filkertom: (Default)
[personal profile] filkertom
[Sorry for the length of this, but a few people have said I really should take out the cut-tags so everyone will see this. I appreciate the sentiment, guys.]

It is worth remembering that, no matter how idiotic and clumsy some of our leaders are, how stupid the things they say, how insane the things they do, you can always count on Faux News to up the ante.

They really are a divine little propaganda organ. Their view of the world is perfectly in sync with the oligarchy that's imposed itself upon America. And their fiercely loyal viewers are told, over and over again, that We Report, You Decide.

If only.

Regarding the matter of Park 51, the prospective Islamic community center in a former Burlington Coat Factory store a couple of blocks from the former site of the World Trade Center -- I'm sorry, the mosque near Ground Zero -- Peter J. Johnson of Faux News lets us know in no uncertain terms his standards for citizenship:
"I look for the day when this is no longer about politicians or pain or protest, but about neighbors becoming good neighbors," he said.

"Thank god and our founders for the First Amendment, but God help us if it all comes down to the need to rely upon it," he continued.

"Any American can assert a right. Great Americans give up their rights to help those they share nothing else with but a love of this country," he concluded.
[Emphasis mine.]

As you'll see if you read from the link, the lead-in to this was a swipe at Fred Phelps, the despicable bastard whose extended family calls itself the Westboro Baptist Church, and protests whatever their particular agenda is at various funerals across the country. Johnson conflates both Phelps's tired tirades and the planned Park 51 -- in other words, Phelps's little stunts are the exact same thing as the construction of a community center near the WTC site. Or at least that's what Faux would have you believe.

I loathe Phelps, and have invoked him on my LJ numerous times, and I wish there was a simple public decency law against him disrupting a funeral. But he can say whatever the fuck he wants to say. I disagree with him on every level, but by damn he can say it.

That's what the First Amendment does.

And it does so because governmental stifling of opposing views is the first, most odious, and most effective way to suppress a people.

And I think that if somehow the Founding Fathers and all those who have bled and died over the past 234 years defending our rights could hear Peter J. Johnson's smarmy assertion that "Great Americans" give up their rights, Mr. Johnson would get the biggest historical ectoplasmic bitch-slapping in the history of the world.

But, again, he has the right to say it. I bet he even believes it, on some level. Although he may not apply it to himself.

But he says it, and some people watching Faux will hear it, and take it to heart.

The first intention of it, obviously, is to build public sentiment against the not-a-mosque. And it's another step on the path of the attempt to, at least in public opinion, make Muslims Not As Good As Us. Different. As Stephen King says, Fear Thou The Mutant.

But it works in the same way on the people it tries to rile up against the Muslims.

It says, in essence, "Good citizens -- no, Great Americans -- need to set aside their freedoms when necessary. We'll tell you when it's necessary."

And it becomes that small little bit easier for the oligarchy to control more people, to make the intolerable seem normal, to bludgeon people into shrugging and lowering their heads and not calling attention to themselves.

And the worst thing is, the first instinct for protecting yourself is to not trust anybody. Which also is a great way of making people malleable: divide and conquer, y'know?

You have to trust yourself. You have to trust your friends. You have to cultivate your own information sources, and that can take awhile. The idea is not to mistrust, or even to trust-but-verify, but to get as much truth as you can, and then work out what you can do for yourself, your friends, your community, your country with the truth. No matter what it may be.

And one of my truths is: You do not give up a right.

The Bill of Rights is a pretty cool document. It tries to cover everything, and, given the context of 1775-1789, largely succeeds. (And many of its problems, such as voting rights for minorities and women, have been ironed out over the years.) The most important things is that it does not enshrine spurious things as "rights". It says people should expect a certain amount of goodness in their lives, and these are the rules by which others are not allowed to interfere with that. It sets up very basic rules, largely intended to prevent governmental suppression.

They also work against what has become known as "the tyranny of the majority" -- circumstances where a larger segment of the population approves of something which would oppress or harm a smaller segment.

We see this a lot lately with gay rights, with women's reproductive rights. But it can apply to anything. And lately it's been a backlash against all things Muslim, fostered by talk radio and the Tea Party and Faux News and unfortunately reinforced by such people as Howard Dean who should bloody well know better.

As long as it doesn't violate local codes, as long as the people running it follow the laws, what Park 51 is really doesn't matter. It is the right of the people who want to build it to do so.

And they damn well shouldn't give that up because some xenophobic liars want to scare them into becoming their twisted, docile, head-down, know-your-role-and-shut-your-mouth version of Great Americans.
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(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 12:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lizziecrowe.livejournal.com
Thank you for saying what people with brains that for independent thought have been thinking.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 12:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janeg.livejournal.com
Canadians cannot waive their rights under the Charter of Rights or the human rights codes. They can choose not to insist on them, and not to take legal action to enforce them, but the rights remain should they change their minds.

I suspect that legally Americans cannot give up their constitutional rights either.

I hope the mosque is built, and lasts a thousand years. There's been lots of news coverage of this issue in our papers.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 01:58 pm (UTC)
ext_3294: Tux (Default)
From: [identity profile] technoshaman.livejournal.com
Actually, the waiving of rights is done all the time, especially under two circumstances: Contract law, and extraditions. Oh, and security clearances.

*sigh* Part of me wants to stay and fight, and not have to deal with asinine foreign policy should I leave... but a fair part of me is considering learning to parlez-vous francais...

*sigh* too many good people down here, though. Like Tom, here.

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Date: 2010-08-21 12:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sveethot.livejournal.com
Sorry, Mr. Johnson, if that's your idea of a "Great American", I'm going to go ahead and be the worst kind. You know, one that thinks for herself and opens her big yap when she believes the occasion warrants it.

Jeez.

It follows

Date: 2010-08-21 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] capplor.livejournal.com
that Mr Johnson, himself, is not a great American, because at the worst, if he considers that he has a RIGHT not to be reminded that there are Muslims within some geographic radius of Ground Zero, then he is patently refusing to give it up.

(If he doesn't have a right, which I would contend, then he's asking more with less justification)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 01:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smallship1.livejournal.com
Um, yes yes GOD yes, but "Watch Thou For The Mutant" was John Wyndham. I think. "The Chrysalids."

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 01:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] filkertom.livejournal.com
Entirely possible -- I haven't read it. I got it from King's Danse Macabre, and it may have even just been Fear The Mutant (and he may have even been quoting Wyndham -- it's been awhile, and the book's not at hand), but that phrasing is how it stuck in my head.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 01:56 pm (UTC)
ext_3294: Tux (Default)
From: [identity profile] technoshaman.livejournal.com
Tom, I have a request. Lose the cut tag. This is *so* good, everyone needs to see it, like it or not.

Granted, your journal, your First Amendment... but that's my request.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 02:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] stevemb.livejournal.com
lead-in to this was a swipe at Fred Phelps

Faux vs. Phelps:

"My cousin Francis [I of France] and I are in complete agreement -- he wants Vienna, and so do I."
--Emperor Charles V
Edited Date: 2010-08-21 02:13 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 02:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] phecda.livejournal.com
I'm a first generation immigrant, and maintain my UK citizenship. However, one of the reasons why I choose to stay in the US is the whole concept of rights that are encoded in the constitution. Despite the UK being a democracy, it's also a text book example of just how ephemeral the concept of rights can be if they aren't the foundation of law. So, yes, to echo technoshaman, get rid of the cut tag. You have a bully pulpit here, make some annoying use of it because people in this country really don't know how good they have it.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 02:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] randwolf.livejournal.com
Pictures of the neighborhood:
Image (http://daryllang.com/blog/4421)
BTW, it's a community center, not a mosque. The model seems to be the Jewish 92nd Street Y (http://www.92y.org/).

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 02:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] uhrwerkmensch.livejournal.com
I'm more appalled at the narrow, literalist reading of the First Amendment he espouses - a reading which he insists gives states and communities the rights to abridge religious freedom. After all, the FF only said that "Congress shall make no law . . ."

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 03:50 pm (UTC)
ext_3294: Tux (jefferson)
From: [identity profile] technoshaman.livejournal.com
It's an important part of American caselaw that the 14th Amendment makes it so that the first ten apply to *all* government, not just FedGov. Even, bit by bit, the Second.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com - Date: 2010-08-22 08:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 02:52 pm (UTC)
poltr1: (Oberheim)
From: [personal profile] poltr1
What's that quote by Benjamin Franklin? "Those that give up their liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." Or something like that.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 03:00 pm (UTC)
ext_281979: (Default)
From: [identity profile] his-spiffyness.livejournal.com
Roger Ebert has a good summation of the whole affair (http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/08/ten_things_i_know_about_the_mo.html)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 03:56 pm (UTC)
ext_3294: Tux (Default)
From: [identity profile] technoshaman.livejournal.com
Truly, Ebert is one of the greatest writers of our times... having lost his physical voice, he has *written* some of his best stuff in recent years. And he's *having fun*. He wrote so himself. I hope he's around for a while longer.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 03:59 pm (UTC)
ext_68422: (Default)
From: [identity profile] mimiheart.livejournal.com
Outrage over plans to build library next to Sarah Palin (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/outrage-over-plans-to-build-library-next-to-sarah-palin-201008193017/)

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] saganth.livejournal.com
Um.... WTF? Is this a joke or real? And since is "Sarah Palin" a place?

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Date: 2010-08-21 04:24 pm (UTC)
ext_18496: Me at work circa 2007 (Default)
From: [identity profile] thatcrazycajun.livejournal.com
Tom, they're right - you really, REALLY need to boost the signal on this one. It's your most eloquent and meaningful yet, and I'm gonna herd my Facebook friends over here to read it. Well and truly said, sir.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 04:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scruffycritter.livejournal.com
I wonder what Charlton Heston said about giving up his 2nd amendment rights...

Oh wait. I remember. Something about his cold and dead body.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zibblsnrt.livejournal.com
It says, in essence, "Good citizens -- no, Great Americans -- need to set aside their freedoms when necessary. We'll tell you when it's necessary."

Further than that, when they say "great Americans" they're really using a euphemism for "inferior Americans, or possibly not real Americans at all." After all, they're throwing the admonition towards people who they're trying to convince the public to despise, in some silly passive-aggressive attempt to appear to flatter them into submission.

As is usual for Fox, they're saying the opposite of what they're saying.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 06:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] admnaismith.livejournal.com

Amazing, isn't it.

How the people who say racial profiling is no big deal, and that if dusky-hued people were really partiotic Americans, they'd put up with a little inconvenience for the greater good, are never the ones who fit the profile?

How the people who want to crack down on those icky homeless people blighting up downtown not only have homes but have always done all their shopping and gathering uptown, or better yet, out of town?

How the people who think it's only good manners to defer to the majority and never make waves are themselves in the majority? Unless, of course, their side lost the election...then, watch out!

How all the shoemakers keep coming up with sensible proofs that we need a law against going barefoot? etc....

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dornbeast.livejournal.com
Yay. I'm descended from Great Americans. I'd rather not have greatness in my family from such a source.

(My maternal grandfather immigrated from Japan before World War II.)

Great Americans Give Up Their Rights

Date: 2010-08-21 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] admnaismith.livejournal.com

Wow. Peter Johnson sounds just like the local police in my area during an interrogation!

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 06:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] admnaismith.livejournal.com
And an opposing view, from one of those pointy headed Hollywood elitists who thinks he knows better than you and dares to tell people what's right (as opposed to people on Faux who just tell the truth):

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/20/real-americans-please-stand-up/

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ann-totusek.livejournal.com
Umm....I grew up in the culture (the right wing fundie church) that uses the phrase "give up your rights" and I think that what Johnson said was poorly phrased. I think what he meant was far more akin to what [personal profile] janeg said- not giving them up in a legal sense, but not insisting upon them. In the church, we heard a lot about husbands and wives giving up their rights to each other- not as an abdication, but as a gift (and to credit my minister, this was talked about in respect to BOTH parties). My husband may have the right to insist that he take a job that moves us 4000 miles from home in order to further his career, but in deference to my preference for a stable home life chooses to not insist on that right, and finds employment close to home. I have the right to insist that I go to graduate school in a town 2 hours away, but in the interest of family financial stability, I do not insist upon that right. In the negative sense, there's the person who built a home just of the lake. When they bought the property, there was a park that the city owned between them and the lake, giving them a wonderful view of the lake and the park. The city fell on hard times and sold off the property to a developer who then built a huge apartment complex on the former park, completely obscuring the view and causing the property value of the home owner to plummet. Did that developer have the right to do that with the property? Absolutely. They had obtained the proper permits and were following the law. Were they being assholes for doing it? Yup. The affected homeowners TALKED to them, explained how much the view had always meant to them, and the problems the huge drop in the home value was going to cause (having to do with loans using the house as collateral, and the bank holding the loan wanting more for collateral since the house no longer had the value, I think). The developer blew them off- quite rudely.

Do I think that the Muslim group who wants to open the community center are being assholes? No. I think that the people who are causing a big fuss over it are. That being said, either one of these groups could defuse the whole mess by not insisting on their rights- either by scuttling plans to build the community center, or by shutting the heck up. I don't think either of them will.
Edited Date: 2010-08-21 06:40 pm (UTC)

You argue their point coherently

Date: 2010-08-21 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] capplor.livejournal.com
but my sticking point on the whole issue is "if this is 'too near' there ought to be a clear and pre-agreed on definition of 'not too near' " or else you're telling these people that they have no right to exist, and THAT you have no right to do. The complaining parties have done nothing to suggest where would be a good place to build, and the perception from where I sit is that there is none.

I read a quote from Dick Gregory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Gregory) in the 1960s -- "In the south, people didn't care how close I got, as long as I did not get too big [politically powerful]; In the north, they didn't care how big I got as long as I didn't get too close." I don't think the complainers want Muslims "big" or "close"

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Date: 2010-08-21 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] slweippert.livejournal.com
This mosque thing is a non-issue. Politicians like to say it's "on" or "in" or "at" ground zero, but it's TWO BLOCKS AWAY. That's not even 'near' when you're talking about a large city like Seattle, I would expect in a larger city that would be even more true.

It is not at/in/on/near ground zero so GOP go find another thing to complain about.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 07:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tcgtrf.livejournal.com
I believe it is included because the landing gear of one of the hijacked planes fell through the roof of the building that was on the site.

Keep in mind that the Towers were a couple of blocks high. Look at the sat photos of the area immediately afterward to get some idea of the spread of the devastation.

Tom

What makes a place holy?

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Date: 2010-08-21 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bayushisan.livejournal.com
Regardless of how I feel about Islam in general they do have the right to build their community center. I'll stand by that every time when asked. As an earlier poster said when quoting Franklin "Those who would sacrifice their liberties for security deserve neither."

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 07:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realinterrobang.livejournal.com
I thought these guys were all about property rights. The Islamic community centre group owns the land; they should be able to do whatever they want with it, subject to the same restrictions as everyone else, of course. I don't even see this as a speech issue at all -- it's the modern version of "there goes the neighbourhood," continent-wide.

That said, on the subject of speech, I am damn glad the Canadian government told Fred Phelps he's not welcome here. Do whatever you want when you're at home, but don't expect other countries to automatically think you should be invited for dinner if all you do at home is shit on the rug and smear mashed potatoes on the wallpaper. If he were our crank (squid forbid), I'd have a different opinion about him.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] starcat-jewel.livejournal.com
I'll see their Westboro Baptist and raise them the First and Fourteenth Amendments. If we can't force WBC to STFU because of their Constitutional rights, how DARE we think about doing it to a group that wants to promote peace and harmony?

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-21 09:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] teddywolf.livejournal.com
I should note that these are the same people who say that nobody should be asked to give up their gun rights, evar. Unless, of course, they're lefty pinko socialists.

(no subject)

Date: 2010-08-22 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bryanp.livejournal.com
No, there are plenty of us pro-2nd amendment types who think this is stupid as hell too, thank you very much. I'm a big fan of the Bill of Rights. ALL of the Bill of Rights.

(I wasn't going to jump in with any parallel's to 2nd Amendment rights, but since you brought it up, sure.)

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