'Cause Old White Male Celibates Know Best
Apr. 23rd, 2004 12:04 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
filkertomI literally just heard this on Air America Radio, and Googled it up at Wired:
Cardinal: No Communion For Pro-Abortion Politicians
Cardinal: No Communion For Pro-Abortion Politicians
In remarks that could influence the U.S. presidential race, a top Vatican cardinal said on Friday that a Catholic politician who unambiguously supports abortion should be denied communion at Mass.Anyone else ever going to invoke the doctrine of Free Will again?
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(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 09:51 am (UTC)*Consequences* of actions aren't covered.
This is *not* out of line, not unless you accept the premise that a religion doesn't have the right to set standards for its followers and penalize them for not following them.
It's a purely *internal* matter, except for any publicity involved.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 09:58 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 10:56 am (UTC)schism?
Date: 2004-04-23 11:15 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 11:15 am (UTC)The *effect* may well be to have him start publicly saying that the Church is out of line.
Re: schism?
Date: 2004-04-23 11:32 am (UTC)Doubtful. Too much of rank-and-file Catholicism already ignores the Vatican in real life.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 02:02 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 02:16 pm (UTC)As I understand it (and someone please correct me if I am wrong), in order to take communion in a Catholic church, the individual is supposed to be shriven - confessed and free of sin. But, in order for that to be the case, you've got to sincerely confess your sins.
If the Church thinks supporting abortion is a sin, and a legislator comes out of the confessional still supporting it, then obviously the politician wasn't sincere, and is thus unshriven, and cannot take communion.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 02:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 02:39 pm (UTC)Re: schism?
Date: 2004-04-23 02:41 pm (UTC)But to be realistic, I really doubt that it will happen. In my opinion, too many Catholics have bought into the belief that they should be meek and submissive, and to follow what the Vatican says, without question. In other words, they've become sheep. Those who dare speak out risk getting shunned or excommunicated. THankfully, that's starting to change, with the sexual abuse scandal.
The Vatican is the oldest of old-boy networks. They won't change what they're doing, or how they're doing it. Their philosophy is "99% loyal is 100% disloyal", and "Protect the hierarchy, the structure, and the establishment at all costs". It's almost cult-like, if you think about it in those terms. There's the charismatic leader (the Pope), and the psychological operations (guilt and manipulation) that they employ.
But I do love the sense of history, and ritual, and some of the music is quite moving for me....even though I left the Church behind to follow a more Pagan spiritual path.
I think it's time for St. Francis of Assisi to come back down and rebuild the Church, as he did nearly 1000 years ago.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 03:02 pm (UTC)This assumes that the priest taking the confession is also taking an unquestioning by-the-book Vatican line with the people entering his confessional. Which is also a large assumption in today's RC church.
Sheesh, doesn't anyone else read Andrew Greeley these days?
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 04:57 pm (UTC)Whistling innocently....
(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 05:22 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 05:50 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-04-23 07:28 pm (UTC)