HARRY POTTER AND THE DEATHLY HALLOWS PART 2 Spoiler Thread

[filkertom]

We're going to see the 9:45 IMAX 3D show this morning. And then it will be done.

Among the theses:

• overall success as a story
• success as an adaptation
• differences between book and movie and are those differences an improvement
• do they do anything to make Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione seem plausible let alone reasonable
• how much of the exposition in The Final Battle do they keep
• do you buy the film version of the Epilogue
• Do Fred, Colin, Remus and Tonks get onscreen decent deaths or the offscreen bullshit deaths of the book
• whatever else you can think of.

Expecto Patronum!

ETA: Okay then:

• Success as a story -- I thought it did a pretty good job of making as much sense as possible out of that confusing mess of a book. I especially enjoyed the raid on Gringotts, which in the book came across as... well, stupid and badly written. There was a definite sense of progress as they worked their way through the horcruxes, heading toward their final goal of Voldemort himself.
• Success as an adaptation -- It made way more sense than the book in a number of places by, bluntly, tossing some shit and rewriting. Most of the final battle, and especially most of the final confrontation between Harry and Voldie, simply was not in the book, and I applaud Steven Kloves for making the damn thing feel as if it actually meant something.
• Offscreen deaths -- yeah, but, thanks to the scene where the Great Hall is basically a triage/morgue, they at least hit home somewhat. Somewhat.
• Epilogue -- I'm still not buying it. The aging isn't done very well, the clothes look off, just a lot of I call No Way. But the exchange between Harry and his son Albus is beautiful, and in a lot of ways the underline on the whole epic.

What did I think overall? Same thing I thought about the last two movies: Best possible film versions of two books I do not like. There are problems which they simply could not overcome without removing them, and given how central they are to the story -- suddenly competent and thoughtful Ron, not-very-smart-and-follows-a-lot Hermione, the whole stupid Parseltongue-mimicry, Molly Weasley taking out Bellatrix, etc., etc., etc. -- they couldn't be removed. Sigh.

That said, this is a pretty darn watchable movie, and there are some great moments, most of them in the acting. In no particular order:

• Ralph Fiennes is really good, as usual, but it's truly Dan Radcliffe who hoists this movie on his shoulders and damn near dances with it. Dude's already got a substantial career, and nowhere to go but up.
• Warwick Davis gets to act, not merely wear prosthetics, and he kicks ass, especially as Griphook.
• Maggie Smith gets a few meaty bits as McGonagall, not merely standing by fretting, and... well, she's Maggie Smith.
• Helena Bonham Carter as Bella who's really polyjuiced Hermione is wonderful.
• Alan Rickman has all the big dramatic stuff, and it's told as well as it can be told, and he's... well, he's Alan Rickman. Thankfully, he's also onscreen enough that, maybe, he'll get an Oscar nom out of it. I'd certainly be happy with that.
• Evanna Lynch as Luna and Matthew Lewis as Neville are great as usual. Luna/Neville are not a pairing in the Epilogue, but the movie makes a superb case for it, with great economy and a couple of well-placed looks. More on pairings below.
• Many little touches, such as the twins, and Remus with Tonks or with Kingsley Shacklebolt. Nice character work all around. Basically, not a bad performance allowed near the movie, and that's imperative for a movie like this.
• As mentioned, the dragon run in Gringotts was breathtaking. The warding of Hogwarts is also very cool, and while the special effects are fine it's mostly because they get across the emotions of the students and faculty. They're defending their home.
• The final confrontation between Harry and Tom Riddle was excellent, way the hell better than the talky gradoo in the book.
• Kelly MacDonald as the Grey Lady, the ghost of Helena Ravenclaw, was sublime.
• The Malfoys basically sneaking out the back door was hilarious.
• Other stuff I'm sure I'll remember later.

And some of the problems?

• As mentioned above, I really have problems buying the Super Weasley Family. Ginny yells a lot and kisses Harry once or twice. Molly, with no prior history of doing anything besides cooking and fretting over Harry more than over her own children, takes out Voldemort's chosen killer -- and with a spell that I believe was named Pixarrus Maximus. Ron comes up with all the ideas, which Hermione declares "brilliant".
• The mimicking Parseltongue cannot work. It's a magical language. They even gave Ron the breathy snake undertones. IT CAN'T WORK DAMMIT.
• Somebody should inform Draco and Blaise (ironic name, that) that climbing away from fire doesn't work because fire burns, well, up.
• The attack on Hogwarts itself. Funny, you don't think about how insane it is to attack the school, especially with basically some Gothically-dressed extras from The Braveheart Lord of the 300, when you're reading the books. But seeing it up on the screen... man, did it look pointless. And it truly reveals the big weakness of the story: Why does Voldemort want to conquer the Wizarding World, or the whole world, or even Hogwarts? If he wants to live forever, he could probably find ways to do that that didn't involve... hell, most of the shit he did through seven books.
• Honestly, as well, most of his Death Eaters were pretty much "M-m-me, sir?" background noise. Except for the ones we knew, Bella and the Malfoys, they were faceless and pointless, meat to be thrown to the dogs of war, which makes for epic battles but not necessarily a good movie.
• There was almost as much running up and down ruined staircases in Part Two as there was camping in Part One.
• As you know, I ship Harry/Hermione. I can see Harry/Luna, quite easily in fact, especially from the movies. Even though she was gruel in this one, by the time it was done I could almost see Harry/Ginny.
  
  I cannot, cannot see Ron/Hermione.
  
  Although maybe, just maybe, I can see a few select portions of the Ron they fluffed up in this movie with the Hermione they watered down in the last three.
  
  I think I mentioned this last time: In Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio as Maid Marian is a fiery warrior goddess for the first four-fifths of the movie, but then turns into a cringing, shrieking "SAVE ME ROBIN" cupcake for the last part. They did this so that Alan Rickman (dude gets around, wot?) and Kevin Costner could have a big duel, which Rickman wins by maintaining his accent. No, wait. Costner wins because he is "a shimmering star in the cinema firmament" -- it says so, right there. And I hated what they did to Marian. Hated, hated, hated.
  
  Same thing here. Hermione Granger is one of the best characters in fantasy literature ever -- smart, powerful, passionate, caring, ambitious, brave. Can you really imagine her happy with Hey-Hermione-you're-a-girl-pass-the-butterbeer-Quidditch-in-on-the-Wizarding-Wireless Weasley?
  
  Again, maybe this Hermione you can. Sorry, though -- Emma Watson and Rupert Grint simply have no chemistry to my eye. And they had to delete some of Ron's more annoying and offensive bits from the last book to even make him this likable. And even then the bits featuring Hermione with Harry show how much more chemistry they have. I do not think it's a coincidence that the very last shot of the film, focusing on the trio but mostly Harry, leaves Ron blurred in the background while Ginny slips off the screen entirely.
  
  Snarl. Rant off.

Anyway. I thought it was a very fun movie to watch, the end of a great ride, and if you like the books or movies at all I recommend it heartily. Although you might want to take a pass on the IMAX. The movie's fine, but the volume for the previews was literally painful.

For all the bad parts, I has my fanfic.

Thoughts?

Comments

[tealbeen.livejournal.com]

Hey, Fred got a great "onscreen" death in the book. But all three of them get the offscreen deaths in the film.

They got quite a few things absolutely perfect, though - the Pensieve scene, Harry's walk into the Forbidden Forest, the Epilogue (which I loved in the book, too).

Liked the movie a lot. Have to go back a couple times to see how I really feel about it.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Nah. Fred's was more of an oops-yer-dead, much as Hedwig's was in the book. Given Hedwig's heroic death in DH Part One, I was hoping for better for the three of them. Sigh.

[tealbeen.livejournal.com]

After a second viewing (yeah, I'm a re-re-re-repeater with films):

I was finding the words from the book singing in my head as I watched the film. The best adaptations do that, as there is always so much more in a book than you can cram into a film, even the best film. But knowing the book (and I LOVED Deathly Hallows - my favorite book of the series), this one, more even than the others, brought all the stuff that wasn't on the screen to me.

It was the same with Lord of the Rings - passages from the book would sing to me as I watched, deepening the already-excellent films with all the rest that wasn't on the screen.

[eoywin.livejournal.com]

I loved the epilogue in the book, but I hated it in the movie. The kids don't look aged at all in the movie, especially Ginny who looks like a little girl playing dress up.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the only one who even looked close to the right age was Harry, and that was mostly mannerisms. And the sideburns.

[susan-the-rogue.livejournal.com]

Completely OT, but Asheville Browncoat alert! ^_________^

[eoywin.livejournal.com]

Shiny! I added you to my friends list :D

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

The Pensieve scene was done much better than the books. But overall I found the movie framed poorly. and the way Ron/Hermione was presented would be a short term adrenaline fling, not something that'd last 19 years later.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Roger on that one. I thought the framing of the movie was okay, for a film that was indeed mostly centered. Someone should've remined David Yates he had IMAX to play with. On the other hand, I really do think he hit it out of the park on the dragon escape.

[lariss.livejournal.com]

MAde me feel so sad for the poor, fire breathing, death dealing dragon. MAN was I on its team.

And Snape. Alan Rickman gave3 that character so much more pathos than the book did. But I like some things from the book better anyway.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

The movies have affected Hollywood. For the first time we have a series of movies with continuity between them and the same actors playing the same roles. No one has done that before and the success has given us things like Marvel Studios doing movie continuity between Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, and soon Cap America. I wonder what the future will bring.

[insane-ian.livejournal.com]

No one has done that before? I'm sorry, have you heard of Star Trek?

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Point taken. I forgot to include the point that we get to see the same actors grow up and see how the movies changed as they aged and how the movies were releases on a regular, predictable basis. Star Trek can't say that. The characters were already adults and the movies came out ... whenever.

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

That the Star Trek characters were already adults is true. The movies actually did come out on a regular schedule though... once The Wrath of Khan had established the series as viable, something The Motionless Picture had failed to do. (The extra year between movie 4 and movie 5 was largely due to strikes and the fallout therefrom.)

What I see as the Harry Potter series' major development is that there is an overarching plot arc lasting across so many movies, that they managed to keep pretty consistent despite flaws in the original material (I'm looking at you, Volumes 5 and 6). Getting to see the same actors grow up and change along with the movies is a MAJOR plus in getting the overall story across.

[ninkasa.livejournal.com]

I think they actually did a better job with Harry/Ginny (which I hate) in the movie than they did Ron/Hermione.

They gave Neville some truly bad-ass moments and even gave Neville/Luna a nod, which thrilled me. :)

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was kind of shocked in the epilogue in the book when they did NOT wind up together. Haven't seen the movie yet, and probably won't for several weeks.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yepper on all counts. I bet there's going to be a severe rise in Neville/Luna fic, which is fine by me.

[dement1a.livejournal.com]

I was thinking that "F**k Yeah Neville" was a site that needed to exist. And of course, it already does. But the best thing I found out of that little jaunt on the web was this:

http://vitaminkate.tumblr.com/post/2611065896/waaaant

[smoooom.livejournal.com]

Saw it last night, was surprised that I really enjoyed it. Since the movies and the books are two different things anyway I never expected them to stick to the book.

I've never has issues with Harry/Ginny or Hermione/Ron, it's always seemed quite right to me. I loved the idea of Neville and Luna.

The "19 years later" was even lamer than in the book. The aging was lousy, and nothing was explained, we got glimpses of everyone but that was it.

I loved McGonnigall's line "I've alwasy wanted to do that spell" The "army" wasn't in the book, but in context it made sense to me. Snape was as always awesome, I cried.

It may well be my favourite movie of the series. Certainly it's the best since number three.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I think that's my assessment as well. Although there was some great stuff in Number Five, especially Gary Oldman.

Face it, JKR: Your Epilogue is lame. At least something good came out of the movie version.

Yeah, McGonagall was great. :D

[vulpine137.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with you on Mcgonnigall's line. That was probably one of the top 5 lines in the movie series.

[zenturbo.livejournal.com]

I politely disagree with your take on the Weasley family. My take is that JKR is making is not to underestimate people with them. With the exception of Fred and George (who created the joke shop in place), all the boys were Prefects and some even made Best Boy. They would not of been picked if they didn't have the talent and/or leadership role.

As for Molly, even Dumbledore said it was unwise to underestimate her abilities. She is mostly portrayed as a frumpy homemaker who frets and wrings her hands, but also remember that she had seven kids and could keep them all in line. Also keep in mind all that happened-one son killed and almost losing another kid and her husband. Nearly losing her daughter could of put her in beserker mode and made her mop the floor with Bella.

Just my two cents.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

Pretty much this. Me, I always figured that Molly was more of a badass than we ever knew back in the old days, but she put all that away to run that huge family (you don't think Mr Weasley actually makes any decisions do you?). She dusted off the badass and shook it out one more time.

[ravenclaw-eric.livejournal.com]

Anybody with sense knows that a mother protecting her children...of any species...is deadly dangerous. And Molly has been stated as coming from a family of Aurors.

[lariss.livejournal.com]

This.
Also, Mrs. Malfoy with the mother-role. Very nice.

[barbara-the-w.livejournal.com]

As you know, I've seen Ron/Hermione since book one. It's much more clear in the books, than Kloves' "Hermione-is-the-Real-Hero-of-This-Series-She's-Cooler-Than-Harry-Dear-God-Can-We-Stop" attitude (see the mauling of book 3, aka Prisoner of Azkaban). To go along with this is Kloves' virulent Dumbing-Down-of-Ron.

I never understood why people paired Hermione with Harry. He scares her. She doesn't know how to cope with him. Her primary emotional reactions
a) bore him
b) annoy him
c) make him clam up even more.

They were never emotionally compatible. I don't get why people want to pair Hermione with Harry. That's like putting Mary Bennet with Mr. Darcy.

[ravenclaw-eric.livejournal.com]

Myself, I was never wild about the Trio dating or marrying among themselves. I always thought it would have been better if Herself had decided that what they already had was so special that romance would ruin, or at best, irrevocably change it...kind of like Modesty Blaise and Willie Garvin, two of my favorite characters.

I could see Harry ending up with Ginny, if only because they've both had an experience...possession by Voldemort...that nobody else in the books has had to my best memory. If Hermione had to date or marry a Weasley, wouldn't it have been a hoot if she'd ended up with Percy and been very happy with him, and him with her? She and Harry just don't *click*, and that's pretty much how it is. He loves her, but more like the sister he never had.

As for Ron...the Ron we got in the later books was not the Ron we could have predicted as of Book 1. In Book 1, it was established that he was an excellent chess-player, and implied that he was a pretty sound strategist. I think that was what JKR originally intended, but didn't follow through with, downgrading Ron to be Harry's sidekick. Of course, he doesn't come across as bright as Hermione...but who does?

[purpleranger.livejournal.com]

I think Voldy's problem is that he never read the Evil Overlord list, because if I'm not too terribly mistaken, most of the things he does throughout the series is on that list.

I just want to know one thing. Does Molly say THE Line to Bella during the final battle?

[zenturbo.livejournal.com]

I believe she does.

[roman-mclaze.livejournal.com]

I caught a matinee on Friday, which is definitely the right way to do things if you're not doing the "midnight premier" thing. The theater was nearly full, but everybody (including the staff) was more relaxed, and I think that made a difference. Plus, it was slightly cheaper.

The presence of the "Platform 9¾" sign at the end was kind of sweet. After all the darkness, and death, and heaviness of the last few movies, it was cool that they ended it with one of the first bits of whimsy from the first story...back when everything was still a grand and magical fairy tale adventure. That, more than the cast aging make-up and "Albus Severus Potter" is what gave the ending such a great vibe for me. To these young kids on their way to Hogwarts, there is no darkness, no Voldemort...there is only the exciting and frightening mystery of growing up.

Other miscellaneous observations:

- *Harry drops Ressurection Stone*:
"Roll 1d8...maximum damage!"

- *LeStrange dances around Voldemort during the battle*:
"What, Mr. Todd? What, Mr. Todd?"

- *Dumbledore shows up in Harry's visit to the train station*
"A greybearded wizard dies heroically, trades in his dark-colored robes for something lighter, then keeps on being marginally useful to the protagonist?" What a great concept!

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

"What, Mr. Todd? What, Mr. Todd?"

HBC does a better job at being Mrs. Lovett when playing Bellatrix LeStrange than she did when playing Mrs. Lovett. JMHO.

The presence of the "Platform 9¾" sign at the end was kind of sweet.

Absolutely. And yet, for me, the movie doesn't do the final scene *enough* justice. Where's the chaos? I've seen enough move-in days to realize that the book's is a more accurate depiction. The tone of the movie's epilogue was too... somber, really. Kids running around, all the returning students greeting each other and jostling for seats, the first-years being excited but scared, the little siblings wreaking havoc as best they can, and the parents bouncing between loving exasperation ("They're so adorable and I love them so but why oh why did I ever sign up for *this*?"), gratitude that school is starting (especially that the upper-school kids are *out of their hair until the hols!*), and camaraderie with the *other* parents, who after all are their old school chums, and I have to imagine there's some feeling still there, plus I'm sure many of them interact quite a bit outside of Platform 9+3/4. I got a feel for that from the book's epilogue, but *none* of that from the movie's, and it could have made the film even better. (Again, MHO, YMMV.)

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

Hey, Harry won!