Anything which tries to talk about what "the United States" feels or wants (as in "has an insatiable appetite for conflict," gets turned off immediately. The same applies to blanket statements about the feelings or desires of any other group not all of whose members are personally known to the speaker. It's called bigotry, and I want no part of it.
I'm sorry if it offended you. That was not my purpose, nor, I think, its purpose.
The point of the ad, I think, is twofold: [1] the prime motivating force behind much of the tragedy of the last several years is the neoconservative group Partners for a New American Century, the true target of the ad; [2] the actions of the US around the world have to be described as belonging to the US, i.e., We The People share some responsibility for letting these guys get in power.
For quite awhile now, there has been a sentiment of "Americans are fine, it's America that's the problem" growing around the world. Indications are that this is narrowing, and the American people will be held responsible, and more susceptible to international derision, hatred, and violence, if we don't vote clean up our act and start acting like good neighbors. Voting BushCo out of power would be the first step.
I don't mind the ad's condemnation of the *actions* of America as a unit; that's a legitimate shorthand for the actions of the government in its official capacity. When it starts talking about the *feelings* of America as a unit, it loses me fast.
I understand that, but it's also an issue that most of the world knows the US only by what it sees on CNN or what's flying overhead or exploding around them. Yeah, it's inflammatory; yeah, it's generalizing -- on the other hand, something has to get people to notice the PNAC and their none-too-subtle agenda.
Sure. But the same way I don't have a quarrel with people saying things about al-Qaeda that I have grave problems if they say about "the Arabs," I don't have a quarrel with them saying things about the specific groups with agendae that I have grave problems if they say about "America."
Accuracy about a subgroup is no excuse for bigotry against the larger category. The offense is not what is said, but using much too broad a brush.
If they actually *made* that distinction you'd be right
See, I don't think that was your purpose, but I *do* think that it was *their* purpose.
I agree with ONLY ONE thing they said, and that was about the New American Century.
I'm an American, and personally, Britain and France DO matter to me, so yeah, I took exception to the message.
Dick Cheney basically said, "Vote for us and no one gets hurt". I disagreed with him vehemently. I'm voting against him.
But...
This video claims that September 11 was a reaction to Dick Cheney et al's decision making...and youre extrapolating on that to say, "...and the American people will be held responsible, and more susceptible to international derision, hatred, and violence, if we don't vote clean up our act and start acting like good neighbors. Voting BushCo out of power would be the first step.",
Basically, youre message is the same thing as Dick was, but only in favor of Kerry. Vote for Kerry and we MIGHT NOT be hurt.
And what's fair for them is fair for us.
Yes we need to get shrub out out there, but this type of reasoning is the opposite of help: If enough Kerry supporters feel this way, we will have WAY FEWER KERRY SUPPORTERS. Please remember that.
One of the things that has never been done, certainly not by this administration, is try to figure out why these guys hate us. Not to sympathize with them, not to "feel their pain", but to truly figure out the specific things that burn in their guts so bad that some of them blow themselves up to take some of us with them.
And, yes, I'm well aware of the indoctrination techniques, the promises of dozens of virgins in heaven, the wiping away of sins, etc., etc. That's not what I mean.
Dubya keeps saying these people "hate freedom". That is one of the stupidest arguments in the history of the world.
We're not even sure who or where these people are. And until we try to see it from their point of view -- again, not to sympathize, not to show compassion to terrorists, but to look at things from their eyes -- I don't think we will ever stop this.
And BushCo, propelled by PNAC, are not only unqualified to see things that way, they're uninterested.
Thanks to Dubya et al., we are the bad guys now. And ignoring that is dangerous. Cheney basically said "Vote for us and no one gets hurt"; I say the difference in this particular video is, "Vote for Kerry and we've got a chance to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world".
Yes, yes, I know. Dubya would say something about "needing the world's approval". That stupid little shit doesn't know how to deal with anybody who is a toady, and that leaves out a hell of a lot of people. We live in the world; it's damn well way past time we remembered that we have to work with it.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 02:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 03:06 pm (UTC)The point of the ad, I think, is twofold: [1] the prime motivating force behind much of the tragedy of the last several years is the neoconservative group Partners for a New American Century, the true target of the ad; [2] the actions of the US around the world have to be described as belonging to the US, i.e., We The People share some responsibility for letting these guys get in power.
For quite awhile now, there has been a sentiment of "Americans are fine, it's America that's the problem" growing around the world. Indications are that this is narrowing, and the American people will be held responsible, and more susceptible to international derision, hatred, and violence, if we don't vote clean up our act and start acting like good neighbors. Voting BushCo out of power would be the first step.
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 03:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 05:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 06:12 pm (UTC)Accuracy about a subgroup is no excuse for bigotry against the larger category. The offense is not what is said, but using much too broad a brush.
Call me Mercutio...
Date: 2004-10-20 05:37 pm (UTC)See, I don't think that was your purpose, but I *do* think that it was *their* purpose.
I agree with ONLY ONE thing they said, and that was about the New American Century.
I'm an American, and personally, Britain and France DO matter to me, so yeah, I took exception to the message.
Dick Cheney basically said, "Vote for us and no one gets hurt". I disagreed with him vehemently. I'm voting against him.
But...
This video claims that September 11 was a reaction to Dick Cheney et al's decision making...and youre extrapolating on that to say, "...and the American people will be held responsible, and more susceptible to international derision, hatred, and violence, if we don't vote clean up our act and start acting like good neighbors. Voting BushCo out of power would be the first step.",
Basically, youre message is the same thing as Dick was, but only in favor of Kerry. Vote for Kerry and we MIGHT NOT be hurt.
And what's fair for them is fair for us.
Yes we need to get shrub out out there, but this type of reasoning is the opposite of help: If enough Kerry supporters feel this way, we will have WAY FEWER KERRY SUPPORTERS. Please remember that.
Re: Call me Mercutio...
Date: 2004-10-20 07:21 pm (UTC)One of the things that has never been done, certainly not by this administration, is try to figure out why these guys hate us. Not to sympathize with them, not to "feel their pain", but to truly figure out the specific things that burn in their guts so bad that some of them blow themselves up to take some of us with them.
And, yes, I'm well aware of the indoctrination techniques, the promises of dozens of virgins in heaven, the wiping away of sins, etc., etc. That's not what I mean.
Dubya keeps saying these people "hate freedom". That is one of the stupidest arguments in the history of the world.
We're not even sure who or where these people are. And until we try to see it from their point of view -- again, not to sympathize, not to show compassion to terrorists, but to look at things from their eyes -- I don't think we will ever stop this.
And BushCo, propelled by PNAC, are not only unqualified to see things that way, they're uninterested.
Thanks to Dubya et al., we are the bad guys now. And ignoring that is dangerous. Cheney basically said "Vote for us and no one gets hurt"; I say the difference in this particular video is, "Vote for Kerry and we've got a chance to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the world".
Yes, yes, I know. Dubya would say something about "needing the world's approval". That stupid little shit doesn't know how to deal with anybody who is a toady, and that leaves out a hell of a lot of people. We live in the world; it's damn well way past time we remembered that we have to work with it.
... Duh-hrrr....
Date: 2004-10-21 05:55 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 03:44 pm (UTC)Who's the narrator? Sounds like Patrick Allen..
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 10:33 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-21 03:39 pm (UTC)well made but my eyes are burnin'
(no subject)
Date: 2004-10-20 04:20 pm (UTC)