Thoughts On Firefly

[filkertom]

Working like a nut on the album, but I've still managed to watch two of the Firefly DVDs.

I'm not gonna go into it in depth now, and I'm not gonna get awful spoilery. I will say this much, though:

While I do not think this show is as good as Babylon 5, part of the reason is that it's not the same. B5 was an epic, a sprawling tale of galactic consequences, with dozens of smaller stories woven into that grand tapestry. Religion, politics, the survival of races, love, hate, loyalty, terror, intrigue, you name it... reduced to the microcosm of a five-mile-long beacon, all alone in the night. Firefly is much more episodic, much more self-contained. While there are plot threads from show to show, and everyone has back story, the only long-term tales I've seen so far are the eclectic and hidden background of Shepherd Book, the Alliance chasing Simon and River, the budding romance between Simon and Kaylee, and whatever the hell is going on between Mal and Inara. It's a bunch of short stories, but they're much more slice-o-life than B5.

That said, I am flabbergasted by the amazing storytelling going on here. Cliches are upended regularly, the dialogue is as good as it gets, and I am in love with every single character on the show. I get surprised, genuinely surprised, a lot watching this, and the surprises are all good. And I am really looking forward to finishing the other two DVDs as soon as possible, and getting to Serenity.

Color me hooked.

[goes off whistling "The Man They Call Jayne"]

Comments

[scriviner.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean. I only started watching Firefly because I planned on watching the movie Serenity and didn't want to be completely lost, but the next thing I knew, I was totally into it.

[sylverwolfe.livejournal.com]

but the brilliance of whedon allows first-time viewers to watch the movie without having seen the series and not be totally lost. example, i'm relatively familiar with the premise of the series without having actually watched it, my boyfriend had NO clue what i was dragging him to other than it was done by the "buffy" guy. we both heartily enjoyed the movie with next to no confusion, but i could tell that the way in which background was given was done so fans of the series wouldn't be bored with playing catch-up for the uninformed.

And will the worlds fastest filker...

[bobmage.livejournal.com]

filk Firefly for frantic fen?

Re: And will the worlds fastest filker...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

No comment. But don't nap too hard at OVFF.

Re: And will the worlds fastest filker...

[lukeski.livejournal.com]

I hope he does, bit it didn't stop me from CASH-ing in on it. :)

http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/lukeski4-03.m3u

Go, Tom, go! :)

[sdorn.livejournal.com]

I adored the series, I loved the Jaynetown episode, but I guess I just don't get the drawl-500-years-from-now schtick. Clever dialog, and the Chinese swearing is fabulous, but I guess you either get the patois or you don't.

[kender42.livejournal.com]

Ah, Tom, I'm so happy for you that you are enjoying the show. It is not B5, as you said, and you hit the nail on the head as to why. For me though, although I loved B5, I could relate more to the crew of Serenity because it was more slice-of-life and I felt more "you-are-there" than I did with B5.

Of course that having been said, I have a craving to watch B5 again, too. Heh. Maybe I'll just go listen to "Five Years" again. That might do it.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Now and then, I simply have to slap certain episodes into the DVD player. Problem is, I usually have to watch the next six or seven episodes as well, and that often leads to another certain episode, and there goes the week. Can't afford to do that right now. Maybe in December.

[per_solo]

So, there's an interesting B5 question for ya...and yeah, it'll be hard to narrow it down.

Top 5 B5 eps, and why?

:-P

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Not that hard at all, actually:

• The Coming Of Shadows -- Andreas Katsulas turns in one of the finest performances ever. For progression of both character and story, nothing compares to this.
• And The Rock Cried Out, "No Hiding Place" -- except maybe this. The death of Rifa is simply amazing, and the romance between Delenn and Sheridan is just gorgeous.
• Intersections In Real Time -- gripping, vicious, nasty nasty nasty. Wonderfully written and acted.
• Into the Fire -- the big finale to the Shadow War, and it does not disappoint... especially the capper on Centauri Prime. Who'd have ever thought Londo would be willing to sacrifice himself?
• Sleeping In Light -- heartbreaking. This gets me almost as badly as does Frodo going to the Grey Havens.

Thing is, I love most of the episodes, and there's something to love in every single one. The great scenes are too numerous to catalogue.

[per_solo]

*nod* Harder for me to pick...though, two that always jump out, for my list, are...

GROPOS - You spend the whole episode getting to know the Gropos, and the last shot of them, all having been killed, just stuns you.

Confessions and Lamentations - Similar...but, I think mainly for the John/Delenn buildup, and that haunting scene of her calling him by his name for the first time. Starts the goosebumps, just thinking of that scene.

Z'Ha'Dum - Anna's Scream...the 30 seconds before and after...I was with friends while watching this, and we all were silent at that scene.

And, that brings me to a great point with Firefly, come to think...with both B5 and FF, the most fun has been sitting in groups watching the episodes...all of us having the same reactions, the same hooting, the same "OMG, they didn't just do that??"

And, if you're only at the end of Disc 2, I can't wait to hear what your thoughts are on the next 2...You've passed a couple of my favorite episodes...with at least two more favorites coming up quickly. Enjoy. :-)

"I'm sure they did, but I didn't sign that treaty. NEITHER DID EARH."

[andamaroo.livejournal.com]

I wanna play too, even though no one asked.

1 - Chrysalis - this was the first BEST episode I saw. Maybe other episodes were better later, technically speaking, but it was the is episode that told me, THIS SHOW IS NOT LIKE OTHER SHOWS. Look, things change, and big stuff really happens. Big stuff that matters. Stuff that can't be resolved two episodes into next season.

2 - The Long Twilight Struggle - The scene with Londo reluctantly calling for G'Kar's head in council chambers might be my favorite from the entire series.

3 - The Coming of Shadows - I love a good tragedy, and Londo is my favorite character from the series.

4 - Interludes and Examinations - The shadows start attacking openly and the drama just goes sky high, plus the shadows kill kosh. Can't get better than that.

5 - Dust to Dust - I always liked the idea of Londo knowing what was coming for him, but I really like the idea of G'Kar knowing it too. I love that after Dust to Dust they both know how they're going to die, but G'Kar also knows not only what Londo has done to get thigns to this point, but also why. This is where G'Kar really starts down the new path.

Top 5...

[lizard-sf.livejournal.com]

Since we're all playing...

Signs & Portents: I remember watching B5 when it first came on (missed the pilot movie) and thinking "Intelligent, pretty cool, worth my time" -- but not being *overwhelmed*.

Then came S&P. Suddenly, everything changed. It was as if the universe opened up, or maybe just my perceptions of it did. From then on, I was a fanatic.

Coming of Shadows: Yeah, what he said.

Severed Dreams: The tension, the showdown, the barely-won victory, the second wave of ships...and then Delenn's speech. The best 'cavalry over the hill' scene I can remember.

Deconstruction of Falling Stars: Because it helped cement the 'epic' nature of the series. What Our Heroes did would echo for centuries, millennia, EONS beyond their passing. Come on, Tom, don't you want monks hand-illuminating YOUR portrait centuries after a nuclear war?

The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari: Because Londo is my favorite character, and because this episode helped set him on that long and difficult road to his eventual redemption.

[liddle-oldman.livejournal.com]

I can not watch "Sleeping in Light" without crying fiercly through it.

Did you think that we had forgotten you?

I agree with Tom...

[ciarrai.livejournal.com]

on And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place but some of my other favorites are:

Passing Through Gethsemane - I love this episode for two reasons. First of all, it was an incredible example of horror done right for me. The psychological warfare was brillantly done. Secondly, the issues of faith and identity were just tackled in a mind blowing way.

Late Delivery from Avalon: I just love this episode for its playfulness and for the pathos of "Arthur"

The Deconstruction of Falling Stars: I liked seeing how the story of the Babylon project became history and then myth. It was extremely well done.

Re: I agree with Tom...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I debated all three of those. They easily make my top 10, along with "Interludes" and "War Without End" (together counting as one episode). I think my favorite scene in the entire series is when Sheridan is confronting Kosh in the hallway, with the single ballsiest line in the history of SF TV -- "You said you'd teach me how to fight legends. Well, you're a legend, too!"

Re: I agree with Tom...

[ciarrai.livejournal.com]

Yeah that and Kosh's reply "Impudent" would easily make my list of top 5 B5 moments.

Late Delivery from Avalon

[liddle-oldman.livejournal.com]

And, you know, it could have really been Arthur. The Vorlons pulled things nearly that weird out of their pockets. If they have a 400 year old serial killer handy, why not a 1000 year old monarch?

Re: I agree with Tom...

[sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com]

Late Delivery from Avalon: I just love this episode for its playfulness and for the pathos of "Arthur"

Incidentally, Michael York is now touring in Camelot. :-) Wish I could see that...

[ddrussianinja.livejournal.com]

"The hero of Canton, the man they call Jayne..."

Definitely my favorite episode. I laughed so hard...

[alymid.livejournal.com]

Just a comment on your comments on the show themeatically -

How much of that epic story would we have seen if we only had 1/2 a season to go on?

I can't predict what Joss was going to do, but one of the things that he is famous for doing with his shows is creating a Master story that is a season or more long and a monster of the week story at the same time that moves along the master story. (somewhat like we see with Veronica Mars right now) I think as you go on you will see the seeds of that arc building. Unfortunately it is my understanding that he had to abandon most of that when he went to make the movie.

[markbernstein.livejournal.com]

somewhat like we see with Veronica Mars right now

I'll just take this opportunity to note that Veronica Mars is currently the best drama on TV.

[alymid.livejournal.com]

word!

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Firefly is much more episodic, much more self-contained.

But then, how much of the epic, sprawling tale of galactic consequences had we recognized in the first half-season of B5?

Now, given the cosmology of Firefly, it's unlikely the pot would have had galactic consequences - but maybe it would have had consequences for all humankind. The movie sort of suggests that there were bigger fish to fry that we hadn't fully gotten to yet...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm not saying there's not an epic or two in there -- the cast lends itself to that sort of thing. But face it: it's a little teeny smuggling ship. No matter how important River's plotline eventually becomes, no matter that Inara is useful as a "diplomat", it's not the same structure as B5, which right out of the gate was dealing with uneasy alliances, diplomatic niceties, interstellar war, and clashing alien cultures. It's kinda like the first time we found out about the Klingons and Romulans in Star Trek -- suddenly the universe was a bigger, nastier place. B5 was immediately a "big picture" show, and all of the smaller stories took place against the backdrop of the larger tale.

I don't get the sense that the crew of Serenity is going, or is even looking, to reshape the universe. Firefly is a survivor's tale, a collection of vignettes about making it in the Big Bad Beyond. The universe is there not to be changed, but to be withstood.

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

I think Firefly is better for not being a galactic epic. Showing how individuals cope with upending change and strife made manifest by imperial powers (or the desire for same, which was certainly an Alliance hallmark) makes for a better story to me.

Also, Joss's mastery of dialogue and character far surpasses JMS's to my tastes.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Certainly his mastery of snappier dialogue. :) I consider them different kinds of storytellers.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Nice icon. :-) Wash is so my favorite character.

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

Mind If I steal that icon?

[arcane-k.livejournal.com]

Me too!

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Go right ahead; credit goes to wickedboldt. But only if I can steal yours.

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

But of course! The LJ economy runs on icon trading, it seems to me.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Icon trading. And penguins.

[ddrussianinja.livejournal.com]

Wait to pass your judgement on how important Serenity's crew is until you see the movie.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Y'know something? That, in and of itself, is kind of a spoiler. :) Be careful with them clever throwaway lines, my friend.

[ddrussianinja.livejournal.com]

If you just watch the movie trailer you get the impression that they are more important than they initially let on. Unless of course the trailer is full of spoilers too.

Movie Trailers

[baronet.livejournal.com]

Movie trailers are often more spoilerific than I'd like, although I like to watch them anyway, despite myself.

I've heard a unfounded rumor that the reason is because there is a big wig in europe who decides far more than a mere mortal man should about distribution on the continent who wants to see, in each trailer, a very short version of the movie so that he can tell whether he'll like it. If so, he should be re-educated with extreme prejudice.

[umbran.livejournal.com]

Firefly is a survivor's tale, a collection of vignettes about making it in the Big Bad Beyond. The universe is there not to be changed, but to be withstood.

Certainly, what we saw was that. And maybe it would remain that way. But if we consider that the overall plan/hope was for a series that run for 5+ years, what we saw was perhaps 10% of the whole story.

I don't peg Joss as a guy to make a show in which the charcacters withstand adversity, but make no substantial changes in the Universe. If I were forced to bet, I'd actually bet the other way - eventually, it'd become a story of changing the Universe. Sometimes, the only way to survive it to make things different...

Admittedly, that's just my guess. I suppose we'll never know. :(

Epic Friefly...

[lizard-sf.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think it was going to be 'epic' in the B5 sense -- indeed, Whedon specifically claimed he wanted to make a show about "the people history stepped on". But looking at his other series -- Buffy and Angel -- it's obvious there was a LOT of story to be told, a lot of changes. Given time, I am sure we would have seen people come and go, characters change dramatically (yet plausibly), and ultimately a saga epic in its character arcs if not in its impact on the fictional universe.

Just imagine if the last episode of 'Babylon 5' was 'Sign and Portents'. That's sort of the state FF was left in.

I will be at OVFF. I will not be sleeping.

[bardicwench.livejournal.com]

I don't get the sense that the crew of Serenity is going, or is even looking, to reshape the universe.

I'd be interested if you still hold to this view after you finish the rest of the dvds and the movie. Let me know.

[mouser.livejournal.com]

Firefly is not B5
B5 is not Star Wars
Star Wars is not Star Trek
Star Trek is not Lost in Space
Lost in space is not Forbidden Planet
Forbidden Planet is not Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon...

And that is good.

[eleri.livejournal.com]

I caught one episode of Firefly (Shindig) when it was on TV, and was muchly impressed, and then never got into it enough to watch it. (Toddlers have that effect on TV time). My first impression was of a microcosmic sort of B5. Now, if we were lucky human beings, JMS and Joss would get together and do something (heck, have Gaiman looking over their shoulders for flavor). Then we'd get the snappy dialogue, and the sweeping epic.

[smallship1.livejournal.com]

Mm. Sounds like my dream of getting Jim Steinman and Richard O'Brien to collaborate on something. Nice idea, but I bet they'd clash like whoa.

[hiddenkrypt.livejournal.com]

Glad to hear you like it. There are two points that always stand out in my mind when discussing firefly that are rarly brought up.

1. The camerawork
Everybody talks about the dialogue. But everything about firefly is tweeked and tuned to provide just the right sort of result. Hand-held camera work used like this is exceptionally rare, because it's so hard to pull it off. the only time I can remember it being used this well was in Saving Private Ryan
2. The lack of sound in space
Certainly sets it apart from other Sci-Fi. I guess it's always bugged me that you can hear that familiar whine of a tie fighter in the vaccume of space...

Your icon

[gridlore.livejournal.com]

"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

One of the best scenes ever shot. Summed up Wash so well.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

The lack of sound is indeed way cool; it was, in fact, what sold Anne on the show. I love how beautifully the ships work into the real backgrounds, looking exactly as if they belong there.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

2. The lack of sound in space
Certainly sets it apart from other Sci-Fi.

To be fair, didn't 2001 have "silent space"? I will allow that it's unusual, though, if not new.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. On TV, however, Firefly is, if not unique, extremely rare in that.

[vanye.livejournal.com]

I wonder how much of " Firefly is much more episodic, much more self-contained." would have changed had the show lasted more than 14 episodes...?