Tom Monaghan Wants A Roman Catholic Town

[filkertom]

Because God gave women breasts to attract men but not by looking at them and wombs so they could crank out babies because that's all they're good for after all.

Fucktard.

And note that he doesn't try it at home, in or anywhere near Ann Arbor. We'd run his lily-white god-fearing pizza-financed ass out of town on a rollerblade.

Comments

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

Ocean Grove, NJ (bordering Asbury Park) tried something like this when I was a kid. They wouldn't let motor vehicles into town from Saturday Midnight to Sunday Midnight (like a blue law on steroids, enforcing the Sabbath). One day the newspaper distributor sued. Judge said that it couldn't be done because the town was incorporated, and had taken funds from the state and that this law therefore consituted a violation of church and state. I may be wrong, but I think he gave them the option to unincorporate (i.e. no longer be a town) and keep their blue laws, but that would have been very stupid and they let the cars in.

Long as they don't bother anyone else, I don't think I care. I suspect Jeb Bush wants to subsidize them, and THAT I would have a problem with (assuming I lived in Florida).

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

I feel sorry for the guy. Watching him the last few years when he was running Domino's you could see that something was slipping. He did try to impose some of these things around Ann Arbor, propigating his people from the "Word of God" sect, course it failed. He had ongoing business battles with Pfizer, tring in vain to pressure them to either give up making contraception related drugs for move out of Ann Arbor... that didn't work too well.

He also owned a couple of hotel's near Domino Farms, which limited the people and groups they would do business with to those they considered worthy... that didn't work well for them either.

If he wants to toss away his money into the swamps of Florida chasing a futile dream, fine. Keeps him out of our hair.

[nelladarren.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, let's have towns for every sekt...
Wanna ritual murder go here, wanna ritual suicide go there, are a misogynistic ass live here...
That'd be like ok, if people want to voluntarily give up their civil rights by choosing to live in a town like that, but unfortunately they'll raise children who'd be forced to live without freedom - same as in any sekts.
Gah.
Alas, someone sees the similarity to Islamic fundamentalism. It would be really heartwarming, seeing how fundamentalism brings together the religions of the world - if it wouldn't suck so much.

[adamselzer.livejournal.com]

Not to mention his pizza is shite.

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

Goddamn I wish those people would secede already.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to translate "Gov. Jeb Bush, at the site's groundbreaking earlier this month, lauded the development as a new kind of town where faith and freedom will merge to create a community of like-minded citizens." from Orwellian into English.

On the one hand, if everyone who lives there is there by their own choice...on the other hand, the thought makes my skin crawl.

He's going about it all backwards. If everyone who lives there believes as he does, there would be no need to prohibit the sale of birth control or porn; no one would buy it, even if it were available.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

Not far from where I live, in an unincorporated area of the county, there's an "intentional community" founded by conservative Catholics; I believe it was set up on a cooperative/communal model, with the land held in common and individual families paying into a central fund to take care of services such as water, sewer and roads, and security operated like a gated community. Looks like any other suburban subdivision.

It's my understanding that it all worked like a charm 20 years ago, when the first young families moved in. But as their kids have grown, few of them have shown the slightest interest in sticking around, and I've heard talk that some aging residents are talking about moving out, too ... except that they can't find "faithful" to buy their houses, so some of them are beginning to agitate to change the rules. Before too many years, it will probably be just another subdivision.

My guess is that much the same will happen with Monaghan's little Utopian experiment. I give it one generation, max.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

That's very heartening.

[nagasvoice.livejournal.com]

After reading the Orchid Thief, which had some interesting things to say about Florida, I'd be surprised if this ever ended up being anything but a big empty flat spot on the coral, aka a pit where all that pizza money went. Hate to say it, but it really sounded like FL has got really good at extracting money from folks who don't live there.
The connection with Jeb Bush sounds very odd indeed, given that a lot of Bush Jr's connections are not Catholic, but the Dobson's fundie lot, and they can't be very happy about the Catholic involvement.
Strange.

[darthparadox.livejournal.com]

Naturally, I've got "Domino Death" playing in my head right now. I don't think he deserves death, but all the same the thought is tempting.

At least this plan seems to mean he's not going to try to put up his giant fucking crucifix in Ann Arbor. (Of course, IIRC that got shot down due to zoning regs anyway. I might be wrong.) Maybe he'll move his entire operation down there and stop trying to fuck things up in A2.

[batyatoon]

Naturally, I've got "Domino Death" playing in my head right now.

...I was hoping I wasn't the only one who went there.

[awfulhorrid.livejournal.com]

I heard about this a week or so ago, but I think this article had a few more details than the first one. 5000 acres translates to a square 2.8 miles on a side (7.8125 sq miles). That's roughly the same area as O'Hare Airport in Chicago ... a large college campus or a really small town.

What it sounds to me like this lunatic is really doing is attracting a lot of attention (read "contribitors") for Ave Maria University by calling it a town instead of an extended university campus. If it's legally a campus, I think they legally could forbid the sale of birth control and pornography, but the population is going to be largely transient.

Say, I wonder how Monaghan would feel about us calling the proposal a "commune" instead of a community?

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

The thing is, if the city can be self-supporting--no county, state or federal money but able to operate strictly on their own revenue--I can't think of a Constitutional reason why not. He can't force people to move there, and he can't prevent people from leaving if they change their minds. If he can't do it without government money, though, then he can't make it strictly sectarian. Period.

And I like awfulhorrid's suggestion that it be called a religious commune. :)

[kengr]

Well, like all such things, the problem is the spouses & kids who *don't* get much of a choice about living there.

[catlin.livejournal.com]

Of course there will also be problems with people thinking it is a good idea, buying a home, and five years from now when the fundamentalism gets to much for them being stuck because they can't find a buyer.

[rdmaughan.livejournal.com]

That is a self inflicted injury. Kids on the other hand would get my sympathy.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I can't think of a Constitutional reason why not.

You mean, aside from violating state law about availability of abortions, and possibly also about availability of "typically available" drugs (that case was in Massachusetts, but it's possible -- IANAL -- that Florida also has a similar law. Of course, this being Jeb Country, if discovered on the books it'd be repealed as "discriminatory" against the poor widdle pharmacists who have to violate their consciences to fulfill professional obligations.)

I am not sure what other rules he'd be violating, but if, for example, a minyan of Jews decided to move there (undercover at first) and then set up a synagogue, he'd find he had Hell to pay for refusing them permission, I suspect. And so on.

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Last point first: I have to question why anyone from any other religious groups would want to move to and hold their services in an area that's been publicly and deliberately set up as a conservative Catholic commune, other than specifically to provoke a court fight. Do they have the right to congregate there? Sure. But it's just damn rude. If I set up a town based upon and dedicated to humanism, I sure as shit wouldn't want the streets packed with preachers exercising "their right to practice their religion".

The former objection is why I qualified the whole thing with "without county, state or federal money".

[mooncat75.livejournal.com]

As long as it operates under its own revenue--ok--they should put a giant wall around their city, have their own fire departments, and when a hurricane rips through the town--NO state or federal money--they would have to fend for themselves.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

See, that's become my secession argument. You want to have your own little Republic of Gilead? Kewl. Go for it. Wall yourselves in. And when you need infrastructure maintenance, tech support, advanced medical care, energy sources, etc., you know where to find 'em, although you may have a little trouble affording 'em.

[jss]

Which brings up my favorite Canadian seccessionist joke:

Two Canadians, one from Ontario and one from Quebec, were walking along a beach when they came across something buried in the sand. They dug it out and brushed it off and voila! A genie pops out of the lamp they unburied.

"For freeing me from the lamp I shall grant you each one wish," said the genie. He turned to the Quebeçcois and asked, "What do you wish for?"

The Quebeçois replied, "I wish for an impenetrable wall surrounding all of the province of Quebec, five miles high, such that nothing and nobody can get in."

The genie, having whiled away time watching 1960s and 1970s sitcoms while trapped in the lamp, crossed his arms, blinked his eyes, wiggled his nose, and said, "Done!" Lo and behold, a five mile-high impenetrable wall surrounded the province of Quebec. The genie then turns to the Ontarian and asked, "And what do you wish for?"

The Ontarian replied, "Fill it with water."

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

Oh, that was almost a noser. Managed to get the Pepsi down in time. :)

[jss]

:-)

And another thing.

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

I grew up in a small town outside of Toledo with no less than three Catholic churches--one Polish Roman Catholic, one Slovak Roman Catholic, and one Ukrainian Byzantine Catholic--not to mention the Baptist temple up Osborn street, the United Methodist on the main drag, and another Baptist church back on Glenwood, for a city population of around 5K.

Never--never--was it suggested that we should all stay apart from one another. The priest at our church was also the head of Diocesan ecumenical development... so he held joint services with Rev. Tisdale from the Osborn Street Baptist Temple. He saw to it that us students at the parochial school were exposed to other forms of Christianity, and to other religions. But you never saw spines straighten like when Rev. Tisdale hit a bunch of old Slavic Catholics with a Southern Baptist sermon--we just weren't ready! :)

In the fall term of the sixth grade in a Catholic school, we studied the reasons for the various schisms; we studied the Byzantine rite, various types of Protestantism. We weren't taught to question Catholicism, but neither were we taught to dismiss other Christian sects out of hand. In the spring term, we studied Judaism, Islam, Zoroastrianism, Baha'i, Taoism, Buddhism--again, it was through Catholic-colored glasses, but we weren't taught to isolate ourselves from the world. That's why although I long ago left the Church, I still respect it. I know what Roman Catholicism is capable of when it engages the world rather than hides from or dictates to it.

Monaghan's plan, on the other hand, is that of a coward. I think he's so uncertain of the depth of his own faith, and/or so terrified of anything that's different from what he believes, that he needs to mummify himself in it.

[rdmaughan.livejournal.com]

I believe pharmacies can be sued for failing to carry contraceptives. This could result in the town being unable to have a pharmacy which would be a problem.

However as long as the people involved pay their own way and stay within the law, I say good luck to them. I think they are wrong but it is their right to be as wrong as they like as long as they don't expect me to cooperate.

[jenrose]

I just don't get the 65 foot tall crucifix. I know it's the least of the problems, but good god, do they even *read* the bible? Then again, I've always been baffled by the lavish church.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

I have to go beat Wes Plouff for this one...

Tom Monaghan's New Motto: "Deliver us from Evil... in Thirty Minutes or Less"

[jhayman.livejournal.com]

You have a bunch of weird people in your country, but I truly wonder where in the world they'd find enough faculty and staff to run a UNIVERSITY in that kind of environment, let alone enough students willing to attend...

Better you than us.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Presumably they'll get their staff from all the other far-right universities we've already got. BJU, Liberty, Patriot (that one is specifically for religiously-homeschooled students so they can get an education that doesn't interfere with all the propaganda they were raised with.)

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

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<<but I truly wonder where in the world they'd find enough faculty and staff to run a UNIVERSITY in that kind of environment, let alone enough students willing to attend...>>

If the existing fundie universities are any indication, they do so by having faculty and students who don't all obey all of their rules.

[singlemaltsilk.livejournal.com]

"...stores will not sell pornographic magazines, pharmacies will not carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will have no X-rated channels."

Just wondering: will Mr. Monaghan refuse to sell sausage & pepperoni pizzas on Ash Wednesday or Fridays during Lent?

[khadagan.livejournal.com]

In his own town, probably.
The rest of the country, however.....why in the world would he want to pass up all that lovely money?
Hugs -- K

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Just had a thought. If we got together and wanted to start our own town, where mundane and discouraging elements of society were not allowed (say, "No Fox news on cable TV") would Jeb Bush come to the ground breaking ceremony and say the same things?

And what would we call the town?

[hughcasey.livejournal.com]

"It will be... our land! And we shall call it... our land!"

"I shall call it... YOUR GRAVE!"

"Curse your sudden yet inevitable betrayal!"

*grin*

[batyatoon]

*facepalms*

[janet-coburn.livejournal.com]

Technically, God gave women breasts to feed babies. Men looking at them is an "occasion of sin," I think. Not my opinions, ya understand, but what my association with the perpatrators has told me.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

They already do that in little theocracies all over America. Scientologists, Hare Krishnas, Christians and other weird cults rope the weak-willed into their little communes, and then keep them brainwashed and financially dependent for as long as they could get away with it.

If this is recognized by state and local governments as a secular authority, it's a big problem--I'm remembering the Texas sheriffs who sent juvenile runaways to the "Sheltering Arms Orphan Asylum" to be flogged and buggered by clergy. If it operates outside of the government, like a big church commune, the rest of us probably have to just put up with it, and are better off ignoring it and hoping there aren't enough fools to populate the place.

[sarahtoalaska.livejournal.com]

I believe Leslie Fish had something planned like that called fan home. Actually I believe it was more of a... when the we world falls apart, we'll have a place to go thing.
You know, stuff like that Can work. The amish make it work all the time. However I believe they incurage their children to go into the world for a bit and discover what's out there. If you come back... then you are Amish. I believe they have one of the biggest return % of most of the large religions. (Been a long time sence I looked it up so I could be wrong) The differance would be that they don't keep thier children in a strangle hold. This town will only last for A little while.
I wouldn't care if they wanted nothing from the government.

[ravenclaw-eric.livejournal.com]

Fan Haven. It's in Arizona.

Don't know how far along she's gotten with it.

[poltr1]

Hey, if Monaghan wants to form his own little city-state Branch-Davidian-wannabe commune with his pizza fortune, then I say "go for it". I won't be moving there. Nor will I be drinking the Kool-Aid or eating the pizza. ;-)

[calico48103.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm... from Pizza to Koreshs... go figure.

Also, you can borrow my rollerblades anytime. Wasn't that what we used when he tried that stupid cross routine. Personally I told people he could build it.... as long as in the same scale there was a buddha, a star of david, a wiccan star, and at least three other religions symbols, all the same size and same location.

His community ban on porn will last until the first male hits adolescence, and the one on birth control will last until some woman gets pregnant for the 8th or 9th time.

But remember.... where there are cult leaders (and this IS heading fast for cult status) there will be followers. Lets just keep the guns out of his hands. And as far as the kool-aid.... Marco's pizza and Cottage Inn are just fine and dandy with me. I live in a town so small we don't even have a Dominoes.

Lets turn the property into a big planned parenthood, religious freedom, minority educationi center once it's abandoned... just in memory of old Monaghan.

BTW - ever work for him? SHIT!!!! Women - no pants... I wore and $80 psuit to work with slacks and was almost fired for not looking professional (aka wearing a skirt and panty hose). No visible tattoos - lots of makeup on people... no earrings or piercings on men - one guy had to wear a BAND-AID on his earlobe everysingle day to work to cover the whole. Women, only one earring, and no larger than a quarter. I know this man was fucked in the head back in 19... I won't sasy when... but it was pre-dominoes farms.

Florida is welcome to him. Maybe instead of a rollerblade they'll use a surfboard and strand him on a coral reef where even the sharks won't eat him. (We've head there are somethings even a pachmarah won't eat but we haven't found what that is yet... perhaps it's Tom Monaghan!)

[calico48103.livejournal.com]

And clearly I don't type well in the morning...