Osama bin Laden Has Been Killed

[filkertom]

Here's your news day.

So very many things can and will be and already have been said about this, especially given the irony of it occurring on the eight anniversary of George W. Bush's "Mission Accomplished" show. What occurs to me, though, is this:

• Now, maybe, just maybe, we can start boldly saying "enough already" and start removing ourselves from Iraq and Afghanistan and maybe even Pakistan.
• There will always be another bad guy to rise and take his place. Stop committing to permanent warfare based on chasing shadows. That's what bin Laden was able to do to us for years, and our nation has suffered for it.
• Some people are already protesting about the directive that bin Laden's remains "will be handled in accordance with Islamic tradition". Well, it only makes sense. He's already going to be a martyr to his followers; there is absolutely no reason to rile up those who otherwise would not consider him a martyr by desecrating his remains further.
• There is already a hue and cry from the Right about President Obama "politicizing" this. I do believe we've had enough precedent over the past eight years of the Republicans doing precisely the same thing. Moreover, there's already this (h/t jblaque).

Thoughts? Please keep it civil. And no unseemly gloating. This is not a cause for celebration; it's a cause for sighing with relief that this portion of a long and tragic story is over, and for moving on.

Comments

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

My take on it (tl:dr It's justified but not something to rejoice about. Take extra care if you're in a likely target area for reprisals.)

Best visual (from The NYT via Balloon Juice):



Best verbal reaction: over on FB: "Did the President of the United States really just say 'By Grabthar's hammer, you have been avenged'?"

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Oh, that is good indeed. On the other end of the spectrum, I just revised the post for a link to a typical Faux News screencap.

Pardon me, I'm skeptical

[realinterrobang.livejournal.com]

After 10 years of killing "Al Qaeda's #3" and "Oh yes, we're going to close Guantanamo Bay...no we're not" and so on back to the beginning of the Bush regime and beyond, how do I know the US government isn't lying its face off this time? Shorter me: Pix or GTFO.

Re: Pardon me, I'm skeptical

[emiofbrie.livejournal.com]

They are probably lying. It's likely Bin Laden died back in December 2001 from lack of access to kidney dialysis (he had bad kidneys, and didn't exactly have access to good medical care while on the run).

But that didn't jive with the powers that be, so they propped him up as a real-life Emmanuel Goldstein. Notice in the videos over the years, "Bin Laden" never really looked the same way twice.

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

Enough, already, indeed. This is no cause for celebration. Cause for celebration is when our people are home, when we can travel with dignity, speak with privacy, practice whatever religion we please - including Islam - without retribution, and can serve our country and just generally *live* without worry for what our gender is, was, or who our spouse or spice is or are. I don't expect to get all that at once, but I do damn well expect and demand that, in my lifetime, and sooner rather than later...

The Current Occupant made promises about all these things. It's time for him to put up or shut up. Then again, I'm not above going around him, or doing whatever is necessary - with a very strong preference for peaceful methods - to be the change I wish to see.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

"How dare you politicize the death of a man who's actions we politicized in life?"

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

IOKIYAR is alive and well.

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

I'm...wary. And I'm not sure how significant killing bin Laden is. He's not the boogeyman now that he was even 5 years ago. Not that I'm saying we should've given up on locating him, just...I don't know that this is the solution people seem to think it is.

I'm waiting for another couple shoes to drop.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Indeed. Security forces are on alert, and it's going to be a bit twitchy for awhile. OBL's much more an inspirational martyr at this point, and we could all do with a little less inspiration. On the other hand, as Keith points out (http://foknewschannel.com/bin-laden-dead/):

The President is right to raise security levels at US installations and bases. However, remember the premise of Al-Qaeda is the long-planned, meticulously-choreographed “spectacular.” While an attempt at vengeance should not be discounted, it should be pointed out that what we would call in normal-human speak ‘a quick turnaround’ is not their forte. A terrorist in a hurry is a terrorist who drops the backpack bomb when he gets chased out of the subway. A terrorist in a hurry is a terrorist who lights himself and not his underwear bomb on fire. A terrorist in a hurry is a terrorist who locks his house keys in his car-bomb in Times Square.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings. I wonder: could he have been captured and tried? Perhaps not. Celebrating an execution is sick, though, and something I hope more of us are ashamed of. (NYC firefighters get a pass on that one, far as I'm concerned.)

I am still waiting on the reaction from the Arab/Islamic world. There's not very much over at al-Jazeera English as yet.

As to the US political reaction, my guess is that nothing much changes. Stalin's death did not end the Cold War, and even Khrushchev's de-Stalinization was not enough. Maybe a few conservatives swing over to Obama's side.

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

I have mixed feelings. I wonder: could he have been captured and tried?

I can't even imagine what a nightmare that would have been. I'm not saying necessarily that "it's going to be a logistical quagmire" is reason enough to kill someone outright, but thinking about having him in custody for any length of time...yikes.

Sums it up.....

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

Newsflash! Emmanuel Goldstein is dead! And we are no longer at war with Eurasia!


Seriously, an elderly diabetic in late stage renal failure has been hiding out in caves with his pet dialysis machines for ten years? His funeral was old new in 2001.

I'm sad to see Obama stoop to this. :(

Re: Sums it up.....

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Except that he was caught in a highly secure compund, not a cave. And the news was reporting that he was in good health at the time of the firefight that resulted in his death.

Aside from those two minor details, yep. :-P

[damullet.livejournal.com]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xITNIJBTnSM&t=380

I can't read any word of that without thinking of this clip.

[sdelmonte]

The instant triumphalism is worrisome. We haven't learned a thing in the past ten years about how the world feels about the US. The displays of celebration only reinforce how we are viewed, I think.

Part of me wishes he had been left alone, since he is now a martyr and was till now not very relevant (unless you agree with the "experts" who say he was still the king of the hill). At the same time, he was living in relative luxury and safety in a big city and not in total exile in a cave, so maybe he was less irrelevant than I thought. Still, his death may help the cause, or it make things worse. Either way I don't feel all that safe today. But then it's not like the bad guys aren't gunning for us all the time.

If nothing else, he earned his death. I don't celebrate it, but neither do I shed a tear for him. And I will not miss that unique feeling of total fear any time I heard his voice on the radio. Yes, it was only propaganda, and yes, I admit he was basically a bogeyman. But he more than anyone else represented a way of life devoted to death. And even now, he unnerves me as nothing else can.

[juglore.livejournal.com]

911 the American telephone emergency number became 9 11 01 the day the world changed. I just watched President Obama announce the death of Osama bin Laden who lead the group that brought down the towers. And when did this happen? May Day the international cry for help.

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

May Day is a day to celebrate the workers, those who keep the place running.

And it took a lot of people to find and eliminate B-L.

And we are all in tooth range for any biting this particular rabid, wounded animal may do before it is finally put down.....

One HELL of an announcement to be woken by this morning, tho'...
It's 2nd MAy here, and a substitute St Georges Day BTW.

[jeffreycwells.livejournal.com]

This changes absolutely nothing for the better. The man wasn't a military genius that his death cripples the forces allied with him; he is a symbol of audacity and is in this unchanged (or even rendered more powerful) in death.

[tesral.livejournal.com]

Sadly the war mongers will stop the slaughter not the least. There is too much of our money to waste and to stuff in their pockets.

[old-fortissimo.livejournal.com]

It does close a chapter, it does hand an answer to the question of how tough President Obama has been on the war against Al Qaeda and allow him to be seen as the C-I-C. Its symbolic and political significance is not insignificant.

Its actual significance in the was against terrorists? Not so much, sadly; yes, we are likely to see a renewed effort to strike against us.

I try to eschew schadenfreude but I am not unhappy at his death.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, about exactly this. And the quotes from ashkitty and darthgm.

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

What's the Mark Twain quote--"I would never wish a man dead, but have read some obituaries with great pleasure."

This one?

[darthgm.livejournal.com]

"I've never killed a man, but I've read many an obituary with a great deal of satisfaction."
— Clarence Darrow

[lizziecrowe.livejournal.com]

Eric and I stayed up last night to watch the President give his address after WSPA-2 called us to tell us to turn on the news. Great thing to come home to, and even better for the families of those who lost loved ones to this fucker.

I also LIKE the fact that Obama made a point to say that this was never and will never be a war on Islam, but a war on extremists and violence. I thought that was good form.

[johnridley.livejournal.com]

I think this is utterly irrelevant. I don't think a single thing will change on either side as a result of this. I don't think he's been a driving force on the terrorism side for years, and I think the government is too drunk on emergency funding and powers to stop the wars.

It's ridiculous to think that we've been at war so that we could kill this one guy, so why would we think that we'd stop fighting the war because he's dead?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

It is indeed more symbolic than anything at this point. And, unfortunately, it cannot help but be politicized, as bin Laden's very existence has been politicized by both parties since the Reagan administration. In a way, it's just counting coup.

However, it also takes the invocation of bin Laden as an existent threat off the table, both politically and realistically if not as a martyr, and I'm satisfied at the nullification of that particular boogieman.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

So once again a Democrat had to clean up a mess created, in part, by Republicans. In less than 2 years Obama did what W "claimed" he was trying to do in over 7.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Sorry if this was unnecessarily politicized (I noticed that I was late for the train and hit submit before I was ready). But for most of W's presidency OBL was used as a tool to gain support. I'm sure people here remember the suspicious timing between when W was dipping in the polls and when a new tape would surface. What really drove the point home for me was after the 2004 election my homestate newspaper printed an editorial from a person who said the November surprise tape made him change his vote from Kerry to W. Considering how W acted, I have to wonder how serious he was about OBL. He acted with more zeal towards Iraq than getting the person responsible for 9/11.

What's shocking were the deniers. The people who question the timing or dismiss the importance. After over 7 years of using him as the boogieman to scare people into voting for him, his death is seen as a stunt and refuse to credit Obama at all for this victory. I think they're mad because it shows Obama doing what W didn't and how now their favorite spectre is gone. IOKIYAR continues.

[sdelmonte]

Another note: lord, there is a LOT of jingoism out there today, from quarters that I don't expect it from. A baseball writer decided that talking about yesterday's games was trivial in the light of this. As if the games aren't trivial in the face of things like last week's tornadoes? There is little sense of perspective today.

But what else is new?

[kilbia.livejournal.com]

I find no joy in this occasion because I do not believe the Powers That Be will actually declare that "it's over" and we can bring troops home now.

[dan-ad-nauseam.livejournal.com]

Although this is a significant development, I don't think it's quite over. Among other things, we have an obligation to help clean up the messes we created in Afghanistan and Iraq. Which requires diplomacy, not force.

[ladysmith.livejournal.com]

Wait, what was this about the body being handled according to Islamic tradition? The news on the radio down here in Orlando said that they took DNA samples and dumped the body into the sea! (WMFE, at about 6AM or so.)

And.. I don't know. I really don't know. Part of me thinks that they didn't need to kill him. Catching him and... oh, I don't know... encasing him in cement like Jack Harkness... that would have been good. (Okay, overkill I know. See next line...)

And the rest of me is native New Yorker, who still has trouble recognizing the skyline of the city where I was born because the Towers are missing.

[darthparadox.livejournal.com]

As I understand it, burial at sea is permitted if burial underground isn't possible; it appears to be more important that the body be buried within 24 hours.

I imagine "dumped into the sea" was the wording from the sorts of people who would have preferred to see his body tied to a chariot and dragged around the city walls.

[misterseth.livejournal.com]

Well, he's dead. Ironically a day after the greatest mass murderer blew his brains out in a Berlin bunker back in 1945.

Now lets get on with our lives.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

This.

[qnofhrt.livejournal.com]

I have to say I'm baffled at the reaction to this. I expected some celebration but was quite taken aback by "special coverage" this morning on NPR???!!! Seriously?

I hope it brings closure to people who lost family or friends on 9/11. But what about those who have lost people in the misadventures Bush got us into on the pretext of the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan and other places around the world?

I'm not happy, I'm sad and I'm still mad about a lot of things that have been done over the past 10 years in guise of "making us safe".

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Here's a thought: As Athenae pointed out on First Draft (http://www.first-draft.com/2011/05/and-then.html), the reaction is grieving. People grieve how they grieve; you can't say it's good or bad or right or wrong, it just is. For a lot of people, this has been a sharper or duller but still constant pain for almost ten years, and now part of the pain -- not all of it, never all of it -- has suddenly stopped.

Besides all that, yeah. It doesn't bring back any of the dead, or heal any of the wounded. Our rights have still been compromised by our own government, and that government and the punditry do their best to keep us in a state of docile nervousness ready to be sparked into obedient, sheep-like fear at any time. We've a long, long way to go.

[birder2.livejournal.com]

I just hope that we have not simply cut the head off a hydra.

[ladycheron.livejournal.com]

My local paper ran two stories side by side - and the line between the two was not very visible. So I saw "Shooting at [Local] Mall: Two wounded. Osama Ben Laden is Dead." And I was wondering how he got to central Illinois. Then I did a second take, and saw two stories.

So one man is dead...it doesn't bring back all those who died going after him. Doesn't bring back my right to get on an airplane without being searched.

Lets get on with our lives and let his name be forgotten.

[purpleranger.livejournal.com]

Would you be upset if I mentioned the 72 Virginians joke?