Jeff's Letter to Leno

[filkertom]

A must-read.

Comments

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

Now I really have to see AVENUE Q. I heard the soundtrack album and it's fun of course, but now I want to go just to support Jeff.

While I was on the web site, I also signed up for The Gay Conspiracy.
Jeff writes: "I've decided that to be Gay, from now on, one does not have to have any homosexual preferences whatsoever. If you want to be Gay, you're in. I thus offer a hearty welcome to any and all interested straight people. You are now Gay." [www.gayconspiracy.com]

This may come as a bit of a shock to all my boyfriends but they'll either get over it or I'll have to revise their status. Heh.

Straight but not Narrow, Susan

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Avenue Q is a blast. As my fellow puppeteers say, "It's Sesame Street gone horribly wrong."

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

This may come as a bit of a shock to all my boyfriends but they'll either get over it or I'll have to revise their status.

Just make them Honorary Lesbians. Most (even straight) guys are amused by that. Or at least, the ones I've known who received the title have been. :-)

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

Get Forry Ackerman to tell that story some time. Age is no object to joining the Conspiracy!

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

If I'm ever out west, or vice versa, I shall remember. I think I've heard it thirdhand, but it's good to know where to go for the source. Thanks.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Ever see the anime music video "I Want to be a Lesbian"? Definitely fun!

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

No, I haven't. Have you got a link?

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

Here you go:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_videoinfo.php?v=23949

It's a very good job of editing and lip synching, and the song is a hoot. I highly recommend watching it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

What a good letter! Thanks for the link.

I wonder what Leno may reply. Or what he may think.

[minerva-fan.livejournal.com]

Awesome letter. Will perpetuate with gleeful abandon.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Yes, but nobody is exempted from being made fun of. Not gays. Not politicians. Not the muslims. Nobody. We have the freedom of speech, not the freedom from offense.

[batyatoon]

While that's true, there's a difference between the kind of mockery that's ignorant perpetuation of stereotypes and the kind of mockery that's ... well, informed, for lack of a better term.

To take examples from my own experience, it's the difference between the kind of Jewish joke that goes "What's the only thing faster than a penny rolling down a hill?" and the kind of Jewish joke that goes "Listen, if you three don't stop talking politics, I'm leaving."

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

There are different levels of joke.

silly
humorous
poor taste
mocking
nasty
sexist/racist
hostile/attack

Trouble is, some people see any joke at their expense as automatically being the worst level - a deliberate attack. This is an absolutist view of the world where everything is either good or it's bad with nothing inbetween. In such a worldview, any joke makes fun of somebody or something, so it is ALL bad.

Jay tells jokes about everybody. He has made Italian jokes many times and laughed about his own large chin more times than I can count. That he can laugh at himself as easily as at the rest of the world shows why he's a great comedian and so popular with the public.

[magicaltrevor.livejournal.com]

"...some people see any joke at their expense as automatically being the worst level - a deliberate attack."

(Okay, gay rights are my Issue, and last week, if you didn't know, was Pride week.)

I just spent an entire week feverishly campaigning for gay rights and hearing people tearfully share their stories of hate crimes, suicides, ambushes in high school hallways, terrifying physical assault by friends and family, and a whole host of mistreatment, the likes of which most people will never know. Are you seriously suggesting gay people are just being oversensitive? Because it really pains me that you think that way.

It's okay to make jokes about people. But if your mother had just had a miscarriage, you'd know better than to make a joke at her expense. My point is that one must have a sense of propriety in regards to timing. It's okay to joke with someone who's receptive, but I don't feel the gay community is generally receptive to this sort of "other" stereotyping right now, especially as they're being disenfranchised and actively intimidated in their own country. Sure, Jay has made fun of himself, but no one has tried to kill Jay because of his large chin.

Every 5 hours and 48 minutes, a GLBT teenager kills him/herself. Could it be because they feel they don't belong? That they're a laughingstock? Where would they get that idea?

No one would be laughing if Jay featured people in blackface perpetuating offensive racial stereotypes. Why, then, is it still okay to make fun of gays? Because we live in a society that still believes GLBT people to be an aberration (especially because of the ubiquitous media portrayal of straight and GLBT people as "the norm" and "the other"). Our mainstream society, therefore, believes they are entitled to police these "aberrations" as they see fit, even if it means violence.

So if you expect me to laugh about hate crimes, to forget all the tears shed on my shoulder, you are mistaken, sir.

[anansi133.livejournal.com]

What this makes me think of, is the difference between unprotected speech (threatening to kill the president, yelling "fire!" in a movie house) and speech in poor taste. Depending on context, poor taste can be the only response that's emotionally appropriate. (I'm thinking of the time when my two brothers and I went to see The Aristocrats after cleaning up the mess left by our dad.)

I don't think there's any easy rule to follow, to tell what the intention of the comedian really is. Dave Chapelle takes some really wonderful risks in his humor, that I'm sure many find offensive. Jay Leno... The last time I saw him on TV, he was pimping for potato chips. Trying to get this guy's attention is like trying to change George W Bush's mind about invading Iraq by sending him a letter.

My perspective is, if you are going to bother taking the cuture wars seriously, go for the targets that matter most. The Tonight Show has always been for older conservatives who need less sleep, who vote like clockwork, and who don't want social security messed with. These are not the people killing gays.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

Speech that is in bad taste should not be censored, but that doesn't mean that speakers in bad taste shouldn't be censUred. I don't watch Leno, so I don't know exactly what he said. I suspect I wouldn't approve, and I'd prefer him to be more sensitive and tasteful, but I want him to say less hurtful things because he was thoughtful enough to realize that he was being hurtful, not because he was intimidated into being politically correct. The letter Tom linked to is just the kind of pressure he should receive; it's the kind of argument that will make reasonable people change their behavior and show up unreasonable people (who ignore the argument) as not worth reasonable people listening to.

[magicaltrevor.livejournal.com]

"These are not the people killing gays."

Oh, then who is? Enlighten us.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

You'd think the man who wrote a musical featuring a song called "Everyone's a Little Bit Racist" would have a better sense of humor.

[joshuwain.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I definitely see your point, but -after a while- I find it hard to laugh any more. I've been lucky in that I've only had someone accost me (verbally - not physically) for my orientation, twice in my life. But as time goes on, my exposure to "the Queer punchline" just wears on and on.

I have a great sense of humor and am constantly ripping on gay stereotypes, Wiccan stereotypes, and my own, personal foibles. As time passes, finding humor in it gets harder and harder.

I don't want to censor performers or artists but I also want them to know that I really am fed up with it when it proliferates over and over and over again.

I've seen too many people take the jokes seriously and want to ask, "when am I not going to be society's punchline?"

I may defend Leno and what he says but -at the same time- I'm getting worn down by the constant barrage.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

If Leno came out and said "I'm only joking and I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings", would you accept that?

[batyatoon]

...I'm a bad person.

Because my immediate mental response to that was "Personally, if Leno came out, I'd be a little surprised."

*hangs head in shame*

[andpuff.livejournal.com]

We can be bad people together then. It's the first thing I though too...

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

You're both very, very bad people...

Wanna hang out?

[batyatoon]

Sure!

Who are you again?

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

He won't. He never would, am I'm not saying that to suggest anything about Jay Leno as a person. NBC would never allow him to apologize that way. They'd lose Middle America as an audience if Leno were to apologize for making jokes about gays and lesbians. If he stopped making the jokes, his audience might never notice and hey, so be it. If he apologizes, though, he crystallizes the whole issue and would make his audience choose sides, as it were.

[joshuwain.livejournal.com]

Interesting question...

I had to think about my answer, and -truthfully- it comes down to "no", but if he did say "just kidding" or make some similar comment to try and alleviate the stress he'd just caused, it would effect how I view him.

To be clear, even if someone says "just kidding", the derogatory joke is still there. It still stings ... just less. But, over time, even muted stings build up to the point where they hurt just as badly as a major wound. My problem is, right now, all over the place, I'm the butt of a joke. I do my best to escape it: I've stopped reading, listening, or watching the news, I avoid people who don't have the sense to shut up when they know my life and are in my presence, and -generally- have (and I'm ashamed to admit this) become a social shut-in.

This is odd, now that I look at it, because I used to be a journalist, kept abreast of several news networks, and tried my best to be easy-going. But over the past 10 years (I came out of the closet to my closest friends 12 years ago and to myself 13-14 years ago), it's gotten toxic out there. I just don't want to deal with that any more.

I've heard some anti-gay people say, "stop rubbing it in our faces" but -every day- the anti-gay sentiment is rubbed in mine ... constantly.

So, I would feel a bit better about Mr. Leno in the case you propose, but -no- it wouldn't make me feel better about the climate he's fostering. And, in the long run, it keeps hurting over and over and over again until either I grow numb or retreat from the society that I'm supposed to be a part of.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

Hate to tell you this, dearie, but...

Suppose for a moment that no one ever told another gay joke... Ever again.

Those people who take the jokes as serious, and who use them as an excuse to look down on you? Well... They're not going to stop. They're just going to find another excuse.

Meanwhile, those people who just didn't take the jokes as serious, and realized that they were only jokes? Well... All they're going to do is hear a lot less spoken about gay people... And have a lot less to say.

And what little they DO hear and say? Well, plenty of it is going to be a LOT more harsh and cruel than any joke they may have heard.

Why?

Because there's a difference between a "joke" and an "insult".

And if you take away the jokes?
The insults are going to fill the void left behind.

[joshuwain.livejournal.com]

Ok, please, there's no call to be sarcastic and snide. I was honestly considering your point and you seem to have missed mine.

I know that those people would still be out there. I'm not unaware of this. But to say that "the words don't matter" is disingenuous: people are motivated by words, whether light-hearted or intentially mean. In some cases, the "light-hearted" stuff is the worst, because people can act cruelly and then fall back on the old chestnut, "Hey, it's only a joke!" to justify their discrimination or lack of empathy.

And, please, how many times do I have to say that I'm not advocating "taking away the jokes"? I never adovacted that ... not once. I have said that the presence of gay jokes is a real problem. Further, although I haven't said this before in this thread, there are ways to make jokes about sensitive issues that do not denigrate on a personal, petty level. And, heck, even if denigration is part-and-parcel of the joke, I can handle that too...

But the point is, it's too much. It's far too much.

Please understand, I'm not suggesting we ban this type of speech, but I am saying that making someone aware of its impact -that it's more than just "yucks"- is important. Also, when I ask, "when will I stop being the punchline to every lame-ass joke told by every third-rate comedian or jerk who thinks he's hot stuff at the water cooler?", it's me being honest. I would like it to end ... it's exhausting and wearing me down.

The impact of some of these jokes is pretty heavy and serves as yet another justification -not by the extreme people who hate me anyway- to act crappy towards a certain group of people.

So, to sum up your points:

Yes. I know. I'm not talking about the Religious Reich, here. I'm talking about those who are influenced by an avalanche of jokes in this vein. If it were scaled back in scope, I'd have very little problem with it. But right now, it's rampant.

Again, correct. The difference is in intent. An insult is intended to hurt or be degrading. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the atmosphere created by a sea of "jokes". Pile on enough ha-ha's and a person's back can still break. Right now, there's more nasty, mean, petty humor on TV and in the movies than I've ever seen, before. It's gone past being annoying and is on its way to being hurtful.

Possibly, but -again- who ever said to take away the jokes? I was very clear in my comment that I'm not out to censor or limit free speech. However, I would like to see these people made aware of something I'm not sure they know: it's getting really bad ... even the "just jokes".

I have a sense of humor. I like gay jokes. But, right now, rampant gay-mocking jokes are getting disheartening by virtue of their sheer number.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

#1. "Dearie" is a term of endearment.

#2. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I, myself, very highly doubt that the people you refer to as being "influenced" by gay jokes hadn't made up their mind about gays long, long ago.

#3. I'm afraid we're just going to have to agree to disagree. The way I see it, the prevailence of gay jokes (jokes, not insults) is actually, in a way, encouraging.

When children learn about something new, something they're unfamiliar with and never knew about before, one of their first responses is to make jokes about it. Why? Because it's a way of coping with the unfamiliar. Now, to be sure, some children never move beyond the joking stage, but a great deal of them do.

Now, I'm no expert in psychology, but I do know this much; There are very few fundamental differences between childhood and adulthood.

The fact is, society is starting to wake up and acknowledge something that, for the most part, they were ignorant and silent about before. Gays are out there, they are part of society, and they're not going anywhere. Now, this is, overall, a good thing, but it is still a stressful situation for a lot of people. So, naturaly, people are going to tell jokes to cope with that stress... But only for now.

This is just a transitional period. It won't last forever. And all in all, I've got a pretty good feeling about the future.

[magicaltrevor.livejournal.com]

So, what would you suggest? Should we not write letters? Should everyone laugh at gay men and women? Do we not have the right to be offended? What line does someone have to cross before it becomes "too"? When does a "joke" become a threat? Until you can answer all these questions, perhaps it's better to let GLBT people and their allies deal with our own issues in our own way. A show of solidarity, tolerance, and support, even from individual people, goes a long way. Defending Leno's jokes does absolutely nothing for GLBT people.

You may have a good feeling for the future, but it's not here yet. People like us are trying to build it so that people like you can sit back in self-satisfied detachment in a few decades, saying "See? I told you it'd be okay."

Tolerating intolerance does not foster more tolerance.

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

Well, I guess you and I just have a different opinion on what constitutes "intolerance".

To me, intolerance is saying "this is wrong", not "this is funny".

[magicaltrevor.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I don't really like having strangers use "terms of endearment" to me, either. Since I am a woman, I have heard it in entirely too many contexts wherein the speaker wishes to intimidate or demean me, or even just to condescend to me. So I try to use terms of endearment only in contexts in which the person I'm speaking to literally endears him/herself to me, such as with my partner. Arguments are not really an endearing situation, so it did come off as being sarcastic or condescending. Not to be nitpicky, but just, yknow, FYI. Having moved from the north (where I remember "sweetie" and the like being used only to children) to the south (where EVERYONE seems to use them to EVERYONE ELSE), I've found that it's sort of a cultural snafu a lot of people don't even realise they're creating.

[ddrussianinja.livejournal.com]

I actually got to meet one of the authors of Avenue Q (Jeff Marx) a week or so ago. He's brilliant. I also got his autograph on a page of the fakebook he brought ("I'm Not Wearing Underwear Today"). He made fun of himself being gay multiple times, but not in a negative light like Jay Leno. He mostly made fun of himself for closeting up when he was so obviously gay. Like Whitty said, there are funny aspects of being gay, but Leno seems oblivious to them. Then again, Jay Leno hasn't been funny for decades. He doesn't hold a candle to Conan O'Brien, and even he isn't THAT funny.

Jeff wrote me back...

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

This has become so global, I feel I'm being called on to answer for a letter
that wasn't meant to be so widely seen and discussed when I wrote it!

I had a good talk with Jay yesterday -- once I can figure out how to get
ahold of my web page HTML without my web editor (I'm in London) I'm going to
post a final, Garbo-in-hiding-esque response.

He didn't need to apologize. I wasn't asking for that, and he didn't, and
that was fine.

Humor. Is. Tough.

Thanks for writing --

Best
Jeff

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

I don't bother writing letters to the "God Hates Fags" people, or Donald Wildmon, or the Pope. But I think you can do better.

Right there is where he got me. I understood before that that he was concerned about stereotyping as opposed to humor, and didn't want to restrict speech per se. But when he says, essentially, "you're good enough that you ought to get past the easy jokes", he tells me that he's making a serious appeal.

Go, Jeff!