Okay, This Is Fucking Sick

[filkertom]

One of the "moral leaders" of the Republican party, former Secretary of Education and current talk show host William Bennett, has a novel idea to reduce the crime rate:

CALLER: I noticed the national media, you know, they talk a lot about the loss of revenue, or the inability of the government to fund Social Security, and I was curious, and I've read articles in recent months here, that the abortions that have happened since Roe v. Wade, the lost revenue from the people who have been aborted in the last 30-something years, could fund Social Security as we know it today. And the media just doesn't -- never touches this at all.

BENNETT: Assuming they're all productive citizens?

CALLER: Assuming that they are. Even if only a portion of them were, it would be an enormous amount of revenue.

BENNETT: Maybe, maybe, but we don't know what the costs would be, too. I think as -- abortion disproportionately occur among single women? No.

CALLER: I don't know the exact statistics, but quite a bit are, yeah.

BENNETT: All right, well, I mean, I just don't know. I would not argue for the pro-life position based on this, because you don't know. I mean, it cuts both -- you know, one of the arguments in this book Freakonomics that they make is that the declining crime rate, you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well --

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

That's right, it'd be "impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible"... but you thought about it, and you think it would accomplish the goal you thought about it in regards to, and then you said it in out loud, knowing that at least some of your audience would nod and go, "Makes sense".

Why does anyone listen to or support these foul creatures?

(Cross-posted to Mandate, My Ass.)

Comments

[jedilora.livejournal.com]

WHAT.

WHAT.

First of all, OBVIOUSLY abortions don't happen without RvW. Obviously before that, women used their hangers for nothing more than hanging clothes. Obviously, the welfare costs for supporting the single mothers who would have had unwanted children when they couldn't take care of them TOTALLY outweighs the Social Security benefits that would have been gotten from these kids.

Second, this man was Secretary of EDUCATION? Are you required to have one to have that position. Ah, silly me, you don't need one if you're the PRESIDENT, why would you need one to be a CABINET member?

Augh. I need to go hit things a lot right now.

[denali1.livejournal.com]

Yes, he was Secretary of the ED from 1985 to 1988 during a time we in the Financial Aid industry call the dark ages. During his shift, one of our major guaranty agencies (It acts as an insurance agency for loans, so the lender doesn't experience a loss on defaulted debts) went out of business. We also had rampant fraud from fly-by-night schools opening up and running away with financial aid.

While a lot of this may not have personally been his fault, he was the man at the helm and as such, the decisions that allowed this behavior were done in his name. Even today, the financial aid industry is still cleaning up from his legacy.

[tpau]

he is a moron and all, but evil thought does nto evil make. even when one speaks the thought outloud... only actions make evil...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

True enough. But he was a policy maker, and he still has a lot of influence with lawmakers. It's more a know-your-enemy thing, partly a this-is-someone-they-consider-to-be-a-moral-man-even-though-he-blew-eight-million-bucks-gambling thing.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

That's sick, all right -- but how about the caller's suggestion that the reason Social Security is in trouble is because of abortion?

I suppose it ties in with a core conservative concept: anyone who actually tries will succeed, and anyone who tries hard will become wealthy; ergo, there need be no social safety net because failure indicates sloth and, thus, you deserve everything you get. Therefore, if you increase the population, even among the poor, there will be more tax revenue.

Why does anyone listen to or support these foul creatures?

The retread Social Darwinism discussed above. A sense of entitlement combined with a lack of compassion. Distaste for the poor. Outright racial bigotry. Smug "I've got mine" self-satisfaction. Unwittingly buying in to comforting lies and stereotypes. One-issue voting. Military hawkishness combined with a lack of interest in domestic policy. And, of course, fear of imaginary boogeymen who will only stop blowing up cities if our leadership is muy macho.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

That bothered me a lot, but that was the caller's suggestion. If anything, Bennett's response was, "I dont know..."

The whole thing made me ill.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

And if it's the poor people own fault they're poor, then we don't have to feel guilty about anything that happens to them, and we're off the hook for doing anything about it.

To be fair, if you take 1000 people who try hard and 1000 who don't, more of the people who try hard will end up successful. But it's by no means a level playing field. People do try and still fail, and many of the successful people got their success through nepotism, not through any effort of their own..

[knitmeapony.livejournal.com]

It's not just that he thinks it. It's that he spoke it out loud. It's reasonably clear, now, he doesn't really think without speaking. Charming, eh? *sigh*

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

What Bennett says flunks the sniff test. I'm not entirely sure about the laugh test.

So before I agree 100% with you:

Do crime statistics bear out that assertion? He seems to be claiming he's familiar with them here...

Because if they do, he's going to be able to get away with a TinkieWinkie apology, if even that. He could truthfully claim he quoted accurate statistics and that he's being bashed on the basis of political correctness. That is: being on the correct side of the math, and coming under attack because "People didn't want to hear the truth".

My gut says he's flat out wrong, but I want a source on the numbers that prove he's wrong before I flame him.

[dragonscholar.livejournal.com]

The book Freakonomics noted that abortion did correlate with decreases in crime, and the author discussed that, as abortions were used to end unwanted pregnancies, there thus were less unwanted (and abused/abandoned,etc.) children to become criminal.

The reprehensible thing with Bennet's statement is the racial element. If you aborted ANY extremely large population you'd have a decrease in crime as you'd have no new criminals and you'd denude the population of a criminal age demographic. But to focus only on one ethnic group . . .

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

*gapes at monitor*

If this is that compassionate conservatism I've heard so much about, then give us back the rabid liberals!

[filkerdave.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna have to give him a pass on that one, I think, at least based on this. Saying, "You could do 'X' but..." is a normal conversational tactic. Kind of like, "You could solve your termite infestation by burning your house to the ground, but that would be kinda stupid."

Even a conservative isn't responsible for his most wingnut listeners thinkig that something that he's explicitly denounced is a good idea.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

That's kind of how I read it.

Now, if he's wrong about burning the house successfully solving a termite problem, then he's shown why he's the biggest idiot in the history of home repair.

[fractalwolf.livejournal.com]

Heck, why not take it one step further? Abort every baby from every population group that has a crime rate greater than zero, and after a few decades I can guarantee you a zero crime rate. But somehow I think the same members of the audience would would nod and say "Makes sense" might have a problem with that once they realize that they'd be affected, too.

[sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on this one, Dave. Looks like reductio ad absurdam to me, at first and second glance...

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

I still don't know why Republicans oppose abortion. Shouldn't they be calling on those fetuses to start accepting personal responsibility like real potential Americns, and not come whining to the government to help them out? This is, after all, the party that claims dusky-hued New Orleans natives are to be blamed for being too stupid to get out of the way of a hurricane...

[ericthemage.livejournal.com]

Not all Republicans oppose abortion. You'd be surprised how many donate to Planned Parenthood.

[eibii.livejournal.com]

And if you lop off your dick, you're less likely to get an STD! Sure, it'd be painful and awful and stuff, but it'd work!

Wow, that was the most horrifying display of explosive mental IBS I've seen in awhile. Gnh. What an unorganized case that was.

[dbcooper.livejournal.com]

It's not a long stretch from "abort every black baby" to "abort every baby who isn't a white Christian."

What a theocratic piece of shit is William Bennett. Is it too late to abort him?

[poltr1]

Well, we could cut off his oxygen supply.... :)

Mighty white of him

[poltr1]

Hoo boy. Mr. Bennett really put his foot in it bigtime.

Somebody page the folks at tolerance.org (The Southern Poverty Law Center). On the red phone. Let them deal with him.

Oh yeah, we can file Mr. Bennett next to Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder in the Thorstein Veblen Memorial Dustbin of History.

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

Mr. Bennet fails on the factuals too.
I understand the stats actually say that most abortions are *not* being carried out on single young black girls, no matter what everybody's stereoypes say. And before your conservatives jump in with a statement that no, they're just going on and *having* those babies instead, that is also incorrect.
The pregnancy rates for unwed black teens are actually going down, and are lower than the rates for other parts of the population.
Last I heard some numbers on it, the majority of abortions were being done for married white women who *already have 2 -3 children.*
Well, makes sense--they're the ones who have money to pay for it, and there's very little welfare support allowed now, and in some states it's tough to get an abortion paid for in order to preserve the health of the mother.
Yes, I had one of those conversations with a pro-life person about that "abortion mill" outside their little town, when it was supposedly run strictly for-profit, and "nobody in town supported it."
Then what was keeping them in business?

Who indeed. The curious part is why the relevant group seems so curiously silent on the whole topic, considering the relative size of their population. Why aren't there a lot more people out there marching on the pro-choice ranks?

I could probably get a link/source for you on all of those, but I'm sure Planned Parenthood will have lots of stats about it.
I also suspect twistedchick will be all over this one.

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Wow. I think that may be one of the most reprehensible things ever uttered by any (alleged) human being. Right up there with Falwell blaming gays and liberals for 9/11.

It doesn't bother me that there are people who say things like this. It bothers me that they are given radio talk shows and are taken seriously by some of my fellow citizens, and that they feel perfectly safe saying things like this, that there will be no repercussions, that they don't have to worry about losing said talk show.

Icon directed at Bennett

[ladyteal.livejournal.com]

Holy fuck! What an asshole!

Okay ... let's see if I can be more eloquent now that I got that out of my system. How could he possibly think that it was okay to say something like that? Hell, I don't understand how he could even think something like that, but that's probably just my liberal/pro-choice self talking.

[devospice.livejournal.com]

And we can raise the collective IQ of the nation by aborting all the children of Republican parents. That would be a morally reprehensible thing to do, but our IQ would go up.

Joking of course.

It really amazes me sometimes what goes through people's minds and comes out their mouths.

->Later.....Spice

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

The mouth and the asshole are the two external sphincter muscles on the human body. Obviously, some people confuse what they're used for spewing.

[twistedchick]

This is the former Secretary of Education who wrote little books on morals but lost his job because he had a serious gambling habit that nobody heard about until he was neck-deep in debt.

What I would be concerned about, more than anything else, is finding out who he's acting as the mouthpiece for. He has no authority or position of his own; this has to be something he's putting out there for someone else.

[queencallipygos.livejournal.com]

On a sort-of-tangent, I read that part of the problem is that there is a MAXIMUM DOLLAR amount on the Social Security tax taken out of your paycheck. The deduction for most of us is by percentage, but there is a "...the deduction is n% unless n% is greater than $y" clause. So many of the wealthy are only having a fraction of a percent of their income going to Social Security -- and if we removed this cap, that would take care of the whole Social Security deficit easily.

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Yes, but God forbid people who have made more off of the American economic/governmental system should have to put more back in. That would be un-American.