"The Depravity Of The Poor"

[filkertom]

Holy fucking fuck:

It is simply a fact that our social problems are increasingly connected to the depravity of the poor. If an American works hard, completes their education, gets married, and stays married, then they will rarely — very rarely — be poor. At the same time, poverty is the handmaiden of illegitimacy, divorce, ignorance, and addiction. As we have poured money into welfare, we’ve done nothing to address the behaviors that lead to poverty while doing all we can to make that poverty more comfortable and sustainable.

Earlier this week, Walter Russell Mead highlighted disturbing research showing that the poor — far more than the rich — are disconnected from church and religion. While church attendance is dropping among all social classes, it’s falling off a cliff for the poorest and least-educated Americans. In other words, the deeper a person slides into poverty, the more they’re disconnected from the very values that can save them and their families.

The bottom line is that we need more free enterprise, and we need more virtue. Sadly, the Great Society and the sexual revolution have deprived us of both.

Whole lotta WUT I DON'T EVEN goin' on.

Comments

[salexa]

So because I choose to remain unmarried I must be depraved? (I can be, but that is not the reason).

This is so wrong on so many levels my brain hurts to even think about it.

[thornsilver]

Yeah, comments fail on that one.

[zellion.livejournal.com]

a few of the comments on the linked post there are great already. The "we stop wanting to pray to an asshole who ignores our increasingly desperate prayers" and the quote about Sodom were my favorites.

[thistlethorn.livejournal.com]

I have three words for these people:

The French Revolution

[roane.livejournal.com]

Ironically, that's the name of the author of the original piece's blog.

[peteralway.livejournal.com]

OK, I followed the link, and it comes up scrambled on my browser. Who exactly are you quoting here?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

The link goes to Balloon Juice, which links Poison Your Mind, which links to the original article by David French in National Review.

[lariss.livejournal.com]

This is so twisted it no longer even resembles logic. It's like...logic origami. Look! It was logic, but NOW it's a CRANE!!!

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

It's a magic trick! With enough knots and twist and turns, anything can become a steaming pile of horseshit!

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

Oh, so THAT must have been the problem. I mean, I was poor, educated, and working my ass off at 3 jobs at once, but I was supposed to get married. That would have sorted the whole 'no food thing' out, I guess.

[codevixen.livejournal.com]

Well, sure it would, assuming the guy you got married to was a nice man who could take care of all your problems and give you lots of babies!

[jannyblue.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't disagree with the "works hard" part... Nobody ever told me things were always going to be easy, and I've done okay at least in part because I don't expect it to be.

Success is largely a matter of luck, timing and maintaining realistic expectations, which is really difficult in an idealistic, "should-be" culture like ours. And it doesn't always work, even if you do everything right.

(Sadly, I learned that last bit from personal experience.)

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Seems to me, the poor work twice as hard, at least. They can't afford to pay other people to do anything that needs doing, and they don't have labor-saving machinery at home, either.

[kengr]

It is simply a fact that our social problems are increasingly connected to the depravity of the poor. If an American works hard, completes their education, gets married, and stays married, then they will rarely — very rarely — be poor.

Utter bullshit. Working hard hasn't had a connection to keeping a job for a *long* time. Hell, with 10% unemployment, having a job (unless you have a *very* in demand skill set) is purely a matter of *luck*.

Same goes for education.

The main reason for the number of single *women* who are on welfare is because many states didn't *allow* a family with an able-bodied man to go on welfare (at least that's the way it used to be). So to save the family, the husband would have to leave.

It's projection, pure and simple.

They *need* being poor to be the *fault* of the poor. Something due to some shortcoming of their. Not merely misfortune that could happen to anyone.

That way they can stifle any inclination to empathy. And try to tell themselves that "as you do it unto the least of these" doesn't apply.

[realinterrobang.livejournal.com]

This. Somewhere in my huge number of quotes posts, I have a quote from someone that runs like "Never treat anything as a fait accompli that depends on another person." Your getting a job (or keeping a job), no matter how hard wingnuts, society, and your parents want to pretend, ultimately is up to other people; if the hiring manager for the position for which you just did a kick-ass, swing-for-the-fences interview decides sie doesn't like your face, you're still not getting hired that day, no matter how hard you worked.

Also, are these dipshits actually aware of how much it costs to get married, even if you assume a bare-bones non-ceremony ceremony with a JP at the local courthouse? (Which, yes, skips the religion part that French seems so insistent upon, but it also skips the expense of renting the church along with the officiant.) Grrr...

[fair-witness.livejournal.com]

Another round of magical thinking, I see. If you do everything right, you will be successful; therefore, if you aren't successful, you must not have done everything right.

Grrrr.

[alryssa.livejournal.com]

In short, ~BOOTSTRAPS~.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

Part of the reason that people have fallen away from the church is that the church hasn't done its job well. When you have scandals like the Catholic Church pedophile thing, national pastors falling from grace and other such problems then it stands to reason that people are going to lose faith in the church. I'll give credit where credit is due to the men and women who go out into the world to preach the gospel and help the poor in other nations (things like building homes, digging wells, helping feed the poor, etc); but there needs to be an adressing of the very real public transgressions that have occured.

I can't help but think of the recent study that came out of Florida that studied drug use amongst Floridians. It turns out that 2% of those on public assistance did drugs and 8% of total Floridians used drugs. I wonder how the writer of the above article would spin that little bit of news.

It is not a lack of Free Enterprise that is the problem. It is that the Republicans have created an atmosphere where tax breaks are going to coporations who send jobs overseas. That needs to be reversed to where corporations are given tax incentives to, not only keep jobs here, but to make sure that there are new jobs created here as well.

It is also interesting to note that the writer never mentions that there is a particular part in the Bible where a rich man comes to Jesus and asks him what more he needed to do to get into heaven. Jesus told him to go and sell all he owned and give it to the poor. The rich man left depressed and Jesus commented that it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.

What about that?

[ashkitty.livejournal.com]

They don't like that part; I think they have a version where Jesus says if the rich man doesn't want to give up all he has, he can go kick some gay people instead.

[juglore.livejournal.com]

Someone might point out that welfare ended in 1996. Aint been nobody on welfare since then. And TANF aint the same thing at all.

[rowangolightly.livejournal.com]

I'm just simply boggled. Here I am with a college degree, recently divorced and Pagan and have never taken a dime of government money.

A marriage is only as good and honorable and long-lasting as BOTH parties are committed. I was, he wasn't. But I'm paying the price for his lack of honor. And....oh, never mind. I'm preaching to the choir here anyway.

So it's my fault that I'm poor, right? I just can't begin to comment on this without getting into expletives.

[zellion.livejournal.com]

Yeah that's pretty much it. Simply do not know enough vulgar language to accurately express my opinion.

[atalantapendrag.livejournal.com]

...wow.

Yeah, anyone know where I can get a Phrygian cap and a tricolor badge? It's getting closer and closer to time for heads in the gutter instead of disabled veterans.

[lariss.livejournal.com]

Cake, anyone?

[aulayan.livejournal.com]

I would just like to point out a little something that no one else (I think) pointed out yet. Other than the fact that the entirety of this argument is complete bullshit, there is a very good reason why the poor don't go to church.

The poor tend to have to work when Church is in session. I know *I* can't go to the church of my choice, because I'm always working then. We don't get to do the Monday-Friday 9-5 job that gives us free time to go do this shit. And if you have more than one job, it's even more ridiculously difficult.

Of course, that's me using logic to dismantle one aspect of his argument. The rest of it everyone else has called the proper bullshit on already.

Seriously. WTF.

[batyatoon]

This is EXACTLY what I said. The poor aren't going to church because the poor have to work on Sunday.

[mtgat]

Charles Dickens had things to say about assholes who thought this way. So did Jesus.

But if you think taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Americans should go up by 3%, *that's* class warfare.

[ldyerzsie.livejournal.com]

Fine. It's about time for the working class to rise up and reclaim our rightful place.

[roane.livejournal.com]

Of course, what I haven't seen here (but was pointed out in comments elsewhere) is that the Mead study only looked at WHITE people. Because, you know, all those poor black and Hispanic churchgoers don't count.

I think about the conservatives who compare our current US society to Rome in the days before it fell, and when I read shit like this, I wonder if they're right. And I wonder if I really think that's such a bad thing.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

When someone tries to compare the USA to ancient Rome, I like pointing out that the Roman Empire was doing great until Christianity took over, then it went down in flames.

At that point they leave me alone and go annoy someone else.

[redneckgaijin.livejournal.com]

Um... this isn't surprising at all.

It's the same argument slaveholders used to claim that their slaves were better off as such- that black people were naturally indolent, unGodly and depraved unless kept under strict discipline.

It's also the same argument used by the Puritans to attack anyone who didn't hew to the same work ethic they followed.

Nothing new here at all.

[catsittingstill.livejournal.com]

This is the Most Disgusting Thing I have ever seen on the internet.

And considering I have been on the 'net since about 1993, that's saying something.

[caligogreywings.livejournal.com]

Really? Because my in-laws have been married for 28 years, they drive school buses, and I'd say that we're pretty poor. We definitely live paycheck to paycheck (my husband and I live with them) and it's a struggle. It has nothing to do with... any of what he said. They're Christian, married, my MIL has an associate's degree, and yeah...

Just, wow. The ignorance there is super ironic.

[batyatoon]

As commenters ahead of me have already pointed out the existence of the virtuous poor, I would like only to add the following:

Because we all KNOW that illegitimacy, divorce, and addiction are virtually unheard of among the extremely wealthy. That's why no gossip magazine has ever been able to sustain itself in print.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Not to mention every soap opera and at least half of the romance novels in existence.

[muddlewait.livejournal.com]

If an American works hard, completes their education, gets married, and stays married, then they will rarely — very rarely — be poor. At the same time, poverty is the handmaiden of illegitimacy, divorce, ignorance, and addiction.

So give kids decent schools so they have a place to work hard and have it actually pay off. If you want them to develop useful skills, let them do internships and projects. As part of their education, give them a few chances to work on real projects that have actual results, stuff they can use their hard work on and point to and be proud of, stuff they can *learn how to do*, that has nothing to do with test-taking.

Let any people who want them have low-paying, but livable, government jobs where they can develop skills and get certifications and experience carrying out challenging projects that can't be driven by personal profit motives. Projects like building and repairing public schools or, you know, FLYING TO THE FREAKING MOON. Or do you wish the commies had beat us to the moon? You do, don't you? You America-hating commie-loving Republicans. You're all alike.

Cough up some real cash for a few experienced hands who demand, and should receive, high salaries to run these projects and mentor the participants. If you hire a contractor company to contribute, make 'em aim those government dollars at new talent, to have their best and brightest train our young and hungry. Young and hungry work cheap, until they get skilled and proud, which is the goal.

Let the "lazy" people, whoever they are, have the jobs associated with said tasks that require and develop no skills, but still have a useful purpose, like hands-out-sandwiches guy. (And let's be honest, who doesn't love him when he comes around?) And he also gets a roof, food, and to have his blood pressure checked. He won't ever make much money if he doesn't want to, but Jesus knocked around handing out fishbread to crowds of people without making a dime from it. We sure wish we hadn't killed *him*, right? Right. So, we'll let sandwich guy live too.

Still some unemployed hanging around? Make the project bigger. Make a new project. How about a national addiction recovery program? (We can even call it a WAR on addiction if that's what it takes. Let's just target the actual addiction part you mention, not the whole person.) Or, maybe a massive education program communicating the statistically proven economic and health benefits of committed, long-term sexual relationships and of delaying (or even foregoing) child-rearing. I hear gay couples, and even their children, come out really well in studies related to the topic.

Wait, what? Not interested?

(These people ARE my family.)

[bridgeweaver.livejournal.com]

One reason I started a small business in the teeth of the economic downturn was the desire to create the possibility of being able to hire other people in need. I have worked my fucking ass off, overcome governmental interference, put out a quality product, given fair value for money, kept my prices where people could afford them, and I'm now closing down at the end of the month because of the depression we're in.

I have worked hard. I am very well educated in my field. I am married and have been for almost six years. I am in a committed relationship with my deities of choice. I have even tried to live the small business, private sector as the engine of the economy ideal.

And it has not worked. Too many people are afraid they won't have the rent or money for groceries, even though i made my prices such that many people could afford them. At a time when the kind of caring, compassionate and knowledgeable touch I provide is so very needed, my business crashed, and due to the lack of meaningful healthcare in this country, I was hit with thousands of dollars of medical bills when my three-year-old got poked in the eye and had to go to the ER. We had no margin. We are temporarily beaten.

So may those who hold the opinions expressed in this article live to see their comfortable lives taken away from them. May they know hunger and poverty and fear, in the knowledge that the society they have made doesn't give a shit about them. May they cry out and be ignored. May their illusions of safety be ripped away from them. May there be no hiding place for them, until they confront the reality that we do this together or we fall alone. So mote it be.

And for those watching at home, yes Virginia, that was a curse from the heart.

[madrona.livejournal.com]

As a Christian with a front row seat to some of this:

Do you think maybe the poor are disconnecting from the churches because the preachers are telling them to tithe their welfare checks so the church can buy a new sound system, support the people who actively seek to oppress them and expect the apocalypse any day now?

Fuck. I still believe and I don't even do church anymore because most of them are off on some crazy trip that has nothing to do with Jesus.

My husband and I? We did everything this excerpt suggests. And you know what? We're poor. Had to ask family to buy a pack of baby wipes poor.

Please tell me this was parody all along.

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

Oh, so I lost my job, house and was sick for years (and still can't lose the weight gained during said illness) because of my depravity. Wow, that really clears it up.

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

At first I thought you were quoting some Victorian pigwig explaining the need for workhouses and debtors' prisons in 1840. Or that this was the intro to "A Modest Proposal for Preventing the Children of Poor People in Ireland From Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country..." from 1729.

Thank god the tighty-righties have all those forward-thinking people in their midst.

I sure hope this David French dude (and shouldn't his name be David FREEDOM if he's a real America-lover, hmm?) follows up with a medical essay on how to use phrenology to weed out prenatal bolshevism, the use of leather beaks full of chopped herbs to keep out the bad humours that cause the plague.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I thought that this was something from the ca. 1840 era, as well, until I got farther into it. But hey, we're going back to that era, if I read the neo-con line rightly.

The word that comes to mind most strongly is Pharisees.