New HP AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS PART 2 Trailer

[filkertom]

A lot of obvious changes. I like the fact that the dragon is albino -- it's been living in the caverns of Gringotts for Ragnok knows how long. And I love Snape's cape-swirl vanish. As for the rest, we'll see.

Thoughts?

Comments

[wednes]

I love it.
Though if I hadn't read the book, I'd be pissed about the spoiler.

I'm delighted that there was a snippet of Molly v Bellatrix.
I am SO looking forward to that.

[zenturbo.livejournal.com]

My only wish is that they get the fight between Bellatrix and Molly Weasley right. Based on the trailer, I'm hopeful.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I detest that fight, I think it's broken on several levels, but ... according to the comments of an audience who previewed the movie a few weeks back the Molly/Bellatrix scene apparently drew 'raucous applause', I believe it went down well. More's the pity.

[james-the-evil1.livejournal.com]

Just curious, what is it you dislike about the fight? Do you mean its portrayal in the film, or the scene in the book?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

The scene in the book.

It's a horrible cliche - mummy vanquishing the superior fighter with an onrush of mummy love. And I detested the way that some of the most sycophantic HP fans squealed when Rowling gave an interview telling everyone how clever she, Rowling, had been in writing the scene. Just a personal experience that coloured things for me, I came across a mob of gushing pro-Jo fans who were singing her praises after Rowling instructed them on what to say. :-)

But the principal reason for my rancor lies in the fact that the scene is simply broken; it doesn't hold up. It's *not* a case of Molly Weasley suddenly getting in a lucky strike, or having the magical equivalent of a moment of adrenalin-fuelled strength (such as we know happens in the real world). The Weasley housewife duels with Bellatrix for an *extended period*. Bellatrix is a talented duellist and a vicious killer. Molly has NO DUELLING EXPERIENCE OR TALENT whatsoever. And yet they fight, exchanging spells back and forward, for quite some time:

Mrs. Weasley threw off her cloak as she ran, freeing her arms, Bellatrix spun on the spot, roaring with laughter at the sight of the new challenger.

"OUT OF MY WAY!" shouted Mrs. Weasley to the three girls, and with a simple swipe of her wand she began to duel. Harry watched with terror and elation as Molly Weasley's wand slashed and twisted, and Bellatrix Lestrange's smile faltered and became a snarl. Jets of light flew from both wands, the floor around the witches' feet became hot and cracked; both woman were fighting to kill.

Molly has NEVER been depicted in the series has having any fighting prowess; her skills are in the kitchen only. :) In this scene we see that she only throws off her cloak right before engaging Bellatrix, so it would appear she wasn't really fighting (her hardest) even in this final Hogwarts battle. The duel between the two women is a *lengthy* thing, wands slashing and twisting, jets of light, enough time for the floor to become 'hot and cracked'. Time for 'hundreds of people' to line the walls and watch. Time for repartee between the two combatants.

Rowling wanted to have a cool image of mummy love emerging and triumphing over evil, and I guess the idea was for Molly to summon the strength in her desperation to protect Ginny. But what Rowling ended up writing was a lengthy battle where it's clear that this is no surge of strength, no sudden adrenaline-fuelled moment of clarity, not even a lucky strike - Molly Weasley is in a lengthy duel with Bellatrix and is showing fighting prowess that she'd NEVER been shown to have.

Not only is there an absolute and complete LACK of ANY evidence of Molly having duelling ability over the entire series, we can also deduce an absence of such from all of those other times when Molly's children were in danger and the Order came to the rescue - without Molly. If Molly *was* an accomplished fighter then she would have turned up at the Ministry at the end of OotP to defend her darlings. Or she would have been summoned with Bill and the others to defend the castle at the end of HBP. But no. Molly was only ever in her element when she was in the kitchen.

The Molly/Bellatrix bout is just one of the most egregious scenarios in DH where Rowling chucked in a favoured feel-good image without any concerns for broken continuity or logical consistency. And thus it attracts my ire and contempt. :-)

[james-the-evil1.livejournal.com]

I'll agree with you on the "no actual showing" but she WAS an OotP member so mebbe she had previous battles.

Still, I see your point.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

... she WAS an OotP member so mebbe she had previous battles.

Anyone who wants to believe in that scene has to cross their fingers, haul out the microscope and read between the lines, fantasising that Molly was a skilled fighter but we never, ever, ever, EVER get shown a SINGLE GLIMPSE of her abilities in this area. Even though we see a lot of Molly in the series.

Shucks, Ginny turned out to be almost entirely useless in the fights but with her, even, Rowling at least had various characters *telling* us - even if it wasn't borne out in Ginny's actual deeds - that the girl was 'powerful', etc. But with Molly - not a whisper.

But that's why I made the point of highlighting all of those Order missions where the capable duellists of the Order were needed ... to save the children, INCLUDING GINNY. And Molly is NEVER SEEN in those battles. Never. This is a case where absence of evidence is clearly evidence of the absence of Molly's battle skills.

But then when Ginny is threatened one last time - her mum turns up and saves the day with unforeseen fighting skills. Preposterous.

Nah, Rowling didn't have a clue about Molly/Bellatrix or Molly's duelling abilities until she sat down to start writing the last book. And by then she just didn't care any more in having things fit. Just *one line* by Ron, Fred, someone, even in the same book, about how Molly had been 'captain of the Hogwarts duelling club back in the day', say, would have at least been SOMETHING. But Rowling didn't even try. Not with Molly/Bellatrix, not with most of the book. :-(

Enough throwing UPPER CASE at you :-). But I hope you realise, in reading this far, you've made a MAGICAL VOW to stand up with me in the theatres and shout WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH when Bellatrix goes down. Okay? We'll report back here after we've done it. It's a pact we have here.

(I know that anyone who calls themselves 'evil', Mr. james_the_evil1, must surely be in agreement on this course of action. Now that I've convinced you as to the farcical nature of the scene.)

:-)

[timewalker.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know about James, but you have convinced me to shout it. Of course, since i won't be seeing it in the theater, I will only be incurring my wife's wrath when we see it on DVD...

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Hee. :-) Well, even if you convince only your wife, that's still one more person converted! :-)

[muddlewait.livejournal.com]

I share your point of view, but I apply it primarily to Lily Potter.

During Voldemort's attack, how, exactly, did Lily turn the tables on the greatest wizard murderer ever? Could it be that she was a smart lady willing to use a magic that required not only the ultimate sacrifice, but brains and talent and knowledge and opportunity -- maybe something involving an old and powerful secret that, as a mother trying to find ways to protect her child from Voldemort, she'd long sought after? Perhaps even something someone may have been as hesitant to teach her as Slughorn was when he told Tom Riddle of Horcruxes? No, none of that. She did it with All-Powerful Self-Sacrificing Love Magic, specially available to anyone who loves enough. Unlike all the terrible parents too selfish to use it to prevent the deaths of their children. Harry proves this, of course, when he renders the entire army of Death Eaters powerless by being willing to die to stop them. (Like no one else had ever thought, or been willing, to do this.)

I get a real negative vibe from the subtextual blame I sense in these books being leveled at people whose loved ones die. I also find the whole model of love in the books a less than useful way of thinking about how love actually works. Love that means something takes more than just intense feelings, a lot of secrets, and one big sacrifice.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Well, the Lily Potter sacrifice is just another Rowling error. The series - particularly the last book - are full to the brim with 'em.

The whole Lily sacrifice thing is horrible. Rowling's ethics are really twisted and ugly here.

Harry proves this, of course, when he renders the entire army of Death Eaters powerless by being willing to die to stop them.

That's not quite true; Harry's just-like-Lily's-only-completely-different sacrificial protection only works to protect the castle defenders against VOLDEMORT. Even though Rowling fails even on that detail. Why is Harry casting protego shields to protect Voldemort's "would-be victims", Seamus and Hannah, if he knows that they are protected? He casts another charm to shield Molly Weasley from the dark lord. Why? Why, when two seconds later Harry is telling everyone that they are all protected from Voldemort, courtesy of his suddenly unveiled sacrificial love magic?

Also, the same Voldemort whom we're supposed to believe is impotent quite merrily flings the good guys around like pebbles:

he saw McGonagall, Kingsley and Slughorn blasted backward, flailing and writhing through the air, as Voldemort's fury at the fall of his last, best lieutenant exploded with the force of a bomb ...

But, uhm, no, Voldemort can't hurt anyone. Even though these three are 'blasted' with the 'force of a bomb'. See, if Voldemort had blasted them into the castle walls they would have, uhm, been protected somehow, their bodies not smashed up. Yeah. Okay. We believe you, Harry.

It's all rubbish. Rowling wasn't even trying at this point. She didn't care about consistency. She wanted to throw in the Harry/Lily parallel so she just did it, as a disjointed factoid.

I get a real negative vibe from the subtextual blame I sense in these books being leveled at people whose loved ones die. I also find the whole model of love in the books a less than useful way of thinking about how love actually works. Love that means something takes more than just intense feelings, a lot of secrets, and one big sacrifice.

Yeah. James died trying to protect his family, he died fighting the dark lord. No protection. Lily didn't try to fight, she didn't try to protect her son - she just offered herself as a 'sacrifice'. Knowing that her death wouldn't save Harry, that her death would be meaningless. Knowing that her sacrifice wasn't even *accepted*.

For Rowling that was the difference. James strived to protect his family, he dies, that's it, so long James. Lily acts like a helpless useless sacrificial lamb, super-dooper-abstract-save-your-hands magic materialises to save her son.

So, yeah. Tonks, Lupin, Fred, Snape, Dennis Creevey, anyone else who died fighting for justice - they were all foolish in that they strived to defeat the dark lord, they tried to make the world a better place by stopping the bad guys. Their deaths aren't anywhere near as important, as significant, as a Lily/Harry offering up his life as a useless gesture with absolutely no practical benefit.

Have you read Rowling's muddled explanation of how Lily's sacrifice was supposed to work? I'm actually somewhat *offended* when I read it. It's here (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/features/interviews/jkr1). I'm repelled by her sad ethics, her morals, whatever you'd call it. Don't fight back. Don't resist. Don't try and make the world a better place. Don't protect your loved ones. That's acting like an 'animal'. Just close your eyes, act helpless, don't take up your wand in defence, don't throw yourself onto the attacker, no, just offer yourself as a sacrifice and lo, the author god will step in and produce magic that no-one has ever seen before.

Pfah.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering how scared the effects guys were of the Snape/McGonagall duel, myself.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

Yeah. This is begging for IMAX. Although that may be overwhelming...

Movie-Harry is rather darker than I remember the one in the book being. :/

I notice they're not *giving* a rating.

[susan-the-rogue.livejournal.com]

Based on the fact that I nearly started bawling my eyes out when I saw Fred's body in the trailer, I'm probably going to need a lot of tissues when I go see this.

And I'm so very much looking forward to Mrs. Weasley kicking Bellatrix's ass. *insert evil laughter here*

[nubianamy.livejournal.com]

That is one awesome cape swirl. I like the knocking-V-off-the-balcony scene.

Also, I'm not sure if this is because they are using two different curses/spells, but in one battle scene, V's wand is casting a blue light and Harry's wand, a red light. I appreciate they didn't give in to the obvious red-bad, blue-good from Star Wars.

[sveethot.livejournal.com]

I saw this last night - how on earth did I miss Snape's fancy exit? My one hope is that Snape finally gets some credit.

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

Note the last bit of music... it's the theme.

Usually it's played on a tinkling xylophone (I think). It's spritely and magic-y, evoking feelings of faeries and enchantment.

Not this time. This time it's a mournful french horn. This is war music; the time of enchantment is over.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Plus, that's actually Hedwig's theme, and...well...