Double Spoiler Thread: GAME OF THRONES and HPatDHp2

[filkertom]

First, there was the first episode of the George R. R. Martin adaptation last night on HBO. Second, there's the advance clip from Deathly Hallows Part 2.

Game of Thrones looks pretty good. The vibe is right. It starts out with a quick scene dealing with the White Walkers, and soon after that we get Sean Bean as Eddard/Ned, a superb casting. Dude's got presence.

The other characters are great as well. Top to bottom, the acting is solid, the dialogue crisp, the scenery gorgeous. It's likely slower than most fantasy epics, but it's taking its time to get to its destination, knowing that the journey is more important. The politics are fascinating, the decadence properly decadent, the characters by turns noble and awkward and conniving and ambitious and loving and sleazy. Fun fun fun.

On the other hand, DHp2 continues in the tradition of the last two movies, i.e., making the best of Bad Book Stew. Grim, grim, grim. Not that this is a bad thing. I notice they're desperately throwing Ginny in there. And they've already made Snape's death more heroic, and they're apparently re-shooting the Crapalogue, as it "didn't work".

I realize I'm bitter about this, and it's not just because of the romantic pairings. I simply do not like the way the series ended. I think the last two books have some exciting and gripping scenes, but are, for the most part, bad -- badly plotted, badly characterized, clumsily set up and unsatisfying in the payoff.

And it ticks me off, because I love the Wizarding World. I have a fairly extensive collection of HP fanfic (yeah, it's 95% Harry/Hermione -- Mary Sue me). I have the Harry/Hermione bookends that were recalled on account of lead paint -- I just don't lick 'em, is all. I can talk about HP with my dad, who discovered it and fell in love with it independently of me. He has all of the movies, all of the books, all of the books on audio, he listens to them again and again, he's got a Potter collage he made himself hanging on the wall above his desk, he's got a Hogwarts train set.

I can share this with my dad, dammit. And it ticks me off that I can't let myself love the last two books as much as he does.

It pains me that I feel I have to see the last film for the sake of cultural literacy, rather than a rip-roaring finale. At least it's given a lot of excellent actors work for ten years, and inspired a hell of a lot of fanfic for every flavor.

I sincerely and genuinely hope that those of you who are really looking forward to it, love the hell out of it. And I hope I enjoy it myself, as well.

Comments

[nubianamy.livejournal.com]

I liked the second half of the seventh book very much, so I expect to enjoy the movie as much as it is possible to enjoy a truncated version of such a story. I really appreciated not having to cut the book down to 3 hours. I'm a big HP fanfic reader too, but it tends toward the slashier sides of things.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Hee. I've read a little. Even wrote one, once -- a Snarry. I'll probably post that soon.

[nubianamy.livejournal.com]

Woo, I'd love to read that.

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

I actually disagree with you greatly on GoT. I found the pilot quite problematic, both writing wise and production-decision wise.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I'm curious why. I very much like the fact that it's "low" fantasy, i.e., grittier than the Tolkienesque tales, and I love the way it looks.

[pandoradeloeste.livejournal.com]

One problem I had was Daenerys's wedding night. IIRC she and Drogo had something approaching consensual sex (not entirely because of the huge honking power differential and o hai her brother basically sold her off, but as close as possible under the circumstances). It was actually somewhat sweet, and I've heard it posited as the first consensual act of her young life, after having everything else scripted and controlled by Viserys. And it gets turned into a rape scene where the one word that Drogo knows in her language, "no", which in the book he uses to ask for her consent, gets turned against her. I'm not sure why they decided to change it to put a rape in, but I suspect it was to be ~*edgy*~ rather than for any character development reasons. Since I don't really like watching rape, not a win for me.

[http://users.livejournal.com/__kat__/]

That really bothered me too. If I hadn't read the books I'm not sure Drogo would ever be able to redeem himself to me as a character based on that beginning.

The other thing that bugs me is Tyrion. I like the actor and I thought his performance was wonderful but isn't he supposed to be ugly and a hunchback? His problems stemmed from not just being a dwarf, which is bad enough in the setting, but actually being monstrous looking on top of that. (not that I really blame anyone for not wanting to deal with the prosthetic work needed to do that)

[odanu.livejournal.com]

Tyrion's looks don't bother me. I always thought that was mostly seeks esteem issues until... But there was an awful lot of gratuitous sex, and the rape made me furious on two levels... Not just subverting the love story, but reducing Drago to a one dimensional savage.

[muddlewait.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear about Snape getting a somewhat better deal in the last film. I was *really* upset that the movies didn't give him his "I am not a coward" scene at the end of Half-Blood Prince. What a shame.

I was also deeply disappointed by Deathly Hallows -- nice to know I'm in good company. I actually think all the major flaws in the series can be traced back to Rowling's understandable, but unfortunate, failure to kill Arthur Weasley instead of Sirius at the end of book 5. She knew it had to happen (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/20026225/ns/today-wild_about_harry/), and decided to spare us some pain instead of allowing us to learn from it. I think that, at that point, she started becoming afraid of what she knew she needed to say to tell her story, and it showed.

I suppose a lot of what ultimately goes wrong with the series has to do with a reluctance to face some kinds of emotional pain. Harry survives Voldemort's initial attack basically because his mother was willing to die for him; based on what I know of Rowling, I think she desperately hopes that a mother's love can save a child from anything. Me, I hearken back to Watership Down, and the quote in my userpic. Too bad, since the end of Book 4 was brave in the extreme in dealing with such pain.

Game of Thrones seemed pretty cool. Loved that map in the opening credits. And I can't wait to see Gregor, Loras, and especially Brienne.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

The map in the opening titles was incredible, wasn't it? I imagined the production team showing that to George R. R. the first time, watching his face. I imagined George R. R., seeing his world literally rise into being.

I don't necessarily think killing Arthur was the main problem from which all others sprung, although I can see the case for that. :) My largest complaints are:

• The characters were heading off in a different direction from her "grand plan", and she didn't seem to realize it until the end of Book Five, and -- rather than change the plan and follow where her characters were going -- she stuck to the plan, dragging her characters rather unnaturally back from where they'd gone. Kinda like making them wear costumes they'd outgrown.
• The events in the last two books especially rely on things going a lot too conveniently. The whole riff with Who's Master Of The Elder Wand. The Taboo. The Doe Ex Machina (if a Death Eater's patronus could find Harry, why couldn't any Death Eater's patronus find Harry? They could follow it right to the tent). Pretty much everything Ron said or did in the last two books.
• The last book might have been retitled Harry Potter and How His Bumbling, Traitorous Sidekick Saved The Day And Got The Girl. Or Weasleys Triumphant. Without even getting into his stupidity, greed, gluttony and general incompetence, Ron's sudden concern for house elves and his speaking Parceltongue by mimicking Harry make no sense at all. The timing of his return is asinine (he's supposedly following Hermione's voice, talking to Harry, at a time when Harry is off in the woods by himself and in fact underwater). And in what universe is matronly housewife Molly Weasley able to take down Bellatrix?

Sorry. Just pisses me off, is all.

I second that emotion

[paul krausnick (from livejournal.com)]

Yeah, Molly taking down Bellatrix pissed me off too. I wanted Neville to do it as payback for his parents. But I guess Rowling wanted to show the power of a mother's love, kind of like Ripley vs. the Alien Queen in Aliens 2.

Re: I second that emotion

[muddlewait.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I think the basic idea is that Rowling magic can get a real boost from the degree of motivation of the wielder. I happen to think this is kind of a dangerous and potentially victim-blaming idea, but there it is.

[muddlewait.livejournal.com]

Heh. Yeah, the seventh book really was pretty terrible in terms of making the pieces fit. That Elder Wand swap thing... yeesh. What a mess.

Also, I love the term "Crapalogue", which is new to me.

I guess what I resent the most, as you seem to, is what happened to Ron as a character, and I think that more than anything is something you can blame on Arthur's survival. I never had much H vs. R relationship investment as far as Hermione goes, but I think Ron deserved a better story, and so many things would've worked so much better had Arthur died in book 5. Ron and Harry would've had a new legitimate source of tension, but also shared experience, between them, and I think they both would certainly have patched over their differences swiftly and decisively once they realized how much they both wanted to fight to keep Hermione from suffering the pain of a murdered parent herself. Which could lead to a pretty cool, if not exactly original, dynamic.

Hermione: "Stop fighting!"

Harry and Ron: "We have! We've decided we love and respect each other because we both love and respect you. We're going to fight to keep you, and people like you, as safe as we can from the kind of damage we've both suffered. SOMEone's parents need to live through this."

-pause-

"So, uh. How exactly do we, you know, do that? 'Cause the two of us aren't exactly wellsprings of ideas."

[odanu.livejournal.com]

Somewhere in an earlier book, Mrs Weasley in mentioned as having been 'the greatest witch of her generation' Never underestimate a frumpy housewife. Her housewifery is about choice, not competence.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Somewhere in an earlier book, Mrs Weasley in mentioned as having been 'the greatest witch of her generation'.

Ooh, I have to challenge you on that. I've debated the Molly versus Bellatrix scene to some depth and it fails several ways. One being how there's absolutely no prior evidence as to Molly's prowess at duelling. Or being a 'great witch'.

Can you tell us where this quote is in the books please?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I notice they're desperately throwing Ginny in there.

Yes, she appeared, what, FOUR times in that trailer?!? Wow. Unprecedented.

I feel faintly nauseous every time I see Ginny or an attempt at H/G in the movies, it's so *forced*. As well as unappealing and bland.

And they've already made Snape's death more heroic ...

Yes, it's wonderful to behold the continuing canon corrections that the film people make to Rowling's bad work. Vindication!

They've made other fixes too ... in particular - from what I read of a review - "The final showdown between Harry and Voldemort is much extended from the book, as Voldemort chases Harry throughout several different parts of the Hogwarts castle. At one moment, Harry throws them both off a high tower, and their duel reaches its climax in the castle courtyard.". Well, they had to do *something* to make the ending something more than Harry giving a learned discourse on exploiting the loopholes of arcane and never before seen wand lore. The final clash would *never* have worked as Rowling wrote it. (It never did.)

... and they're apparently re-shooting the Crapalogue, as it "didn't work".

Oh my goodness, I never saw that! Wow, thanks! One more nail in the coffin!!

It pains me that I feel I have to see the last film for the sake of cultural literacy, rather than a rip-roaring finale.

I haven't seen DH.1 yet. I suppose I'll end up going to the theatre to see DH.2, just for the final opportunity to grab some HP 'atmosphere'. Although I expect the stomach to rumble when bland Ginny is put through her paces. And it'll be hard to see sparkling Hermione claimed by Ron. Sigh.