Veterans Day

[filkertom]

To me, "supporting the troops" means something different than I suspect it does to others. I feel we are in the middle of a horrific, stupid, illegal war in Iraq. We should not be there, and our government has lied to us repeatedly about it. I do not support the actions or motives of our government.

But the men and women whose lives are in danger over there -- the ones fighting and dying in the name of the US -- them, I support whole-heartedly. They have volunteered to serve our country in the most profound way possible, and I hope each and every one makes it home alive and safe.

Here is the official Veterans Day site, and here is a lovely and poignant site of Remembrance at the BBC.

And, so that we do not forget the present in the remembrance of the past, here is the running total of coalition casualties at CNN.com.

Comments

[awfulhorrid.livejournal.com]

I'm a veteran. My Dad is a veteran. My Grandfather etc. etc. ... I have quite a few friends who are still active duty. When I say I support the troops, I'm not thinking of some nice young person in a uniform I saw on TV last week, I have very specific people that I can name ... people I've hugged and people that I love.

The best thing we could possibly do for our troops? Bring them home.

[isolde-deely.livejournal.com]

That's the support I wish also. My husband is a veteran, and fortunately, was never shipped overseas fr Desert Storm.

Bring them home.

Some thoughts

[janet-coburn.livejournal.com]

I've been struggling lately with what it means to "support our troops." Here are a few thoughts, which have refused to coalesce into anything like a position.

Thought 1: Whatever else it means, it probably doesn't mean buying a magnetic vinyl yellow ribbon for the car, unless the proceeds go to some veteran's or family outreach group, which I doubt.

Thought 2: Since our tax dollars are paying for the war, we are all supporting the troops in a very real and concrete way.

Thought 3: The "support the troops" language is probably a reaction to how Vietnam veterans were treated when they returned to the U.S.

Thought 4: I'm not sure it makes sense to say one supports the troops without supporting the war they're in. It's a volunteer military. Granted, they don't get to pick which wars to fight. Granted, minorities are over-represented in the armed forces because they have so few other career choices. But it feels a bit uncomfortable to say, blame everything on the higher-ups and give a pass to the people doing the actual shooting, bombing, and sometimes worse.

Thought 5: To say I support the troops but not what they're doing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Is it just a way of saying I don't think they're bad people even if they're doing harm?

Thought 6: If the troops were actually doing something worthwhile, such as defending the U.S., it would make things much clearer. But they're defending the interests of big oil, and that's different.

Thought 7: I have no qualms about saying I support the families of the troops, understand their fear and pain, and their need to believe that their loved ones are doing something worthwhile and honorable.

Any other thoughts, anyone?

Re: Some thoughts

[arensb.livejournal.com]

Thought 5: To say I support the troops but not what they're doing doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Is it just a way of saying I don't think they're bad people even if they're doing harm?

That's not it, at least not to me.

A soldier in a volunteer army is someone who has volunteered to place himself in harm's way on my behalf. They know that there's a definite risk that they'll get shot, burned, blown up, bleed, lose limbs or organs, or die.

So there should be a tacit understanding that they won't be asked to do this unless it's necessary. In WWII, there were clear reasons for going to war, like "The Japanese attacked us". Even Gulf War 1 was basically "The Kuwaitis were invaded by that rat-bastard Saddam, and we're defending them." The current war is a lot more murky: "We thought that rat-bastard Saddam had weapons, and we didn't wait to check really thoroughly because we thought he might use them on us, because, um, just a feeling, really."

So I don't see anything paradoxical or contradictory about raising money to buy cousin Ted an armored vest, then heading down to the Mall[1] to march against the war.

[1]: In the Washington, DC area, going to the Mall does not necessarily involve shopping.

[firedrake-mor.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I'm a vet, from a family of vets, named after two uncles killed at Midway. I agree with Janet almost wholeheartedly.

Being a Vietnam-era vet (though I wound up in Europe) I can almost guarantee that this movement is a response to what happened to soldiers during that time. It was dreadful.

Her thought number 6, though, is thought-provoking -- whatever the men and women over there are doing, they are doing because they're following their orders (see her #4). It's a question, truly of whether or not the interests of "big oil" ARE the interests of the US -- they certainly are the interests of the current administration. A soldier, sailor, airman, or marine spends many months learning his or her duty and specialty, and mission briefings are intense and detailed. In a sense, you are almost "programmed" to do that duty automatically. Questioning of illegal orders is certainly allowed, but little-tolerated in an active combat zone (cf. the convoy who refused to move out because they had insufficient escort and no armor recently). Sometimes doing that duty leaves scars both physical and emotional, and some of those are permanent.

As for her #7. Also thank you. I spent my first 18 years being dragged from pillar to post across the nation as my father's duty stations and family crises changed and arose. The families serve, just as truly as the service member on active duty. Heck, my wife serves, even now, in dealing with the back injury and degenerative problems my military service left me with.

For all my brothers and sisters in arms, past and present, I raise a glass. We did our duty!

Dear Husband

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

"Heck, my wife serves, even now, in dealing with the back injury and degenerative problems my military service left me with."

Do you want to know why I put up with it all? Because in a very real sense, the bullets you faced were meant for any US American who got in their way. Including ME. I didn't do military service but I feel I am serving my country in a small way by doing part of the VA's job and making one veteran's life livable. OK, so it's only one starfish on the whole beach but it appears to matter to this one!

Love, Me

Awwwwww

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

:) Big hugs to both of you. And, Thank You.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

I think it is a good idea that we have a strong military, and I am grateful to the people who serve. The people on the ground in Iraq weren't given the choice of whether to be part of that war, and they certainly can't be blamed for the fact that their commander made bad decisions for bad reasons. It is becaues I do support the troops that I am so upset at the way they're being misused.

They have volunteered to serve our country in the most profound way possible...

The thing that most upsets me about Bush's handling of this war is that so many of the people actually fighting and dying did not volunteer for what they're doing. People volunteer to join the National Guard and Reserves to be available if there is a real emergency that actually threatens the people here at home, not to be used in elective adventures in some other country. There is a case that invading Iraq was a good idea, but there is no case (based on facts) that it Iraq was a threat to the continued existence of America so immediate that there was no alternative to calling out the Guard. It's conscription in all but name and a betrayal of everyone who ever served in the Guard, made even more poignant in the light of the President's own service in the Guard when so many of his peers who didn't have the connections to get into the Guard were dying the way he's sending the Guard to die now.

If the country really supported the troops, they would have just fired their boss.

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

"We can support the troops without supporting the President." - Trent Lott

[sdelmonte]

Those have long been my feelings.

A few veterans in my thoughts...

My father served in the army in the mid-50s, never leaving the country. He was trained as a cook - my mother still has the cookbook - and then was assigned as a clerk.

My wife's grandfathers served in WWII. Her paternal grandfather was a chaplain in Louisiana, not a rabbi perse but well-vesed enough to fill the function at a time when I would guess rabbis in the military were rare. Her maternal grandfather was sent to England to teach soldiers German, since he spoke Yiddish, occasionally getting in a little trouble when he forgot his German in favor of the "mama loshen."

My mother's first cousin, long a surrogate father to me, was in the Battle of the Bulge, and suffered severe frostbite and hearing damage. The frostbite passed but the hearing damage remains to this day.

I know very few people in today's military, but I have a friend who at last report was in South Korea, trying not to think too much about what's on the other side of the border. Let's remember not on the men and women in harm's way in Iraq but also those throughout the world, striving to defend this nation while also striving to show the world that not everyone thinks like Dubya.

[poltr1]

"Support our troops" means more than "bring 'em back alive". They're going to have a heluva time re-adjusting to civilian life. Some don't quite do it and snuff themselves. :-(

There is a weekend-long program out there called Bamboo Bridge (soon to be renamed "The Vet's Journey Home" to widen the focus beyond Vietnam War vets) that gives vets a chance to open up, tell their stories, share their war wounds and grief in a safe container, and finally be welcomed home. Some of my New Warrior brothers in Indiana have participated in these weekends.

[madmanotl.livejournal.com]

Tom, You couldn't put my thoughts about the armed forces better.
Hopefully, this useless war will end soon.
Anyone else notice that the most violent fighting in a long time happens to occur after just the election?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, we noticed. In fact, many predicted that BushCo wouldn't launch the newest attacks on Fallujah until after the elections, so as not to unduly remind people that Our Kids were getting their asses blown up on a daily basis over there. And that's precisely what happened.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

Thank you, Tom, from a veteran.

Support our troops in Viet Nam

[celticferret.livejournal.com]

I grew up with the Viet Nam war and the nightly body counts on the news. I have this big black light poster that says "Support our troops in Viet nam" and goes on to list in smaller and smaller type all the countries we were in at the time.

Bush has screwed our troops. He's cut back on vet services at the vet hospitals. He tried and failed to get away with charging recovering soldiers for food of all things. Our troops and vets deserve the best we can give them. They deserve to get money for a decent education, assuming they survive to cash in on the deal. They deserve the loans from the VA to buy homes, assuming they come home to a decent enough paying job to even be able to afford a home. The vets who served in other wars shouldn't be screwed over by the VA. It is now a six month wait to get in to see a doc.

KG