Apparently Not An April Fool's Day Joke

[filkertom]

Presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee believes Americans should be ideologically indoctrinated "at gunpoint".

I sincerely believe something is just horribly broken in some of these people. What the hell has happened to America? I mean, not merely the country, but the notion of America? Yes, yes, I know, various and sundry. It was a rhetorical question. But... jayzus.

(h/t rmjwell)

Comments

[siliconshaman]

Dude...you know all those comments about it being 1934 and the beer-hall putz all over again...?

Yeah, well if he gets elected, it's time to get the f**k out of America, because it's game over. He's got the flag wrapped around him and he's waving the cross...but at heart we know what he is and what all those teabaggers really are.

[wednes]

Wow...even for a twerp like Huckabee, that's crazy.

If Americans had any sort of memory at all, Mike Huckabee wouldn't stand a chance as a prez candidate, if only because of all the mean, stupid things he's said about fat people. Calling fat people names is no way to win over Americans.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Well, why not, Tom? Christians have a long history of converting by the sword. He's just yearning for the good old days... when non-believers didn't have to be tolerated with all that breathing and freedom of choice or speech.

[lizziecrowe.livejournal.com]

Because apparently, they never got past the adage of whomever has the guns makes the rules. And they talk about Liberals taking away rights. *sigh*

[arensb.livejournal.com]

A while back, Paul Graham wrote about The Blub Paradox, about how users of less-powerful programming languages simply don't see what the big deal is about the features that users of more powerful programming languages keep going on about. Thus, a Fortran programmer might not see why recursion in C or Perl is such a cool tool, and a C programmer might not get why Lisp's and JavaScript's closures are so wonderful.

I wonder if there's a similar thing going on with respect to morality: if someone's morality is basically defined by reward and punishment, they may have a hard time understanding the reasoning of someone who is nice to people so that they'll be nice in return in the future. And someone who sees "is it moral?" and "is it legal?" as pretty much equivalent might have a hard time with the concept of unjust laws.

I get the impression that for a lot of people on the far right, morality boils down to "God says so. End of discussion" (where "God" means "my pastor's interpretation of those parts of the Bible that he chooses to bring up").That's not a terribly sophisticated view of morality, and I wonder if that gets in the way of them grappling with issues like the fact that free speech gives Fred Phelps and neonazis the right to spew their hatred, and that it's a good thing that the ACLU is willing to defend them.

Or, in this case, that just because someone has the guns, that doesn't mean they should automatically get to make the rules.

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Huckabee's a politician. You should never mistake what he says, for what he actually believes. It is part of the nature of democracy that politicians say things to gain support, whether they mean them or not.

Which does not mean that it isn't a vile thing to say - just that we cannot tell the difference between Huckabee's beliefs, and pandering to his audience.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

Your point doesn't invalidate Tom's, I don't think. The fact that Huckabee is willing to say such a thing, whether he believes it or not, should be enough to disqualify him for the office. There are lines you don't cross, and that's one of them.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

So it's OK to say anything if it gets you elected, is that what you mean?

Sorry, not buying it. He says it with conviction. He definitely believes what he's saying. He may not impliment them if he had the chance, but he still believes them.

One thing's for sure, his base believes it and if they elect him president they may just impliment what he said on their own.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

If he believes it's appropriate to pander to his audience by saying things like that, that's close enough for me.

(Also, if the audience he's pandering to are Dominionists, that is also close enough for me.)

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

But he seems like such a nice guy!!!! How could such a nice guy spew such insane ideas????

< /sarcasm>

Unfortunately there are way too many people who would agree with him. Gaaah.

[stormsdotter.livejournal.com]

I am appalled by this idiot's ideas.

However, I have to look on the bright side: this moron has shoved his foot so far down his throat he'll have a hard time holding his own in debates.

[nimitzbrood.livejournal.com]

Remember though that we said the same things about members of the Tee Partay in the past and they _still_ got elected to offices. *facepalm*

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

So people may ask, "So, why the outrage?". Simply ask them to watch that clip and remove the word "christian" and replace it with "muslim" and see how they would react.

It's that someone who's seriously considering a run for President would first come anywhere near a radical theocratic group like that then come right out and say that citizens of this country should be forced to listen to anyone say anything "..at gunpoint". If he's joking, it's a very sad joke.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

No, but see, there's a difference between Huckabee saying that and a mullah somewhere saying it: Muslim is evil. (/sarcasm)

Seriously, the true believers? They really do see it that way. For a Muslim to convert at gunpoint is the work of Satan and his demons, but for a Dominionist to do it? That's the Lord's work, His Will made manifest in His Chosen Country. (Israel is not the chosen country, to them. Israel is a domino in their apocalyptic world view.)

This kind of black or white moralizing, this "I'm right, everyone else is wrong, my unimpeachable authority says so" attitude is a direct threat to free thinking peoples and their governments around the world. There's just no reasoning with someone who thinks he has The Truth on his side.

However, here is a really good April Fool's joke

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

Because in Wisconsin, we need to take our laughs where we can get them (besides the idea of palm trees here):

Fleeing reps can take advantage of hospitality, entertainment deals in Duluth (http://wpr.org/news/newsstories.cfm?Message=&search_FromStoryDate=04%2F01%2F11&search_tostorydate=04%2F01%2F11&search_text=&search_topic=#ReturnPage#) (scroll to bottom of the page)

*snerk*

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I suppose Mr. Huckabee hasn't heard the old bromide that one convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. This is appalling.

More than that

[stdharma.livejournal.com]

It's reprehensible and should be held up in a billboard on Times Square with the caption "This is what you will get when you vote for a Dominionist/Corporatist. You know, kinda like the current Governors of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Florida and (sadly) even my own home state of Tennessee. How's that working out for you?"

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Soon as he and the rest of his Gestapo think they are ready, my M4 will be loaded, waiting, and hungry.

"The tree of freedom has to be periodically watered with the blood of tyrants." - Benjamin Franklin.

[nimitzbrood.livejournal.com]

*sigh* I dearly hope to not see the application of the fourth box in my lifetime but it may come to that.

If it does though...well let's just say that a good majority of the people I know are natural hunters, ex-military, medieval blade trained, or martial artists.

Not as good as a fully trained army but quite nasty in the right positions.

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

How anyone intelligent can take people like him and Palin actually seriously is totally beyond me.

[maiac.livejournal.com]

Anyone intelligent doesn't. The problem is there are so many un intelligent people in the U.S. and in the snooze media.

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

But remember, TomS - the REAL outrage are all those liberals who actually take Repubs and TeaPees at their words. "How DARE you quote my racist speech - that makes YOU the real racist here!" "You're anti-woman because you accurately described the consequences of my draconian anti-abortion laws!" "You oppose my 'Christianity is the official state religion' bill - why do you hate America?"

Now it's the right apologists saying "Okay, so he said he wants to force us at gunpoint to listen to and believe in a 1950s-White-Christian-Male propaganda version of American history - tee hee hee, what a kidder, you libs just can't take a joke!"

Well if it's such a goddamn joke, why is it that the "liberal media" saw fit to REMOVE that little knee-slapper before circulating his speech for public consumption?

[johnridley.livejournal.com]

I'm sure he'd also be totally OK with Islamic nations forcing indoctrination at gunpoint as well, right?

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

This is not entirely fair, but were it anyone but Mr. "Aw Shucks" Huckabee, I'd be more alarmed than I am. What I can't get over is why people make this show of being in the running--and then say such completely stupid shit outside their own living rooms. Santorum is another great one for this. I never know what to make of Huckabee.

David Barton is unequivocally a twit, though.

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

Should we take any hope from the fact they realized publicizing this gaffe was a mistake, and edited it *out* to cover it up?
That suggests they *do* know how it sounds to the rest of us.
Not that it stops them spreading that rhetoric amongst themselves, so to speak.
Of course it brings up interesting questions about what would happen if him, or any of his fellow travelers there, were given the keys to the national arsenals.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but it's not a matter of shame -- it's a matter of knowing how bad it will sound when they get caught. There have been far, far too many incidents where someone on the far right has said something just awful, and then covered it up, or downplayed it, or tried to set a false equivalence with something someone on the political left did, or said words to the effect of, "I'm sorry if anyone was offended" which is not an apology at all.

As you say, a mistake -- something they can be caught at. This is why I cut them very little slack; they do know the difference between right and wrong, and they just don't care.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

Speaking as someone who is very pro-gun rights I despise people who talk of using them in such a manner, even when it's "just" hyperbole.

I'd like to see politicians (and I can think of more than a few from each end of the aisle) like that stripped naked and horsewhipped through town. And no, that's not hyperbole.

[caraig.livejournal.com]

I'm inclined to believe that Huckabee was making a 'joke.'

The same way Rush makes jokes. The same way Glenn Beck makes jokes. The same way Michael Savage makes jokes. The same way Ann Coulter makes jokes.

The authoritarian sense of humor needs a lot of work, I think. Quality material, this isn't.

The only sad thing about this is that Huckabee's career is not in the crapper. He's going to somehow get out of this smelling like roses. And I am also concerned for people on the left who are unhappy, unbalanced, desperate, and/or mentally unwell, who will hear this and react with an aim towards self-defense. This eliminationist rhetoric is just going to get worse and worse and more and more bold the longer these people aren't called on it.

Four words

[capplor.livejournal.com]

"Jim Bakker's Gay Lover"

I'm amazed at how very thoroughly that little news item was disappeared.

[signy1.livejournal.com]

A lot of people have made the comment "What if a *Muslim* said that?" And yeah, I can just imagine the hysteria that would ensue... but supposing we took religion out of it? What if, say, a liberal suggested that America be forced, at gunpoint, to watch a documentary on evolution? Or forget that; that has quasi-religious overtones. How about global warming? Or the godforsaken hells that are overseas sweatshops? Or any of the myriad other issues nobody wants to talk about. I'm willing to bet that our hypothetical politician would be pilloried in the media before the sun had set. There'd be no 'Oh, you can't take a joke' excuses, and no slack cut. And *rightly so.* That sort of Miniluv Thought Police crap deserves none.

[old-fortissimo.livejournal.com]

*Sigh*
Huckabee is not a simplistic, one-issue moron.

I have great respect for his taking on the entrenched interests in his state in attempting to change some truly reprehensible repressive tax structures when he was Governor...unsuccessfully.

I had some moderate respect for Huckabee, but I am getting over it.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

I'm in the middle of rereading Turtledove's Special Orders series. Fortunately, Hucklebee hasn't yet demonstrated himself to be as nutty as Jake Featherston.

But this goes far enough that I think he should be soundly denounced and made to forget about higher - or lower - office.