HOW FUCKING DUMB ARE PEOPLE!?

[filkertom]

Or, Does Utah really need an Official State Gun (the M1911 semiautomatic pistol, no less)?

Comments

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

Sandstrom said. "We need to stop demonizing firearms."

I'm fine with that, as long as we could also stop fetishizing them, which is what Sandstrom's bill aims to do.

[lizziecrowe.livejournal.com]

That thing you just said. YES.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Thirded. And in way too many cases, it's a sexualized fetish.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

I don't think this is what John Lennon meant when he wrote "Happiness is a Warm Gun".

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

My early morning feeling of superiority. As you can't have a gun of over 50 caliber, I can't have a sexual fetish over something so narrow. Actually, that's a pretty disgusting mental image, even for me. Perhaps I need coffee.

[caraig.livejournal.com]

While the M1911 is a fine firearm... yeah, this is kind of over the top. And pretty tasteless in light of the Tucson shootings NOT THREE WEEKS AGO.

[gorgeousgary]

And let's not forget this fine moment in Utah history either...

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

I'm as a big a fan of the M1911 as you'll ever find. Carried one as a sniper, and have actually fired it in a combat situation. I was one of the soldiers who complained bitterly when we switched the M-9.

But this is over the top. Way over the top.

The photo in my icon shows me enjoying the work of another great American weapon designer, Eugene Stoner. He doesn't need a state to memorialize him for the AR-15 series either.

[laurel-potter.livejournal.com]

"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." I don't know where this quote came from, but C3PO always comes to mind, for some reason.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

The credit for this one seems to go to either Lazarus Long, or Robert A. Heinlein. (Yes, I know Long is Heinlein's character. Considering how much he beat up on Long in later books, I suspect that some of the ideas that he put in Woodie's mouth are ones he later decided were complete bunk.)

[laurel-potter.livejournal.com]

That makes sense; I read a lot of Heinlien's stuff, but it's been awhile. It really does sound like something he'd say, bless him.

[stdharma.livejournal.com]

If you have to ask this question, you're not really paying attention.

Stupidity is what got Balloonhead Bachmann re-elected. Stupidity is what keeps A-holes like Lonesome Rhodes Beck laughing all the way to the bank.

While stupidity is universal, I think this country has a concentrated dose of it.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

*sigh* Why not the M1911A1 at least? It has a grip safety and other improvements that make it a significantly safer handgun.

(Yeah, I know, this is less about memorializing John Moses Browning than it is about glorifying Utah's gun culture.)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but, y'see? That's the kind of knowledge that they could at least pretend to apply to this lipstick-on-a-porker situation. Not only do they want a state gun, but it's not the best or safest model of that particular gun. The only thing missing is someone yelling Yeeee-Haw.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

As already mentioned, it's part of memorializing John Browning, resident of Utah, who is recognized in the firearms field as a revolutionary genius. Now personally, I think having a state gun is kind of goofy, but no more goofy than having a state fossil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan#State_symbols_and_nicknames).

That said, what about that particular gun is the makes it not the "best or safest" example of that particular type?

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

That's weird. I thought the MI state fossil was the Petosky stone, which makes sense because that's the only place it's found. But I note that it also says "since 2000", so maybe they changed it for some reason.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

It's listed as the state stone. O_o

[alverant.livejournal.com]

"what about that particular gun is the makes it not the "best or safest" example of that particular type?"

Well based on your description of it, I'd say the problem is that it's too damn good at killing lots of people really quickly. It has no real purpose apart from that. But consider that 99.9999% of the law abiding population won't go around killing lots of people (except for soldiers on duty in a war zone where it's their JOB to kill lots of people really quickly). Is it really something Utah wants representing their state?

I think a rifle that's actually good for hunting would be a better example. In the 19th century when Utah was being settled, did they use pistols or rifles to defend themselves (or attack each other - take your pick)? I'm willing to be the answer is not pistols.

[roman-mclaze.livejournal.com]

Begging the question of the appropriateness of a "State gun" (I don't think you and I would agree on that), I'd argue that the original M1911 is a superior choice than the A1.

First of all, people with only a casual interest in a type of machinery (be it aircraft, or guns, or computers) generally don't recognize variants. Casual observers might recognize a '57 Chevy, but be hard-pressed to identify it as a "150" or "210".

Secondly, acknowledging a specific model (particularly an original) does not preclude acknowledging improvements/modifications. If California were to declare the Stratocaster the official State Guitar, then it would be silly to assume they just mean the original '54 model, unless they specifically said so.

Thirdly, one of the stated purposes of this law was to honor the work of Browning, who was, in fact, kinda sorta brilliant. It was the invention that is historically significant, not the improvement. In fact, one of the things that is so incredible about Browning's designs is how little they've had to evolve over the last century. A safety here, a carrying-handle there, but nothing substantial.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

I suspect when they said M1911 they were talking about the class of firearm itself, not the original M1911 vs the M1911A1 (or even the later "series 80" style with the passive firing pin block).

Besides, the original 1911 did indeed have the grip safety. The changes made from the 1911 to the 1911A1 design were, to the best of my knowledge supplemented by a bit of googling for confirmation:

The sights were enlarged slightly to improve aim.

A shorter hammer spur and a longer grip safety to reduce hammer bite (again, the grip safety already existed as part of the original design spec Browning fulfilled for the Army contract)

The mainspring housing was changed to an arched design instead of flat.

A shorter trigger with finger clearance cuts in the frame to gain a better trigger finger position.

In other words, mostly ergonomic changes brought about by feedback from end users.

None of this makes it any less silly that they've adopted the design as an official state emblem.

Ah, here we go. Before hitting submit I did a bit more digging. Here's an image comparing the two designs:

http://www.m1911.org/images/1911-1911A1text.jpg

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

A non polemic packed response!

Thank you.

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

Someone's gotta defend the People from the Mormons!

[phillip2637.livejournal.com]

Wow...and that's not even one of the states that has its own official dinosaur.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_dinosaurs

[his-spiffyness.livejournal.com]

All you really need is a state bird and a motto, all these other "official state whatevers" seem rather silly.

[purpleranger.livejournal.com]

Apparently, Utah thinks they do.

[tomreedtoon.livejournal.com]

Maybe someone in the state legislature (in between getting free drinks at the local bar) could suggest adopting a State Victim. Propose someone recently killed in that state through gun violence. After all, if a gun is a subject, the victim is an object, and you need both to make a complete sentence.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't they also need a State Verb?

[tomreedtoon.livejournal.com]

I think they already have a State Verb. I am too polite to use it in a public message, but Carla Ulbrich wrote a whole song about it.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

Not in Utah, it isn't

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

All things considered, I'm okay with this.

I do think that it's stupid. But it's not dangerous stupid, as far as I can tell.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

I saw this on Facebook and almost fell over. Not only dumb, but more than a little tasteless less than 3 weeks after Tucson.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

I'm not at all surprised. Their newly-elected Senator (who's a batshit-crazy Republican) just said that if we tone down the violent political rhetoric, the terrorists win. No, I'm not kidding.

[dornbeast.livejournal.com]

Wait. Did he just prove that no matter what happens, nobody should do anything differently?

"If we regulate the banks, the people who made money on subprime mortgages win."

[sffilk.livejournal.com]

Remember, you're talking UTAH! That has a lot to do with it.

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

Pennsylvania was first to propose a state gun, the Pennsylvania long gun, but public opinion shot that down.

So, Utah, if this passes, will be the first state with an official state gun. Is there a public vote on this, or will the committees just wave it on through?

[boywizard.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting for a state poison, and a state incurable disease. Ohio is sadly lacking in this respect.

[james-the-evil1.livejournal.com]

Stupidity abounds.

I saw this right after reading about how Wisconsin prisons have banned inmates from RPGs (role playing games, not rocket propelled grenades) because it might lead to the inmates forming "Dangerous D&D gangs."

No, I'm NOT making it up: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/01/seventh-circuit-rules-dungeons-dragons-a-threat-to-prison-security/

I fear for humanity.

[jazz007.livejournal.com]

The judicial argument on this, at least the way I heard it, is that it's conceivable that a gathering like this could conceivably lead to making it easier for them to plot and/or execute an escape attempt.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Maybe the judge read Knights of the Dinner Table where Bob unknowingly helps plan a robbery because he thought it was for a modern world RPG.

It was a good story. Bob amazed everyone by deducing so much from a set of blueprints including the existence and location of the building's main safe. Newspaper said the robbery was organized by a mastermind. Bob never found out.

[jazz007.livejournal.com]

No one NEEDS a state anything. Except possibly a flag.

"No flag, no country," could also be applied to "No flag, no state."

(Thank you, Eddie Izzard.)

[alverant.livejournal.com]

I think it's worth pointing out that Utah is also the only state in the Union that still uses a firing squad to execute prisoners on a regular basis. A prisoner even fought to be executed in that way instead of lethal injection. Maybe those rifles should be used as the state gun.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

Actually that was overturned, but anyone found guilty before it was overturned can still request it.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

Well, its a great gun, reliable, well built and celebrating 100 years of service, I've owned one.

I'm not sure why a "state gun" but I don't get state bird either. This is one of those "because we can" gestures.

Don't get so worked up people. Most people can't name their state bird. In a year nobody will remember or care.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Cardinal. Didn't even have to look it up. State items (birds, flowers, etc) appear on stamps and state emblems.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

Here its Loons. Its on all sorts of things, but I still meet people who don't know.

But human stupidity generally fails to shock me much anymore.....

[johnpatrickmcp.livejournal.com]

Red Breasted Robin I remember that from first grade.

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

Utah's the state that made miscarriage a prosecutable crime last year. Nothing stupid, hateful, murderous or misogynist is beyond the Tea Hive State.

[johnpatrickmcp.livejournal.com]

Okay the fact that they are wasting time debating this is stupid, yes. But if they want to make it the official state firearm it kind of makes sense. Utah is the home of John Moses Browning a man who made the guns that are still defending the United States armed forces over a century after they were designed. At one point the man was considered the greatest military resource in the country. If Utah wants to honor that man by making his second most influential design the state firearm more power to them.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

Someone needs to write a response to the Weapon Shops