Probably Seems A Bit Selfish, But...

[filkertom]

What Granny Doc says. Except for the very last line.

Comments

[valarltd.livejournal.com]

I'm with her on it all. I'm suffering from outrage fatigue.

[jblaque.livejournal.com]

+1

[tommytoony.livejournal.com]

+ another 1

[ailsaek.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm tired of having to battle stupid on both sides of the fence. The Democrats are not as bad as the Republicans, but they're still not good.

[hughcasey.livejournal.com]

I disagree completely.

I have to care, because I have to live with the decisions and actions of the stupid, petty, and evil people, no matter WHERE in the world they are.

What they do affects us all, just as what we do does the same.

What they sew, I have to reap... so I have to do what I can to stop them from sewing it.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I prefer to think of it as, "We can't help the rest of the world unless we help ourselves first, putting ourselves in a better position to help them."

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Same principle as "put on your own oxygen mask first."

[hughcasey.livejournal.com]

SOMETIMES this is true, but usually, if we wait until we're "ready" before we help others, in most cases we never will.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

We don't have to be Completely And Utterly Healed As A Nation, because honestly that'll never happen. But I can think of a few things to do right now that I believe would help a lot:

• let the damn Bush tax cuts expire
• start to actually withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan (especially the National Guard Dubya sent over there, so that they can help with local emergencies)
• cut into the Pentagon's budget and quit fighting the Cold War against guys in caves
• put through a few policies intended to restart our manufacturing base (small tax advantages for keeping employees in the US and large tax penalties for going offshore, rebuilding infrastructure [especially with green tech], and wrenching the damn health care payments away from private companies and putting them into buy-in Medicare....)

[kayshapero]

Aaaa-men, brother!

[jenk]

This is new?

(I thought invading Afghanistan and Iraq would be pointless, expensive quagmires BEFORE we did it.)

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

I really think we should go isolationist til we get our own crap together. No foreign aid be it financial, military or in-kind. with tax dollars. That being said, I think individual Americans should donate as much as they are able to the NGOs of their choice that do provide foreign aid like microloans, clean water projects and such, provided that it's demonstrable that such funds actually do go to the projects intended.

[stone-bitch.livejournal.com]

^^^ ITA ^^^

[kilbia.livejournal.com]

See...the irony is that Granny Doc *does* care about things. S/he uses the phrase "I want" twice in that article. It's just that those things aren't the things being focused on, either by the media or by government. So I don't believe it when s/he says s/he will not care - s/he'll stop caring about some things, but not all. And that's actually pretty healthy, IMO.

And I have to wonder: s/he's being overwhelmed by all this information about how bad it is over there, but if s/he hadn't been told ANYTHING about our involvement over there, would s/he really be happier for the ignorance, or would s/he be even more fearful wondering why the economy is crap without the cold comfort of knowing where the money's being misspent?

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

If we-the-USA hadn't started massive armed interference in the Middle East, I could sort of -- although not entirely -- go along with "It's their problem." At this point, though, I'm stuck with, "We broke it, we are responsible for fixing it."

However, I suspect that we could fix it at a whole hell of a lot less than $1 billion/day, if we substituted (for example, and in part) the Army Corps of Engineers and the Peace Corps for the existing military operations.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

The focusing on our own stuff part? All of that.

The allowing the Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot, and bring the Republicans back in? Not so much. Not that the Dems haven't screwed up -- but I fear what a Teatard-fueled Republican government would bring (starting with impeachment and descending rapidly into crazy-folks Hell).

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Well, yes.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

It's an understandable attitude, and it's not--I think--about not caring, despite the phrasing. It's about not submitting to any more emotional manipulation.

There is, as janetmiles said, an element of "we broke it, we have to fix it" (and I'm not excluding Britain from that). Whether what is being done at the moment constitutes "fixing" is beyond my ability to say. There are very pressing domestic concerns, which anyone would be forgiven for thinking are more important than helping out a foreign country...but whether abandoning foreign aid and going isolationist would actually help to address those concerns, again, I'm not sure.

There is one certain fact. The situation in the Middle East was not engendered by people who "cared" about the people or the countries there. In fact they manifestly did not "care" about them, only about protecting America (if you believe that) or securing control of a bunch of oil (if you believe that). You do not make war on people you care about.

In the end, I believe that whatever action is contemplated, "I don't care" isn't a good reason, and I don't think it's the real reason here. I think the reason is that Granny Doc cares too much, and has had that care abused once too often. I may be wrong, but I think that's also true of you, Tom. I don't really think you're going to stop caring any time soon.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Precisely right, m'friend. Which is why I can't go along with the "ignore it" attitude. I do think that we should quit mucking about in other peoples' countries for no good reason, and all the reasons we've given the past dozen or so years suck.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

I think the best summary of what GrannyDoc is trying to say is from the Bible. *websearch* Aha! Matthew 7:3, to be exact: "And why do you look at the splinter in your brother's eye, and not notice the beam which is in your own eye?"

This country has a heck of a beam stuck in its eye...

(And I'm quoting the Bible. No reports of pigs on final approach at Boeing Field, though.)

[laurel-potter.livejournal.com]

The Bible might have a lot of terrible things in it, but it does come up with a gem now and then.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

While I agree with her sentiment, I'd rather permanently put down the religious fundamentalism that has a choke hold on that area. Otherwise the suffering will only get worse. What GrannyDoc may not realize is that you can't stop fundamentalism with violence. That only makes it worse. (Think about it, when has war ever stopped fundamentalists without killing all of them.) You stop fundamentalism through peace. You take away their target because fundamentalism gains power when it's focused on something like the West or abortionists or liberals. And when that target fights back it just proves the fundamentalists claim that the target is out to get them. Sometimes the target has to step back and prove that they're not the monster they're being made out to be. Unfortunately sometimes the only thing you can do is fight back which always leads to an ugly drawn out war that nobody winds. One side just looses less.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

I'm not as upset, but that is mainly because I never believed in the first place. I was very glad to see Bush II go, but Obama's campaign never made solid promises to begin with (none of the Presidential candidates did, except perhaps Kucinich), and perhaps half of the Democratic Senators supported Bush II's wars and civil rights abuses.

I care a lot. I was aware of and opposed the Taliban during the Clinton administration. I still do. In addition I am aware that the USA has participated in the on-going disaster in that region, and I believe the USA owes these people a great deal in amends. I will not be baited by the blatant manipulations of the militarists who made the problem; in any just world, they would be facing a war crimes tribunal, rather than in power. I do not believe that continuing the wars as they have been conducted is going to do anything but make matters worse.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

The problem is if you didn't support W's wars and civil rights abuses you were labeled as being a terrorist supporter and got death threats from conservative "americans" with guns.

[tcgtrf.livejournal.com]

If the govt is spending the money over there, screwing with people, it doesn't have the money to screw with people over here. I mean, really, East St. Louis just laid off 30% of their police force...

...and you can't have a police state if you can't pay the police.

Seriously, though, guys--you could end US involvement in both Afghanistan and Iraq and you still won't have enough money to pay the current obligations of the US Government. Things are progressing towards breakup a lot faster than I originally thought.

Tom

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Can't have a state without police either.

Who else is going to protect us, those militia guys who think that unless you are of the RIGHT race, RIGHT religion, RIGHT political beliefs than you're part of the problem and should be "dealt" with?

[tcgtrf.livejournal.com]

It pleases me that you cannot have a state without police. I have never made a secret of my disdain for governments larger than the County level. When they passed the law in Illinois that recording police in the course of their duty was a *felony*, officers of the law lost any respect I may have had left for them and any remaining reason for existing as an organized force in my opinion. They have been granted the right to lie to those arrested in order to obtain evidence, law is no longer applied without consideration to who the individual is, and prisons are now legally allowed to keep some offenders after their sentences are finished.

For the rest of this decade, the police going to be more of a danger to the citizens of the US than the criminals as more and more citizens object to more and more intrustion into their lives.

I grew up in a rural culture fifty years ago that was, compared to now, virtually police-less. Shame and honor took the place of armed and armored martinets. The Supreme Court has now removed the right of cities to prevent citizens from possessing firearms.

The cities can't afford police any more? Why don't you and I, Alverant, take charge of our lives? In five years, you won't have a choice--may as well start early and get some practice.

Tom

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Trusting the police to keep the peace does not mean we're not "taking charge of our lives". I'd rather have the police on my side than have to trust a bunch of rural enforcers who already think they have the right to lie and suppress those they don't like.

[tcgtrf.livejournal.com]

Who exactly are these "rural enforcers" you keep going on about, anyway? I'm a small town boy by birth and have lived in a half-urban, half-rural county for the last forty years and I have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

You talking about farmers with guns? You talking about the strawman "militias" that the government has been scaring children with for the last twenty years? You talking about the Tea Party types?

For the record and with all due respect for Tom, since it's his blog and he makes the rules....

I'd have to say that hanging around with those types I have heard:

1) Less prejudice against blacks and women than I hear in this blog towards white men.

2) Less raving about unbelievers than I hear disdain towards Christianity from commenters in this blog.

3) More tolerance of differing beliefs than I hear tolerance of traditional lifestyle choices in this blog.

I would be happy to provide examples if you must have them, but if you go back over the comments section the last three months, I'm sure that you can find your own examples--there they are in *every* political discussion. I stay and read because I love Tom's music and am willing to put up with the "hate speech" to keep in touch with the songs and the life of a songwriter.

The worst thing of all is that when a Tea Partier or Militiaman *is* a racist (and there are a small, vocal minority that give the rest a bad name), they make their statements furtively, in lowered voices. I have never heard the kind of self-righteous talk of someone there who is *proud* of their prejudices.

Tom T.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

1) Less prejudice against blacks and women than I hear in this blog towards white men who present video recordings of black women out of context.

2) Less raving about unbelievers than I hear disdain towards Christianity used as an excuse to try and pass legislation to disallow others from behavior and pursuits which cause no harm beyond offense to practitioners of said Christianity from commenters in this blog.

3) More tolerance of differing beliefs than I hear tolerance of people who follow traditional lifestyle choices and decide that since it's good enough for them it's good enough for everyone in this blog.

Fixed that for you.

But seriously, Tom, if our society does collapse as you believe it will, I sincerely hope, from the bottom of my heart, your house winds up smack dab in the middle of an area filled with people who think and believe exactly the same as you.

I really, really do.

[tcgtrf.livejournal.com]

Sorry, Lumpy, I hold with my original statements.

You know, and I know, that the kind of prejudiced, snarky, bigoted statements I am talking about are a characteristic of *every* political and religious discussion in this blog.

As far as your second statement goes....

I grew up in an area filled to the brim with people who felt then like I do now. It was heaven for a child--I could play in my yard without fear of strangers; I could earn extra money at ten by doing farm work; at twelve, I could hunt for fur and meat to suppliment our income.

It would be joyous for me if it happened again. It would be a safe, decent environment for my wives, children, and grandchildren.

Tom

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

Alright, Tom. I hope your wish comes true.

Just don't be surprised if the last sound you hear is the voice of Rod Serling;

"Noted philosopher John Donne once wrote "No man is an island", a wise lesson all-too-often learned only when one is adrift at sea. Take the case of one Tom Tancredo, a man who fancied himself a lion trapped in a kingdom of sheep. That kingdom has now crumbled, yet somehow he remains trapped in the Colosseum surrounded by his fellow lions, only to find out too late he's little more than a ritual sacrifice for the barbaric amusement of an uncaring, all-powerful despot by the name of "Reality". Tonight's tale of caution and irony, brought to you courtesy... Of The Twilight Zone."

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

Translation: "My life sucks, so if their life sucks that's just too bad. They'll get no help from me."

Great attitude.

I'm guessing she wasn't a big fan of the Marshall Plan either.

I seem to recall a phrase being tossed around in here a while back, one that spoke to me. "Life is tough. We're all in this together. Don't be a dick."

Apparently that's now "Life is tough. I'm getting mine. Get your own."

Captcha: "wakes crabbily." How appropo.