Bush-Kerry Debate Thread

[filkertom]

Okay, what did y'all think?

Comments

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

Feh. Glad Kerry looked okay. He could have been terser and more punchy, and missed a couple of opportunities for knockout punches. Bush looked and sounded like a second-grader, facial expressions and all.

I miss the League of Women Voters and nonpartisan, hard-hitting questions, with real opportunities to rebut. But I know I'm not a typical voter.

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

Kerry didn't do a great job but was articulate and made sense.

Bush, OTOH, failed. Miserably.

[seanmonster.livejournal.com]

I may be imagening this, but I could of sworn that the audience merely clapped for Dubya (who came onto the stage first), and then cheered for Kerry's entrance.

Sure, Kerry could have been a bit more agressive, but I thought he did a pretty good job of putting Bush on the defensive. The topic, after all, was the 'war' on terror and homeland defense, which were supposed to be Bush's strong points.

I liked how Kerry outlined how the war jumped from Afganistan(Osama/terrorism) to Iraq (Saddam/WMDs) without any real proof of a Iraq-Al Qaida conection, not to mention that our job in Afganistan wasn't done before Bush and Co. said 'Who's next?'.

::cue Mortal Kombat theme::
Next Round:
Edwards vs. Cheney!
Fight!

[eibii.livejournal.com]

I found it oddly amusing how the networks arranged the splitscreen shots of Kerry and Bush, so that their heads both came up to the same level. It looked like Bush had been squashed by a Python weight, and then propped up on a few telephone books.

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Nothing decisive out of this debate.

One thing I'm noting, between a number of sources, is that Kerry supporters think Bush looked bad. I've not heard any non-partisan sources say that, though. So there may be a bit of "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" action going on, and Kerry fans should perhaps not be too surprised if the public as a whole doesn't agree with them.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

A question, not meant to sound like an attack but I'm afraid it will: Did you watch it? Or did you listen to it, or catch up this morning?

[umbran.livejournal.com]

A little of each, actually.

For the point I make above, it isn't terribly relevant what I saw. I'm anti-Bush, so I don't trust my own readings much. I expect Bush to look bad to my eyes, so I don't trust that I see what everyone else does.

As far as I can tell (and this is a broad generalization from skimpy data, admittedly), Kerry supporters think Bush looked bad. But I don't see signs that Bush supporters or undecideds think that. So far, it doesn't look like Bush "pulled a Nixon".

The polls that happen over the next 72 hours wil tell a more full story.

[technocracygirl.livejournal.com]

Looking at conservatism, it seems that many Republicans who watched the debate also think their guy came out number two.

Heh.

[wormquartet.livejournal.com]

As Jello Biafra pointed out, every time you see Bush in a situation like this, he always has a look on his face like he knows he doesn't belong where he is. Watching him stutter, look confused, and blink thirty-seven times a second while he responded to everything Kerry said by reiterating the exact same accusations over and over again was somewhat amusing...but I think his biggest mistake was the way he so blatantly and obviously twisted around Kerry's words, pulling his usual trick of jumping to oversimplified conclusions (such as the idea that you can't question whether a war is necesssary while you're involved in it) as if they were obvious, rather than backing them up. The idea behind this kind of speech is that if you casually just accept something as true, without making a big deal out of it, it subconsciously leads the listener along with you. This kind of attempted puppeteering of the public mind always annoys the living crap out of me. Conclusions based on this sort of manipulation are all Bush ever seems to have to offer (it's sure as hell how he got the country to support the Iraq war simply by MENTIONING Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden in the same sentence over and over and over again without drawing any direct relation between them.) Last night, though, proves that he's getting worse at it...his attempts to pull his usual tricks were far more obvious than usual. Hopefully people saw through it.

Obviously, W won't be getting my vote...but I still don't know if I can vote for Kerry. I hate the fact that our democratic elections always end up reduced to a "lesser of two evils" contest where everyone's terrified to let the wrong lizard win. I look at every vote for a third party candidate as a well-deserved attack on that mentality.

Dammit, it's too early for political ramblings.

-=ShoEboX=-

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

Kerry seemed more at ease in the debate, more ablle to think and rrespond on his feet. To borrow a phrase from erinlefey "Bush looked like an organ grinder monkey who'd lost his fez."

And to folks who think voting for Kerry is the lesser of evils, let Bush wiin and we'll truly see a superlative evil.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

I think Bush did good when he was on message, which is his strength. But when he was forced into virgin territory, he foundered.

Kerry was smooth if a tad shallow, needed to pump it up a little. Handled both message and virgin areas at about the same level.

Kerry looked comfortable, Bush looked scared.

Over all I would say the supporters are each side will feeled boosted, but I don't think either side won any undecideds or changed anyone's mind.

The next one, the "Town Hall" style debate is going to be Kerry territory, Bush is going to drown.

I'm really looking forward to the VP debate.. should be entertaining if nothing else.

[teddywolf.livejournal.com]

You might want to check out atrios or TalkingPointsMemo - they both have links to news organizations that checked the numbers. I didn't see what Fox Ab(N)ewse had, but apparently every other news organization put a solid if not huge in Kerry's corner, and *big* lead for him with undecideds.

[arensb.livejournal.com]

I think Bush did good when he was on message, which is his strength. But when he was forced into virgin territory, he foundered.

He's been that way throughout his presidency. When he speaks, it's obvious when he's reading a prepared speech, and when he's extemporizing.

I'm really looking forward to the VP debate.. should be entertaining if nothing else.

As one LJ poster put it, it should look like Michael J. Fox vs. Darth Vader.

[mikekn]

I thought the puppets were cool, and the songs were great.

[jedilora.livejournal.com]

That is lovely. I love Ave. Q, and it just such a them thing to do.

[skull-leader3.livejournal.com]

Was it just me, or was Bush trying not to roll his eyes or pout whenever Kerry was making a point...and looking like he was trying not to? Those faces he was making...so unprofessional.

Kerry actually looks Presidential.

[nuveena.livejournal.com]

Kerry did well, but he wasn't stellar. I think the reason he came off so well is that Bush looked like a flaming idiot. How many times did he say, "It's hard work!"?

Every time Kerry made an even remotely tough point, Bush kept giving me the impression that he was thinking, "He's not allowed to say that! Why is he saying that!?"

And whatever your political stance, you've got to admit that Kerry's line about outsourcing the capture of Osama bin Laden was a pretty good zinger.

I should think, however, that Bush's handlers are not in a good mood today. This debate topic was supposed to be his ass-whuppin' strong suit, and it CERTAINLY did NOT come off that way.

[ericcoleman]

I have been trying to get into my head what Bush's expressions remind me of during such things ...

I finally got it last night

He got all of his expressions from Curly Howard

[ericcoleman]

Ok, the joke is done ...

That said ...

Bush said about 3 things last night ... over and over and over again.

That works with the uneducated gerbils that are 60% of the people who do vote.

So the right will say that Bush won ... in public.

In private there are some scared puppies in the RNC at the moment.

Expect the ad campaigns against Kerry to get REALLY ugly now. We ain't seen nothing yet.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

My impression of the debates, in a nutshell, came when Kerry questioned Bush why he was so focused on capturing Saddam Hussein when it was Osama Bin Ladin who masterminded the 9/11 attack.

Bush's response;

"I DO realize it's important to capture Saddam Hussei-... I mean Osama Bin Ladin!"

There's the bottom line to this whole damn thing, folks!

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I'm trying not to impede the conversation here -- I'm lovin' it, although I admit I think Kerry just spanked Dubya -- but I have to tell you that, about halfway through, I thought, "From the way Dubya's stuttering, Cheney must not have installed Service Pack 2".

[arensb.livejournal.com]

Heh. In the second half, I thought Bush looked as though his meds were wearing off.

A conversation at work today

[skipjim.livejournal.com]

Conversation here at work:

"I actually sat down and watched the whole debate last night" -me

"I did too." -coworker "I thought Georgie did really well"

*pause*

"Were we watching the same debate Tom?"

The common concensus around here is that people like Bush because "he's like us". People don't like it when I point out that very few of "us" are actually Harvard Graduates with MBA's from Yale (or is it the other way around?).

Anyway I thought Kerry did a much better job than GWB last night, at no time did I think he got stumped, there were several times when Bush was just staring at the camera trying desperately to think of something to say.

Did anyone else notice Bush slouched through the whole debate?

Re: A conversation at work today

[ororo.livejournal.com]

The common concensus around here is that people like Bush because "he's like us".

You know, that's a logic I've never been able to fathom. I don't vote for people that are like me, I vote for people I think are going to do what I want them to do. They don't have to be like me to do that. Another short brainy cute blonde Polish Buddhist might disagree with my take on things.

Re: A conversation at work today

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

You could say, "Oh, you're a child of privilege who ran an oil company and a baseball team into the ground and was bailed out by rich family friends before becoming governor of Texas and authorizing the execution of over 150 people, too?"

Re: A conversation at work today

[ororo.livejournal.com]

*applause*applause*

I shoulda thoughta little more.

Re: A conversation at work today

[skipjim.livejournal.com]

You can't forget he traded Sammy Sosa....You've got to work that in there somewhere.

Re: A conversation at work today

[skipjim.livejournal.com]

Most people want to think that the President is some one that they could hang out with and have something in common.

Where I work being a reformed alcoholic would not make you out of the ordinary. I can remember one company get together where there were 6 of us sitting at a table and we averaged roughly 2 felony convictions each, and two of us have never been arrested, it's a good crowd =]. Yes I was one of the felony free people....

I for one would rather hang out with Bill Clinton that Bush any day (I figure we'd have a lot better chance of picking up chicks with Bill than George).

Boy I'm glad my wife doesn't read this.....

Re: A conversation at work today

[wormquartet.livejournal.com]

No Republican or Democratic presidential candidate in the history of the country has been "like us." It takes too much money to run.

-=ShoEboX=-

[kightp.livejournal.com]

I think I had more fun running a rehearsal than I would have watching the debate. (-:

[firedrake-mor.livejournal.com]

I noticed Bush slouched, and held on to the podium for dear life, and half the time looked like he swallowed a lemon.

Bush's gaffe regarding the Saddam/Osama phrase was, as unclelumpy said, telling. I remain convinced that Dubya went after Saddam a) because Saddam had plotted against Bush #41 (his daddy), and b) because of the oil interests. Kerry made a telling point about the objectives of defending the Iraqi oil ministry, and not the nuclear agencies in Iraq.

Bush's returning to each of Kerry's phrases with which he disagreed got old quickly. "Wrong war, wrong time, wrong place . . ." as a "message" to be sent isn't the point. The point, to me, was that Bush got us into this, but Kerry has the stones to get us out. I'm not interested in sending a "message" to the Iraqis. I'm interested in the actions that will stabilize the region and get us the heck out. Kerry's comments about the 14 military bases being built was also telling about our current intents there.

I admit to being for Kerry. I also watched the debate very carefully to see if he'd finally gotten his own act together, and I believe he did. There are a couple of gaffes Bush made that I wish Kerry had hit harder, but maybe that'll come.

I'm watching Bay Buchanan on CNN right now, and even she's having trouble articulating what she's trying to portray as Bush's "victory." She's -stuttering-, for cryin' out loud.

I got sick of Bush's reference to "it's hard work" and supporting the "hard workin' people" who're at the pointy end in Iraq. I'm a vet -- my back is screwed up all to h-e-double toothpicks because of my military service, and I have a feeling Bush doesn't -know- what it costs, emotionally and physically, to be in combat, or what it costs the families of those wounded and killed.

The best joke I've heard so far this morning was, "How can you tell the difference between Hurricane Ivan and President Bush?" Answer: "There's proof Ivan was in Alabama."

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Snort. Good one!

By several counts, Bush said "hard work" eleven times, and referred to his job as "hard" a total of 21 times. I know a lot of people who'd be happy to give him some time off....

[nuveena.livejournal.com]

It really, really grated. Like, DUH, of course being the POTUS is hard work, that's why you interview for it for two years...

And, hey, he talks to foreign leaders on the phone... "frequently!" Well, now, that makes me feel SO much better.

[skull-leader3.livejournal.com]

Did any of you also notice how he dodged Jim Lehrer's question about his statements that America would be in more danger of attack if Kerry were elected, among others? More than once, I was on the verge of singing the "Sidestep" number from Best Little Whorehouse in Texas.

Hey, Tom, think you could come up with something to that tune for Shrub to perform? Heehehehehehehehehehhe....

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty busy this afternoon -- but it's too good an idea. Let me see....

[/scamper]

Couldn't Do It

[janet-coburn.livejournal.com]

I couldn't bring myself to watch. The only issue I really cared about--whether it would change the minds of any undecided voters--I could not learn from watching. Plus, I have a weak stomach and was out of Pepto.

Re: Couldn't Do It

[jss]

Ditto. On all counts.