are* in fact notified first.

Sadly, zero tolerance policies of any kind of medicine are pretty much the norm now in most school districts. *Usually,* if medicine of any sort is needed, from ibuprofen to attention deficit medicine to epi pens for folks with allergies, it must be distributed from the office with permission slips and doctor's orders. Any of these items found on kids, even kids with valid prescriptions for the medicine (like antibiotics to be taken with food at lunchtime) mean an automatic 3 day suspension from school.

Administrators are under a lot of pressure to show they are tough on drugs, and fear for their jobs. Not a good formula for rational decision making. Zero tolerance policies engender zero thought, zero exceptions, and many ridiculous over applications of rules.

[redneckgaijin.livejournal.com]

Before my dialup gives me the link to read, I'll say beforehand that I've for years believed that not a single one of the nine people currently on the Supreme Court deserve to be there. All nine of them manipulate, and frequently maul, the law in order to advance their personal political views... and, if they can't do so, they'll decline to hear important cases on the grounds of "the heavy workload of the Court."

This at a point where, every year for the last fifteen, The Supreme Court has set records for fewest cases heard in a session...

... now, do I have a page to read yet? No, not yet...

... I will say that, again in my opinion, the two court justices most alike are Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Antonin Scalia. Both have absolute contempt for anything like, for example, consistency of principles or the letter of the law. Both use "original intent" when it agrees with them, ignore it when it doesn't. Both treat people of different political viewpoints with aggressive contempt. The fact that the two are diametrically opposed politically is a minor detail compared to the strong similarity of the two in action.

Ah, here's the text... readreadread...

... and what I'm seeing here isn't so much judicial malpractice as six old men plus two less-old-but-thoroughly-misogynist men mocking frail, wimpy, girly girls. (Well, maybe not; John Paul Stevens might have tried, based on his one appearance in this article, to maintain some sense of decorum.)

In any case, this looks set to be another ruling in a long series beginning in the 90's to the effect that minors have no rights worth respecting. That's the right's view of things, and too often the left goes along in order to Preserve Society From Harmful Influences.

Feh. Impeach 'em all.