Barefoot & Preggers

[filkertom]

twfarlan caught this one, a lovely little screed on why it's ungodly to not have kids.

Let's be a little more clear on this: If you're married, and you don't have kids, you're cheating God.

The church must help this society regain its sanity on the gift of children. Willful barrenness and chosen childlessness must be named as moral rebellion. To demand that marriage means sex -- but not children -- is to defraud the creator of His joy and pleasure in seeing the saints raising His children. That is just the way it is. No kidding.

Anybody else who's sick and tired of celibate old guys telling people how to live their lives, especially in matters of sexuality, family planning, and Who Exactly Is Gonna Pay For This, raise your hand.

Comments

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

Sex without children is rebellion againt their morality.

Anyone who thinks that's bad, please leave my reality to people who think.

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

Rebel against people like this! Everyone go have lots and lots of sex! Yaaay!

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

Does that mean that infertile couples are abominations?
And if God wanted everyone to have children, then why did he create rubber?

[lemur-lady.livejournal.com]

No, only couples who are capable of having children but choose not to are abominations. *sigh*

I love my husband very much, but he'd be a terrible father. And parenting is not an endeavor I care enough for to be willing to undertake it without support. I think a kid deserves better than to be brought into such an environment, hence, there will be no sprogging. I'd like to think I have better things to do with my life than replicate my own DNA anyway.

[wookiee71.livejournal.com]

I done had myself snipped in rebellion to the whole concept. Just because people marry doesn't preclude that children should be the next step.

Once again, the church would like to remove that pesky little notion of freewill and personal choice, only to replace it with mindless minion-like thinking.

I pray for Fenton to show them the error of their ways. Muahahaha!

Er... who's church?

[anneb.livejournal.com]

>the church would like to remove that pesky little notion of freewill and personal choice...

(Meanwhile, as the parade of children walks down the street, singing...)

As the
Harry Blackitt: ... and, Protestantism doesn't stop at the simple condom. Oh, no. I can wear French Ticklers if I want.

Mrs. Blackitt: You what?

Harry Blackitt: French Ticklers. Black Mambos. Crocodile Ribs. Sheaths that are designed not only to protect, but also to enhance the stimulation of sexual congress.

Mrs. Blackitt: Have you got one?

Harry Blackitt: Have I got one? Uh, well, no, but I can go down the road any time I want and walk into Harry's and hold my head up high and say in a loud, steady voice, 'Harry, I want you to sell me a condom. In fact, today, I think I'll have a French Tickler, for I am a Protestant.'

Mrs. Blackitt: Well, why don't you?

Harry Blackitt: But they - Well, they cannot, 'cause their church never made the great leap out of the Middle Ages and the domination of alien Episcopal supremacy.


(Python, Meaning of Life)

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

I adore being a father, its amazing, fulfilling and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

BUT its not for everyone. I have many friends, some of whom are reading this right now, who should not reproduce. And alas there are also a great many people who SHOULD have choosen not to reproduce.

Someone should remind the fanatics that Free Choice is the basis of all belief...

[technocracygirl.livejournal.com]

Someone should remind the fanatics that Free Choice is the basis of all belief...

And really, how are you going to feel morally superior to anyone if they all do the same things you do? *takes toungue out of cheek*

[faxpaladin.livejournal.com]

One minor point: The author, according to his website, is married and has two kids.

Not that this gives him the right to Call Down the Wrath of God upon those who choose to remain childless (and the reasons for that choice are not always as selfish as he makes them out to be), but at least he practices what he preaches. In this case, anyway.

[arensb.livejournal.com]

Not that this gives him the right to Call Down the Wrath of God upon those who choose to remain childless

Like priests, monks, and nuns?

[dragonscholar.livejournal.com]

So have babies because god needs entertainment?

[valkyrwench.livejournal.com]

I dutifully had my two kids, way back when. If I had to go back and do it all over again, knowing what I know now? Not on your life. I love my kids, but I'm so glad they're grown and out of the house (mostly). And really, parenthood is another of those issues that should be labeled "You do what you want with your life, and leave my life the fuck alone."

[roisnoir.livejournal.com]

I think it's a way of making sure everyone goes through the trouble he had to when he got stuck with diapers or snotty noses. Misery loves company, or something trite like that. (Personally, *MY* misery likes dark chocolate and mint ice cream.)

I'm too selfish to want to make the sacrifices needed to be a good parent, and have a very low tolerance for ick. No littles for me.
But I'm happy to be the friend who buys the black onesies, vampire fang pacifiers, and dyes the kid's hair pink in time for preshool.

[shatteredglobe.livejournal.com]

But I'm happy to be the friend who buys the black onesies, vampire fang pacifiers, and dyes the kid's hair pink in time for preshool.

That reminds me of one of my friends. He said he didn't want to be a parent, but he'd be the friend of the parents there for the child's first piercing, their first tattoo, etc.

Awk, these people are in my city...

[gypsy1969.livejournal.com]

The Psalmist declared: "Behold, children are a gift of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward." for a reason. People have to be told it is a gift, because their eyes can see that parenting is a pain in the butt.

Of course I divorced my first husband because he didn't want children and I did. We both thought we could change the other's mind. Yeah right. There's true SF for you.

I then looked for a man who not only wanted them, but was good with them. We planned on 5 or more, but my body gave out after 2. We conceived our first child even before wedlock. Why? Because we heard on NPR that intelligent well educated people were no longer having children and soon only stupid people would be having children and our society would falter as a result. My children are smart, but I don't think they will save the world from ruination. We are doing our part though: thoughtful people having planned thoughtful chilren.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

This from the same people that say aborting is a sin that is fairly punished by killing people with bombs, and such, and that have absolutely no clue the true hell of living in poverty with not enough money for the mouths you have to feed.

Do these people ever see the statistics on child abuse or neglect?

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Ah, but you see, those with Faith (tm) need not worry about such petty things as money. If you really, truly trust in Gawd, then He will provide.

Those for whom He has not provided, of course, clearly didn't have sufficient Faith (tm).

[crwilley.livejournal.com]

To demand that marriage means sex -- but not children -- is to defraud the creator of His joy and pleasure in seeing the saints raising His children.


...so does that mean we heathen types are off the hook? Do you really want me raising six little atheist babies, who will grow up and each raise six little atheist babies of their own? :)

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

You know, I really wish someone could convince Fundamentalists that bringing children into a world that is being readied for the Apocalypse and the reign of the Beast was against the will of God. We'd see so many less of them in the future that way.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Various reactions.

"Celibate"? Not all of them. While the Catholic Church is a major member of this group, it's not the only one.

The people who say "I'm too selfish" are maybe buying into this a little bit. They think, on some level, that they don't choose to have children because of a fault. It isn't a fault. It's free will. God-given and all that.

It's a cheap shot to say religious people don't think. They do. Many of them, even the ones we think are wrong, are intelligent, articulate and probably better socialised than we are. They are simply mistaken. It happens to us too.

But mainly:

You can DEFRAUD GOD???!!?? Woo hoo!!! "Dear Lord, I have some land in Florida, left to me by my dear old Aunt Reba..."

"Too selfish"

[janetmiles.livejournal.com]

I've been saying for years that I won't have children because I don't want the responsibility. (And I had my tubes tied when I was 24, to help ensure that.)

I also have a lousy genetic history (cancer on both sides of the family, diabetes on both sides of the family, Parkinson's, biochemical depression), and see no need to pass that on.

I also don't particularly like children.

[jhayman.livejournal.com]

It's a point of view. Not a valid one in my book. But I can't help but think that in this churches are playing right into the hands of evolution. THE ONLY imperative of evolution is survival of ones genes. Offspring are mandatory for that.

We are mostly hardwired to be interested in offspring (of our own). We learn to accept that we have physical, emotional, social psychological, financial, etc limitations that mean we choose not to exercise the option to reproduce. Making reproduction a moral imperative of a church means we're going with a LESS thought out approach to becoming a parent...? (GRIN).

I'd be amused, but this faction is growing.

OTOH, for those of us who (albeit reluctantly) chose children, the child-free could, instead of referring to us as breeders in a derogatory fashion, perhaps remember who'll be staffing their nursing home, giving out their pension cheques, approving their medicare: our kids.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

No, see, most of us childfree don't plan on living in nursing homes and such. Many of us subscribe to the philosophy that one ought not arrive in the afterlife in a well-tended yet age-riddled body that has never known the joys of life. Instead, we will slide in at a relatively young age, ripped and battered and in all likelihood liquered up, smiling and yelling, "Man, what a ride!"

*raises her hand*

[sylverwolfe.livejournal.com]

kane and i are agreed that, at least for the present moment, neither of us is patient enough to consider raising a child. i like my little cousins and my friend jeanette's baby girl just fine, but i also like being able to hand them off to their rightful owners when i hvae things i need to do that require two hands, or when the ick factor kicks in. i'm sure that when i'm ready i'll be a great mom, and when kane's ready he'll be a great dad. but we're NOT ready, and we'd like it rather a lot if people left us the bloody hell alone about it. while i know that not all religious-minded people are idiots, the zealot quoted here is going a long way towards promotion the notion that they are. i have a bad temper. i know i do. it's mellowing out as i get older, but i don't want to take the risk of snapping, totally losing it, and hurting a child who depends on me for survival. i don't know where/if i'm going to grad school, and i don't have a job that i can see myself actually making a career from, and i don't want my heart broken by hungry baby cries. most importantly, i'd like to think that with free will, the divinity of my choice understands why i think the way i do and probably appreciates my planning.
zealots, putting the "mental" back in "fundamentalist" every day.

raised hand

[isolde-deely.livejournal.com]

I don't see that I would be a good parent. I have very little patience with children, and have literally no clue how to entertain tham - with the exception of dubheach's M. She apparently chases laser pointer dots, like a cat :)

So I decided I wouldn't become a parent.

Gotta love *grimace* thouse zaealots.

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

Funny, but the (Christian) marriage vows I took were along the lines of "love, honor and cherish". At no point did I hear "get sprogged up".

As I told my classmates in a teacher-certification course, when we were talking about the Seven Life Crises (psych class), one of which is "the need to pass something on to the next generation":
"My wife has a congenital heart defect and a family history of epilepsy. I have asthma and a family history of diabetes and alcoholism. Leaving aside for the moment the question of whether or not we can have children, we've decided that it wouldn't be ethical to bring a life into the world with that kind of genetic lottery. I will face this crisis by 'raising' a classroom of 'offspring'."

Somehow, in the minds of the self-important mommy-creatures in the class (who seemed to confuse a college campus with a daycare center), this became "I hate children". Right. I hate children. That's why I'm taking a teacher-cert course.

In any case, I refuse to allow someone else to declare that my marriage isn't valid until I turn my wife into a broodmare. During the wedding ceremony, the priest himself remarked that the purpose of marriage is "for mutual companionship and protection and, when it is the Will of God, the raising of children" (emphasis added). During our pre-marriage counselling, he made it clear that part of being Good Stewards of the Earth -- y'know, like Christians are supposed to be, allegedly -- involved making responsible decisions about having children.

All that malarkey in the article about how childless couples "rely on others to produce and sustain the generations to come"...okay, when we're actually suffering from a dearth of people, give me a call. Last I checked, we had rather the reverse problem. Lord, we've been fruitful. We've multiplied. There's not enough food for all of us. Now what?

Speaking as one of the "saved"

[capplor.livejournal.com]

I LIKE the idea of having good people around who don't have children. They're called "aunties" and "uncles" and I want more. I don't care if their reasons for not having kids are inability, distrust of their own genes, homosexuality or compelling other interests (which might ALSO enrich the environment).

[video-savant.livejournal.com]

Sounds like "Childless by Choice" is the new Gay.

Hated by The Church®, but more disposable income (yay).

What do I care what people do behind closed doors, any more than they should care what I do, or don't do.

Sheesh. No wonder I'm 'lapsed.'

[hitchkitty.livejournal.com]

"Childless by Choice" is the new Gay

Oh, I am SO stealing that.

[wormquartet.livejournal.com]

OHMIGAWD! Good thing I had Steve...I'd hate to piss God off! Cuz, I mean, before I accidentally knocked up my wife last year, we were just boinking for the hell of it! Seriously! Boink, boink, boink, boink, boink, boink, boink...and I bet God was watching each time and getting angrier and angrier and making little checkmarks next to my name until finally...FINALLY I managed to fertilize something and make a person. *PHEW!* So Steve's my little ticket out of eternal damnation! In your face, you childless heathens who have sex with your spouses just because you LIKE them!

Incidentally, has anyone made an "immaculate misconception" pun yet?

-=ShoEboX=-

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

...












... We have got to get you a new pharmacologist.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

God may take joy in the lives of happy children being raised by able parents, but any god who takes joy in the suffering of children forced onto parents who are physically, mentally, or economically not up to the job is not worthy of worship. To insist that everyone should have children means people with serious genetic defects, people temperamentally totally unfit for child-rearing, and people who can't even support themselves. To tell such people that they must have children even if they're enlightened enough to realize it's a bad idea is vile. Despicable. Satan himself couldn't come up with a better plan for increasing human suffering.

Just as evil, but separate from the idea that it is the duty of each and every human to reproduce, is the notion that sex is evil and can only be sanctioned for the direct purpose of reproduction. Having kids is not something to do to atone for the sin of enjoying sex, and unwanted children are not the just punishment for immoral behavior.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Don't blame Satan for that nonsense. "Be fruitful and multiply" with the addition of "... or else," is creditable either to God or to his followers. Who needs a source of evil when human beings and their chosen demiurge do such a good job all by themselves?

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Oh! and don't forget all the times in the bible they have sex outside of marriage to breed... Incest makes the best family relationships?

[musicmutt.livejournal.com]

I can see where choosing not to have kids, in a world where over-population is the root cause of so many problems, is a bad thing. NOT!

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

Overpopulation *isn't* the root cause; it is itself caused in large part by evil moral attitudes about sex, birth control, and the status of women.

[kitanzi.livejournal.com]

Um, yeah. I'll be expecting to be smitten dead with a lightning bolt, or locusts, or what the hell ever any day now. Clearly, I am the Handmaiden of the Anti-Christ or some such. (Well, if THAT qualifies as morality, damn right I'm rebelling against it!)

[nubianamy.livejournal.com]

Me, and I'm not childfree by any means. But I would seriously put up a fight to preserve anyone's right NOT to have kids.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Well, that's exactly the point. Just yesterday, we were all congratulating teddywolf on the birth of his son this weekend. They wanted a kid. More power to 'em. It was their decision, and no one else's. This is the part that the religious nuts simply can't seem to get.

[kayshapero]

I guess you can find *anything* on the Internet... Given the amount of work society puts into the raising of kids, if anything's selfish, it's having them.

Whoever wrote that should consider what God thinks of people who put words in his mouth that he didn't say or intend...

What a fruit cake

[skipjim.livejournal.com]

As a father of two (and a athiest/agnostic I can't decide) I have to say this guy is full of the same stuff as my 2 year old boy's diaper.

I've always looked at it this way: If you don't want kids don't have them.

Kids take up your life, after you have they they will be a part of everything you do for the REST OF YOUR LIFE. If you're not willing to make that commitment then by all means please avoid having them!

On the other hand my kids amaze me every day and I wouldn't trade them for anything in the world.

There are people out there who simply should not be allowed to breed, let alone be required to by God.