RATZA FRATZIN 'PUTER Update

[filkertom]

Vanna, I think I just bought myself a clue.

CPU-Z, a lovely little monitoring program, reminded me that my memory was DDR2 -- one 2 GB chip rated for 400 Mhz, and two 1 GB chips rated for 333 Mhz. DMA looks like 366.7 Mhz.

My mobo, a T-series TA790GXBE, had four DDR2 slots (which was why I got it, so I could keep my old memory) -- rated for 533/667/800. (Or, if I had an AM2+ or AM3 CPU, which I do [as mentioned earlier, it's a Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition], I can run DDR2 1066.)

(Also onboard is an ATI 790GX shared-memory graphics chip. I think it's disabled -- the only option I see is from the MSI Nvidia card -- but I'll double-check.)

Does the massmind have an opinion about whether the memory chips themselves, or more specifically their clock speeds, might be part of the problem?

ETA: More fun. This time, the retail variety.

The small indie computer store near where I live has ridiculous prices. I understand it's hard for a small store to get the discounts that big-box stores can, but these guys are really bad. Sadly, today I can't share the precise numbers with you, because none of the stores three web sites will load. Which is really not good for a computer store.

Micro Center seems to have a number of goodies I could use, at a price I can almost handle. But it's an hour away, through Friday rush-hour traffic.

Best Buy has a buttload of memory -- available online, to get there in 1-2 business days. The only chip they have in-store of the type I want costs double what the online orders cost.

Yeesh.

Comments

[caligogreywings.livejournal.com]

It can choke your processor speed, sometimes to the point that you get very little out of it.

The *other* thing you might want to double check is whether in the bios there is an option to set your processor's frequency. I had mine set completely wrong (it was set to 100 mhz, and needed to be 166 mhz) and I was getting terrible clock speeds out of everything.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Actually, that's just fine. There's built-in overclocking in the BIOS, and I've got it tweaked on the lowest setting, confirmed by CPU-Z. Also, there's some function that adjusts the chip speed on the fly, so it goes down to 800 Mhz when idle then pops up to 3.25 Ghz when it needs to.

[caligogreywings.livejournal.com]

That's awesome! I've been going through some computer issues myself, and had to replace my mobo with a friend's old but still newer Asus, and it doesn't have that lovely feature. :C I'm still getting artifacting in my games, which is driving me crazy, but at least the processor chip is set right.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Found it. The name of the function is Cool 'n' Quiet. When it's enabled, the CPU speed will basically drop to 1/4 normal when the system is idle, and rev right back up again when it needs to.

[solarbird]

...oh.

Yeah, that's bad. That's some pretty substantial overclocking, even assuming it's settling on 533Mhz. (60% overclock, lol - I'm surprised you boot! XD ) There's maybe some support for slower memory speeds, just not official? And probably bad fractions of bus speeds? That'd create FUN TIMING TIEMS. Either that or you're overclocking your memory without extra cooling and possibly without the voltage support and, um, yeah.

That's bad.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Well, like I say, I'm not overclocking the memory. The lower numbers are what it's running at; the board numbers are what the slots are rated for. Which basically means I think I've got hamsters in a wheel rated for ferrets. Or somethin'.

I do believe you're right about the supporting slower memory speeds. Makes sense, backward-compatibility being what it is. But what I think might be happening, or at least what part of the problem might be, is I'm just throttling the data, and the CPU's going, "Come on, come ON! Fer cryin' out loud, I got the moxie, gimme the STUFF, man!"

[solarbird]

Well, you said the chips were "rated for" those speeds, which in my experience means manufacturer's specs, not current run speed. But since they're actually running at those speeds also, then yes, you're not overclocking, but you've got FUN TIMING TIEMS and probably bad fractions of the CPU speed and/or the bus speed, which makes timing conflicts, which makes fail.

[vulpine137.livejournal.com]

Bounced this off my resident hardware geek, and he thought it's either the ram, or SP3. Suggested testing the ram with memtest86 http://www.memtest86.com/ If it passes, then it's probably an issue with SP3 and AMD chips, seems there's a update for AMD that needs to be applied before installing SP3. If it isn't bad things can happen.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Ah, now there's the fun part. There was an issue with AMD and SP2, and there was a patch for that. SP3 supposedly fixed it. I'll try the memtest86.

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

Mmmm....talk nerdy to me! (moan)

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Umm.. yeah, I'd say your CPU & mobo is having problems with the slower RAM... The mobo might not totally support the older, slower mem speeds and the CPU is definitely going to be sitting around waiting. [not to mention the weird fractional bus speed is going to mess up the timing.]

I would suggest getting a minimum of 2Gb of the 667 at least, 4gb of 800Mhz would be better.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

It is generally a bad idea to mix speeds in memory. If you have X speed in one, you need X speed in all.

[nimitzbrood.livejournal.com]

This. It's one of the second most insidious things I've seen with PCs that have intermittent errors. Sometimes it's even invisible where the manufacturer passed on some marginal ram and it's not living up to it's labeled speed/timing/whatnot.

And yes this happens even on Macs when you buy "OMG my wallet!" RAM from Apple directly. ;-)

The first on the insidious list oddly is a bad power supply. Even the tiniest of AC voltage/noise leaking through the power supply can cause _Weird Shit_ to happen.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I've had a power supply go. Not fun.

Y'know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna shut down for a few, and take out the two slower 1 GB RAM chips, and just go with the faster 2 GB chip for awhile, and see if that makes any difference at all. Back in a few.

Okay, This Is Now Getting REAL Interesting

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

According to the labels on my 1 GB RAM chips, they're both 667.

Not showing up as that.

The appropriate sticker is not on the 2 GB chip, although at the end of a line on the sticker that is there it says "PC2-6", which may mean "PC2-6400".

Which may mean, firstly, that the 2 GB chip could be backwards-compatible and run at 667.

And which likely means, secondly, that I'm missing something in the mobo's RAM configuration.

Lemme go over the manuals again.

ETA: Ooooooh, my BIOS is defaulted at DDR2 - 400 Mhz. Fun fun fun.

ETA2: Okay, I am full-blown gonzo confused.

Popped the two 1-GB into Slots 1 and 2, the 2-GB into Slot 3 (of 4).

To change the DRAM timing, I had to set the BIOS to Manual Overclocking. It informed me that the chips were all DDR2, 667. (From the info I got online, the 2 GB actually seems to be DDR2, 800. But that should downclock itself to whatever the bus is running at, right?) So, basically, it said I didn't have to change the DRAM timing.

And here I am, back in the system again, and Same Old Same Old.

DPC Latency Checker still tells me something is spiking a bit every few seconds. AnVir indicates it's a disk. CPUID says my DRAM frequency is not 667, but 366.7 Mhz.

I don't even know what to do at this point.

Re: Okay, This Is Now Getting REAL Interesting

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Okay, on at least one level I am an idiot who has forgotten all of his tech.

Of course CPUID shows the Double Data Rate chip running at about half the speed of what it's rated. There And Back Again.

Jayzus, I'm a putz sometimes.

At least I know the RAM seems to be all fine and dandy. It's back to whatever's pickin' at the drives.

[hms42]

A couple of questions on the machine...

Are you running the latest bios for the board?
Have you tried putting the ram into slot 1a and 2a (without the 2gb chip) (Confirm that the dual channel is both slots of the same color by looking at the manual (which I have not done so.))

Is it possible you have an out of box defective board?

Have you called the manufacture?

This board, right?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138158

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yep, that board.

The BIOS Updater tells me I'm running the current version.

I've tried the RAM every which way.

Re: defective -- I suppose it's possible, but in what way? Everything's functioning.

[hms42]

Ok... Bios updated claims its current. Have you checked the board's web page?

I once had a board that had an internmittent short on it where it would lock up randomly with nothing beyond XP (no manufacture's drivers) installed.

As for the memory, I would definately not want to mix speeds on it.

Did you get the board locally or mail order? If locally, I would consider taking it back and getting and identical board. Just something in that board just is being a hair nitpicky.

Also, what brand is the memory? Name brand or cheaper generic memory? I had a case (about 10 years back) where the board just would not work with cheaper memory and required name brand memory. (Since then, I have only tend to purchase Cosair, Crucial or Kingston because they just work with no problems and those were the manufacture's testing brands.)

[strredwolf.livejournal.com]

If all the comments are correct... I think someone slipped you some mis-labeled RAM. Plus, mismatching the sizes on some mobos slows the whole mess down no matter what.

Ether way, you need two sticks of 2 Gig DDR2, at least 533Mhz or better. Best to replace them all in one go.

Microcenter we'll set aside for a while. Best Buy is highly NOT recommended. And the local mom-and-pop you gotta be careful for.

Instead, go to Newegg (http://www.newegg.com). A few prices on 2 sticks of 2 GB DDR2 Desktop RAM by speed (ground shipping):

Crucial 553Mhz: $78 + $2 shipping.
Kingston 553Mhz: $84 + $2 shipping.
PQI 800Mhz: $66 shipping free.
Muchkin and GData 800Mhz: $70 w/free shipping.
PNY 800Mhz: $72 + $1 shipping
Corsair 800Mhz: $73 w/free shipping.

[denali1.livejournal.com]

Last I recall, modern boards (except for ones based around the Intel Core "iX" arch) have to use memory in pairs. If you're using three chips, that may be an issue.

[denali1.livejournal.com]

Yep, I just checked. The board you're using is dual channel. Memory modules must be used in pairs.

http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb/content.php?S_ID=416

[denali1.livejournal.com]

Oops, wrong link. Same answer, tho.

http://www.biostar-usa.com/app/en-us/mb/content.php?S_ID=419