Are You Ready For Some CONTROVERSY???

[filkertom]

Very serious question here, and I'd like you to help me think about all the possible ramifications.

I go to lots of cons. It's fun. It's my family. You know all that.

But it's also my job -- my best source of income. And, as much as I've cranked out albums the past few years (and I'm trying to get back to that, I have plans heh heh heh oh I have plans), lots of my regular fans have everything, or most of everything. Which is why I've been trying to break into new markets.

At GenCon, I did some busking, i.e., wandering around performing. I was permitted, nay encouraged, to set up a tip jar.

I think of Dean Hagland charging a separate admission for his improv shows; I think of celebs charging for pictures and autographs (something I will never, EVER do).

So.

If I passed a hat at my convention concerts, along with a little speech about This Is How I Make My Living (think of ren faires), would that be rude, unseemly, just plain wrong, etc., or long past due, or something else I'm not seeing?

ETA: 'Sfunny. I said "If I passed a hat" kinda as a throwaway, but it's turned into a valuable and clarifying part of the conversation. And I agree with you all: passing the hat is Right out. But I'm inclined towards a tip jar (Tim said this morning he doesn't see a problem with it, on the merch table just outside the door of the performance area), and several other ideas you've had are very good, and a few have spurred me towards more ideas. Thanks so much, and keep 'em comin'.

Comments

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

I think it would be fine, and I think a con that prevented you from doing it would be out of line unless it was because of local law. A lot of people would be willing to help support you but either can't afford to buy a CD, but could throw a dollar or their spare change into a tip jar, or already have all your albums, have bought for friends and family, and just can't figure out a logical reason to buy another....

[mouser.livejournal.com]

I don't go to cons, but...

What the hell do you mean you HAVEN'T been passing the hat?!?!?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

It makes me squeamish. Particularly at the cons that have paid my way. It's something that I've only considered since I started doing house concerts, and even then I still feel as if I'm doing something Not Exactly Right.

Heh. In a lot of ways, my "business model" is Hope Springs Eternal.

[smparadox.livejournal.com]

I vote for choice "d.", long past due.

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

Huh. Never really considered that before.

I'm long-time comfortable with a tip jar for someone busking or for a performer at a bar, but I never thought about it for a concert. I'm not at all sure how I feel about it.

If you don't mind my asking, the cons where you have concert slots, are you a paying member of the convention and paying your own expenses, or are you either (or both) reimbursed for expenses or comped for membership?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

My membership is usually comp'd, except for OVFF. That's not the problem; it's travel and hotel and, to an extent, food. For instance, GenCon paid my way, gave me a table, and sent me out to earn tips. (Doing lyric-intensive comedy folk-rock in the middle of several competing war zones was probably not the best way to do this.) This weekend I'm at FenCon, and they got me a break on the hotel room but otherwise I'm here on my own dime and it's a fair amount of dimes.

[saganth.livejournal.com]

Agreed with the above, you ought to be doing this! Hell, a few donations your way is the LEAST con-goers can do!

[markbernstein.livejournal.com]

I like the basic idea, but . . .

Some people may feel pressured and resentful if they actually have a hat put in front of them. How about if you set up a tip jar by the door, and mention that during the concert?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Very good idea.

[wcg.livejournal.com]

My first inclination is to say, "sure, that'd be fine!" but then I wonder if there might be a subtle difference between a concert on a con program and things that happen in a slightly less formal setting. I'd suggest running the idea past the ComCon of any con you're intending to try this at.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I need to talk to Russ and Tim this morning.

[pooh27bear.livejournal.com]

I being one of those that have almost all of your stuff, I'd be more than happy to put in a "hat" for you at a Con I would attend that you were at. There is no reason I see you shouldn't do this.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Hm.

I guess it would depend on the con. At Dragon*Con or PenguiCon, for example, I don't think it would be unusual. Any con where you staff a table, where you are clearly selling something, not o mention giving free concerts, it would make sense to say "if you want me to keep going, besides buying my stuff, you can just help me out!"

At OVFF or NEFilk, I think it would be a bit off-putting, because that feels less...well, I mean, there are the filk dealers, but the sense tends to be that one isn't really selling in the same way, if that makes sense.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

And that's another consideration, and an extremely good one. I don't know how I feel about doing it at cons to begin with; I'd likely feel worse about doing it at cons where I'm GOH. At OVFF or GAFilk or FKO or another filk-family con... no chance.

[eruvanna.livejournal.com]

I think it woul dbe exactly in the spirit of the renn Faires. Basically saying "Look, I depend on sales and tips to get most of my cabbage. So I'm gonna pass a hat and I thank you for any contribution" type thing.

[poltr1]

I'm with wcg. Ask the concom if it's OK to do at their con before putting out the tip jar (or open guitar case). If it's OK with them, it's OK with me.

[hughcasey.livejournal.com]

My take?

In an informal setting, such as busking in a hallway or at a room party, yes, absolutely, as long as it causes no problems vis a vis local laws, or the convention's policy. I know Patricia Wake at Wicked Faire did this, and I think she did OK.

At a concert? No, I don't think it's appropriate there. But it certainly IS okay to mention that you'll be performing around the con, and that donations are not necessary by always appreciated.

That reminds me... any interest in doing Wicked Faire or the Steampunk World's Fair next year? I have an in with the organizers. ;-)

[sdelmonte]

I think I would want to know how other people with concerts feel.

Personally, I don't see any difference between this and selling CDs. It just needs to be kept fairly low pressure.

[markbernstein.livejournal.com]

As someone who's done a bunch of concerts, I would say that there's a big difference between me and someone who relies on music for their entire income. I respect and admire those who do, and encourage anything that makes it possible.

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

I think passing a hat pushes people to feel like they have to give even if they can't/don't want to. But leaving a guitar case open (and prepped with some money) is completely acceptable, in my mind. I'd mention it only as a soft sell, though. I wouldn't emphasize it.

Concerts and cons really should be a way for you to win over new fans, who would then in theory buy everything you've got.

As another idea: why not put something on your website where people can buy a new song?

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

I meant, buy a NEW new song, as in, subsidize your efforts for the next album. Obv also you should continue to sell the existing songs.

[liddle-oldman.livejournal.com]

I would support this, and I would toss something into the hat.

Perhaps you can think of it as busking in a slightly different format -- most people have to do it in subway stations; you get a venue where your audience gets to sit comfortably. But, it's still voluntary to contribute; you're not charging, you're offering an opportunity. And it *is* how you make your living.

I don't feel that it's particularly controversial at all. For what that's worth.

[ericcoleman]

I see no problems with it.

[shrewreader.livejournal.com]

How about a half & half deal on concerts, since you're squeamish? You either designate a charity, or ask the concom to, and split any tips you get there with said charity?

I think a tip jar is entirely appropriate while busking or wandering: and, like the others, think it's long past time you did!

[shsilver.livejournal.com]

I'm not saying yea and I'm not saying nay, just bringing up some considerations.

As a frequent con com member, my only concern is that most of the cons I work on are all inclusive.* We don't expect members to feel they have to pay for any of the scheduled events, whether films, panels, art show, or concerts, beyond the membership rate they've already paid.

That said, I wouldn't rule passing the hat out entirely, although I would highly recommend checking with the convention chair at least a week before the convention starts. The time before the convention is because it might be at the chair's discretion to give you the go ahead, but it is also possible that the con's governing body will want to discuss the prospect as a policy decision.

And of course, once one person starts passing the hat at a con, it is likely that others will follow suit. Will cons that set a policy against it find themselves labelled filk-unfriendly and see a decrease in the number of filkers who show up?

*Often writers workshops include an additional fee to cover the cost of copying/printing, mailing.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

A tip jar with a sign saying "Feed the Filker or he'll play It's a Small World!" is a good idea. I would certainly not be offended by that. But events with seperate covers in Conventions... those I never go to. If it's so professional that it requires additional payment, then it's too professional for a fannish convention imho.

But certainly have a tip jar or open guitar case.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Der Signage:

Sing a song: Free
Sing a particular song: 1$
Sing a particular song in a particular style: 3$
Sing a song of six pence: Six pence
Sing an improvised song about you: 20$
Sing an improvised song about your girlfriend: 20i$ (imaginary number for imaginary girlfriends)
Sing an improvised song about your job: 100$
Immortalize you on my next CD: 250$ (includes free copy of CD)
Immortalize you on my next CD in a way you want to be immortalized: 300$ (still includes free copy of CD)
Free copy of my CDs: Free! (offer void outside the state of inebriation)

[spiritdancer]

I like this :)

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

As a fan, I have no problem with a tip jar (and a mention of it once or even twice in a concert), nor with an open case or jar any time you're busking.

Things that need consideration:

1. Filk con vs. non-filkcon
2. Percentage of your expenses being paid by the con
3. Whether you're on the rota of actual promoted guests of the con, or just have a concert spot (i.e., it's more offputting to have a GoH with a tip jar than otherwise)

In general, any situation where you sell CDs should be an okay venue for a tip jar. And, as other folks are saying, do check with the concom to prevent an entry on your tip jar in Fandom Wank :-)

[catalana.livejournal.com]

I like the tip jar idea better than passing the hat, as Mark said above; it's also probably just easier to deal with given that people come and go in concerts.

I suspect you will feel differently about it at different cons, so you might not do it at absolutely every con (like the ones that are family-like vs. the big general cons.) But I don't see a reason why, in principle, it's a bad thing.

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

I agree with those who have no problem with it as long as the ConCom has no problem with it.

[jilesa.livejournal.com]

I'm very comfortable with the notion of musicians setting up a tip jar and encouraging contributions in pretty much any venue. The exception to that being a ticketed concert where I know the musician is being paid from ticket sales. At a con, where there are no separate ticket sales for a concert, I'd expect to see a tip jar, honestly.

Passing a hat is a different sort of vibe for me, though, and I might be a little less comfortable with that at a concert than I would be with a tip jar.

[ldyerzsie.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't mind at a con where there were tickets and the musician WASN'T being paid from the ticket sales.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

I know Duckon has a Filker Fund, but I'm not sure how it's used. I don't know if it's to bring filkers to the con or to help pay them. You performed at my first Duckon and I had a great time. I remember buying CDs and participating in an auction. Actually it wasn't an auction since they had a "buy it now" option. I got the sci-fi cookbook "Adventures in Thyme and Spice" which I still use.

Anyway, I haven't seen any other filkers pass the hat around at the conventions I've went to so I don't know how I'd feel about it. I paid the entrance fee so I guess I may feel like I had to pay twice. The only other "pay event" I know of are the blinkies and that's because of the materials used. I don't mean to discourage you, but I would think a passive form like a tip jar is acceptable.

Making new albums to sell helps too.

[wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com]

Duckon's filk fund is used to fund Filk Guests of Honor. I suspect that the con provides their membership, but for stuff like paying for an airplane ticket to bring Talis Kimberly across the pond, that money comes from the filk fund.