Courage and Cowardice

[filkertom]

I'm gonna put my foot in it here.

Just saw the trailer for Oliver Stone's World Trade Center. It's billed as "a true story of courage and survival". Fine. Looks very good, actually.

But it got me thinking. And I've seen thoughts similar to this expressed in the blogosphere lately, but I just have the need to put mine here.

The real tragedy of 9/11 is how easily it allowed small, selfish men to make cowards of us.

This film celebrates the courage of the NYPD and FDNY. And we, as a nation, will watch it and beat our collective chest and say Yeah, thass right. That's America.

Except it isn't any more.

Those twenty guys on those planes scared the hell out of us, by showing how vulnerable we are to desperate and clever men. And then our own government has spent the following five years keeping us scared, to distract us from the evil they've done to the country.

Our Constitution is being savaged; our military is stretched to the breaking point; our treasury is being emptied; our rights are being eroded; our population is being segregated and downgraded and categorized.

And we're still quite, quite vulnerable to desperate and clever men.

I ask, in all seriousness: Do you really feel safer than you did Sept. 12, 2001? And, if you do, do you feel the cost has been worth it? Do you feel we, as a nation, are doing all right? Is this, the path we're on now, what America is all about?

Discuss.

Comments

[umbran.livejournal.com]

I felt a touch safer after Afghanistan. Since then, I've not felt any safety increases.

The odd thing is, I'm of the opinion that the Administration really does do all the evil for the purpose of trying to make us more safe. I just think they are 1)incompetent and 2)too willing to sacrifice everything else to get that safety.

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

Do you really feel safer than you did Sept. 12, 2001?

Of course not. Nor am I actually safer than I was.

I have to laugh (in a "good lords, no" kind of way, not in a "haha" way) at people who actually believe our government is making us safe from terrorism. You can't BE safe from terrorism. Fanatics exist, always have, and will continue to do so. And there is no protection against a clever fanatic.

[devospice.livejournal.com]

I feel much more vulnerable now than I did on September 12th. On September 12th Iran, IRAN, held a candlelight vigil for the United States. Now they may or may not be developing nuclear weapons and we may or may not be planning to invade them.

At the time I thought the world would unite around us and we'd take a stand against the terrorist and wipe them out. And things started off going in that direction. Then it all kind of veered off to the right.

Let's see... the War On Terr'r... where do we stand? What have we accomplished? Well the Taliban are no longer in control of Afghanistan. That's good. They're still there and they're still fighting, but at least they're not in control and most if not all of the terrorist training camps have been destroyed.

I feel safer flying, knowing that the cockpit doors lock and there are US Marshals (or something to that effect) on flights now for security. So I don't see more planes being hijacked any time soon.

But Osama Bin Laden is still out there, alive and well, leading al Qaeda, probably planning more attacks. That's bad. In fact, now we have TWO al Qaedas! We now have Al Qaeda In Iraq to deal with too!

Oh yeah, Iraq. What did that accomplish again? Well Sadam's no longer a threat... but was he ever? I doubt it. Thousands are dead and Iraq is total mess. But hey, they can vote now! So it's all worth it, right? Hardly.

I am MUCH more afraid now than I was on September 12th. Because I know now that I can't place a phone call without the NSA knowing about it. I know now that if I say the wrong thing to the wrong person I can be "detained" indefinitely without ever being charged and without ever speaking to a lawyer. And I'll probably be tortured while I'm there. I'm afraid because we have a man with the IQ of a slug and the ego of a god running the country.

I know that it's probably only a matter of time before we start seeing roadside bombs and suicide backpackers in this country.

But hey, at least those damn Mexicans will have a harder time getting into this country now that the National Guard are going to be patrolling the border.

web site banner

[the-blue-fenix.livejournal.com]

I forget where it was, a political site obviously. They had a bumper-sticker-shaped banner on their page with Osama's face and the caption "I'm still free. How about you?"

I hate it when people say nasty things like that and I can't refute it because it happens to be true....

[sydb42.livejournal.com]

No, I don't feel any safer. If anything, I feel *less* safe because now I have to worry about my government *and* terrorists (not that I've ever lost a lot of sleep thinking about terrorists, not counting the week or two after 9/11/01). I don't know if the government's motives are sinister or they are simply stupid but either way, the way we've been going since 9/11/01 is frightening.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

I feel safer from foreign threats, but I'm MUCH more afraid of the Government.

[avt-tor.livejournal.com]

What foreign threats do you feel safer from? Iranian nuclear weapons? Iraqi terrorists? Libyan arms dealers? Palestinian suicide bombers?

Dubya took the world's sympathy and support after 9/11/01 and flushed it all down the drain after 3/19/03. Many people hate Americans that didn't used to, and many new enemies have opportunities to kill Americans that they didn't used to.

[warinbear.livejournal.com]

Do you really feel safer than you did Sept. 12, 2001? And, if you do, do you feel the cost has been worth it? Do you feel we, as a nation, are doing all right? Is this, the path we're on now, what America is all about?

I'll take those in the same order.

No.

Not applicable.

It depends on which area. As a couple -f examples -- in terms of world opinion, hell no; in terms of economy, yes, though we could be better.

Apparently. I don't think it's what we should be all about, but that's not the same question.

(As a side note, Tom, not all of your readership in from the USA; it's not clear if you're intending to ask these questions of other nations' residents or just those of the country we share.)

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Technically, the questions would be for US readers; but I'm also very interested in the perspectives of others around the world -- which, I think, puts ahead of the lumbering rhino laughingly called our State Dept. I feel the entire world has been made less safe by this criminal administration, although that lack of safety may manifest in different ways in different places.

[pyrephox.livejournal.com]

I don't feel safer. I didn't feel particularly /less/ safe after 9/11. No less safe than I did after Oklahoma City, or Columbine. There will always exist fanatics and lunatics, and if someone is willing to kill themselves to kill you, then there's very little you can do to dissuade them. Which is not to say that I don't support reasonable, sane precautions to catch them before they can get in a position where it's an issue.

But I think that, at every turn, this administration has gone in the wrong direction, squandered the tremendous public support and international sympathy that we had, and created enemies out of people who were, if not our friends, at least neutral on the subject of us.

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

Oliver feckin' Stone. I wouldn't believe his turn on "nonfiction" if he told me the sky was blue. Bets, Al-Qaeda disavows his story? [grim grin]

We were never safe. 9/11 just blew away another layer of our national denial, is all.

Yeah, I have gotten cynical in my old age. Sometimes I envy my friends who died on or before 9/11 who didn't have to live in this rotten 21st Century we've been handed. :'-(

[nomaddervish.livejournal.com]

Aye, that's my latest revelation in all this... There are so many people who claim that concern for liberty is "pre-9/11 thinking" and that "the world changed on 9/11" and so forth.

Bullshit.

The terrorist attacks on that day didn't change the world. They didn't change a damn thing aside from giving the US government a blank check for whatever power it wanted to grab - and that was done by the American citizens, not the terrorists.

What the attacks did change was people's perception of the world, which is a whole 'nother beast from changing the actual world. (Unless you're a solipsist, in which case you may want to apologize to yourself for my incorrect statement.)

As for Tom's original questions, yes, I do believe that I, personally, am much safer today than I was at any point in September of 2001. But that's entirely due to the woman I was dating at the time, who is no longer a part of my life, rather than anything remotely related to terrorism.

[annearchy.livejournal.com]

Do you really feel safer than you did Sept. 12, 2001? And, if you do, do you feel the cost has been worth it? Do you feel we, as a nation, are doing all right? Is this, the path we're on now, what America is all about?

No, no, no, and no. Arrgh.

[ashnistrike.livejournal.com]

What interests me is the way different parts of the country reacted. I was on Long Island at the time. On 9/11, we were scared and upset. We didn't know if there would be more attacks; we didn't know if our friends and family were all right. By 9/12, we were angry, and we were supporting each other, and we were too busy trying to deal with what had actually happened to concern ourselves with amorphous fears. We were way too busy to do anything that wasn't going to actually save people or increase safety.

Elsewhere in the country, after the initial panic, I think a lot of people felt afraid because it made them feel important. Is a group that went after the WTC and the Pentagon really going to blow up the town hall in Smallville? No, of course not. But the folks in Smallville want to feel like a part of the America that "they" hate, so up goes the security. It doesn't matter if it would actually ever prevent an attack, because that's not the point. Then they start doing the same thing with national security... Note how heavily New York City went against Bush. They noticed that the guy who attacked them was still at large, and that they weren't actually safer, because for them the attack had been real rather than symbolic.

[batyatoon]

As a resident of New York, can I just say HELL YEAH to that last.

[batyatoon]

Do you really feel safer than you did Sept. 12, 2001?

I'm not sure that's even the right question to ask. How safe or unsafe I feel right now doesn't necessarily reflect how safe or unsafe I actually am; how safe or unsafe I felt on Sept. 12, 2001, was even less likely to reflect the reality. And that's not even taking into account what I knew/know about my situation, and how much of it is false; that's just talking about the irrationality of emotion.

Do I think I'm safer now than I thought I was then? Not really, no -- and that's partly because so many of the intrusive safety measures I've been noticing don't really seem to me like they'll be effective.

I lost all doubt about the random-searches-of-bags-on-the-subway, for instance, the day I walked past the cops carrying a portable succah. In a tote bag big enough (and the right shape) to hold a frickin' ROCKET LAUNCHER. And was not stopped and searched. Or even looked at twice.

There's no point in arguing about whether the cost is worth it when it doesn't look like we're even getting what we're paying for.

[aylinn.livejournal.com]

exactly. I routinely travel with a metal cane, a stuffed backpack and a briefcase.

I've been accused of carrying enough stuff in that configuration to be able to re-create entire civilizations on deserted atolls.

I've dutifully had my bags x-rayed, searched & wanded. I think I provide more amusement for the security guards than anything else.

a laptop, beading supplies & a leatherman's tool make me a really dangerous customer.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

"We have nothing to fear but fear itself."

Where, oh where, are those kinds of Democrats?

[aylinn.livejournal.com]

*sees the soapbox coming & doesn't even try to avoid it.*

It's very much a point of perspective as ashnistrike pointed out. I'm from LI and work in DC. My house is on the flight path into DC. So I got 9/11 from three different directions. Then I got the anthrax scare. Then I got the DC sniper. Plus I work in "secure" areas.

So have I noticed an increase in security? Kind of. Let's say I've noticed things that I used to have to only go through going into and out of work occurring in other places where they didn't used to occur. I saw the trashcans being taken out of the metro then after the trash got too bad I saw new heavy duty ones coming back in. The metro now tells you to watch out for packages over the pa. practically every other stop.

Do I feel safer? NO. Why? because I'm a game designer/writer. It's my job to figure out scenarios. If a reasonably half-educated (I never finished college) person with a decent high-speed connection and a twisted imagination can work out a scenario to cripple a city just for mental exercise - WHAT can someone who has a real MOTIVE & the same assets come up with?

The problem isn't that small, selfish men made cowards of us after 9/11. It's that we allowed them to make IDIOTS out of us long before that. People are sheep. See Men in Black. "One person is smart. People are dumb." Don't believe me? Take a look back at the 50's. There's a reason George Clooney brought out "Good Night & Good Luck". Not to mention a reason why Arthur Miller wrote "The Crucible" during that outbreak of terror.

We have no reason to think. The rest of the world does. Until that changes (and sadly it won't change soon if it does change) we're staying in this handbasket.

(oh, and I do think. and vote. and will keep doing so, thank you.)

*jumps off of the soapbox - for now*

[unclelumpy.livejournal.com]

To paraphrase Mick Foley...

I think we're going to live a lot longer.
But we're going to have a lot less to live for.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

If a non-American is allowed to comment....

I think the world is worse off everywhere, because 9/11 has made it possible for governments to edge towards being police states, and to excuse their own atrocities in the name of counter-terrorism.

I think its a new sort of cold war.

[beldar.livejournal.com]

In general, I feel as safe as I did on Sept. 10, 2001 (moreso in one way, I'm employed now). I was a little wary of the govmint already at that time due to the sham War on Drugs and how a future Prez who thought with the brain on his shoulders (as opposed to crotch level) could take evil advantage of the liberties Clinton made possible (on top of what past executives got away with).

Since then, it seems the future is now. The rich C-student playboy (put in office partly because he ran against other rich C-student playboys) may ignorantly think he actually is saving the world. But those around him are just weilding and concentrating power.

So for long run prospects, I'm feeling less safe, and not from any hater in a cave overseas.

[awfulhorrid.livejournal.com]

I feel much less safe and it has nothing to do with terrorists. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: The Governement, rather it's the current administration or any other, has a much better opportunity to harm us than any other group in the world ... and many of us will go right along with that harm, smiling and "showing support" the whole damn way, right into the prison camps.

[twfarlan.livejournal.com]

Safer? Safer than I felt before 9/11/2001? Not in the least bit, "safer." Now, understand that I didn't think we were secure from attack on our own soil before 9/11. It was really only a matter of time. The method and scale of the attack was fairly ingenious, but some foreign terrorist agency with a grudge against the US was going to make a strike eventually. Considering things like Oklahoma City were the work of American nationals really doesn't make a difference; it's a terrorist attack on our soil, but if we're going to say there's a difference, then fine for discussion's sake.

Now, not only do I still know we're vulnerable, we have a government that has alienated people abroad AND at home more than ever before the attack. We had the sympathy of the world after 9/11. As was said, there were people in Iran, North Korea, Libya, everywhere suffering with us and praying for us, and these were people who live with events like that every damn week. They KNOW what it feels like, and they felt bad for us. How do they feel now? The US is more hated than ever in the international community. The opportunistic assholes in the Executive Branch have not just squandered that sympathy, they've turned it into a rallying cry for those who already hated us. "See? See what America did when they were hurt? Did they change, did they rethink their positions? No, they used it as an excuse to attack people who had nothing to do with 9/11, all for oil!"

For that matter, this government had the chance to fulfill a campaign promise, to unite the country in drive and spirit. Now? We're more divided than we've been in decades prior, politically, religiously, and socially. More Americans are saying things like "revolution," more Americans are talking about resisting law enforcement, there's more hatred for our troops than since the Vietnam era, and gods help you if you belonged to a group the government already didn't like now that they feel emboldened by and mandated to root out dissention under the guise of "wartime patriotism."

But Tom, I think you're wrong about one thing. These tiny little monkeys in the Executive and robbing the country in the Legislature? They are NOT America. They do not represent America's spirit. The people on United 93? The NYPD and FDNY? They are America. We are brave and bold and do not give up. We are afraid... and go on struggling anyway. Look at NYC during and after the attack. NYC did NOT give up. NYC did not cower in fear. People helped one another, looked at the world and said, "Is that all you've got? Let us show you what a real attack looks like." So no, I don't think we are defined as a nation by the Commander's-a-Chimp or his cronies.

[sdelmonte]

I feel a tiny bit safer. But only because, rather paradoxically, I live on the only place in America where the police force has what is considered a to-notch counter-terrorism program in place. I trust the mayor and police, even if I don't trust the president and his lot. While odds are, sadly, that NYC remains a target, the government here truly takes the threat very seriously.

Am I ACTUALLY safer? Hell if I know. The terrorists still scare the crap out of me, but we really, really don't know what they are actually able to do at this point. Or how many of them there are. Or who is actually running the show. Or whether the Moslems of the world are really that radicalized. (The fact that no one knows is part of why it's so damn scary.)

Is it worth the cost? I am more willing than most left-wingers to trade some liberties for security. It's not a great bargain, but it's one that people in places like Israel and England have made for a long time. And I supported the war in Afghanistan completely.

Problem is, I think that the Bush people don't have a clue as to what really works, and what doesn't. Add in their obsession with Iraq, which has destabilized the region and created a new generation of terrorists, and their warmongering (which might make a very bad situation in Iran much worse), and it's clear that this country is lost.

Is this what America's about? Of course not. But we have to admit the terrorist threat (as well as threats from rogue nations and possibly even Russia and China) is likely to be around for a long time to come, and that we as a nation will have to change how we do things and how we think of ourselves.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Am I ACTUALLY safer? Hell if I know. The terrorists still scare the crap out of me, but we really, really don't know what they are actually able to do at this point. Or how many of them there are. Or who is actually running the show. Or whether the Moslems of the world are really that radicalized. (The fact that no one knows is part of why it's so damn scary.)

This is why I have always been an advocate of actually researching, and perhaps (gasp!) talking to, the terrorists. In no way is it acceptance or support of what they've done; they've killed people, and that's simply not justifiable. But vast numbers of the neocons and dittoheads and whomever else have it in their alleged minds that even attempting to consider the terrorists' point of view is in some way sympathizing with them, when the actual (and bluntly obvious) goal is in fact determining their motives.

Finding out their grievances may or may not suggest a solution, or part of a solution, to the problem. Not finding out their grievances makes it very easy to keep saying stupid things like "the terrorists hate freedom". They want freedom; we just don't know what flavor.

[omimouse.livejournal.com]

My viewpoint on many things has long been that if one is willing to pay the price, one can do damn near anything. That price may be nothing more than time invested, or it can be steggering, either in terms of money or lives.

I'm both a GM and a gamer. I agree with aylinn on this one: If I can come up with a few dozen ways to cripple a city, you can be damn well certain that someone with a lot more invested in actually doing it has already come up with at least a dozen more.

There is no such thing as 'completely secure'. Middle America is selling our rights in a fit of panic, and they're selling them in order to buy something that doesn't exist.

So, do I feel safer? No. I feel a whole hell of a lot more scared, and worried. Not of a terrorist, but of my own government.

[sarahtoalaska.livejournal.com]

Safer... ? Certainly not. Before 9/11 I knew there was always a chance for terrorism, there was always a chance of being attacked on our soil. In my mind that hasn't changed a lot. If someone wants to attack us, they will find a way. Ban whatever you want, take away America's freedoms... those things can been gotten around. I believe the reason so many Americans feel 'unsafe' now is because they never thought it could happen to us. We can never be attacked here.
I don't think the threat of 'terrorism' is a good reason to take away my freedoms. I feel a heck of a lot less safe now, because I know that my 'rights' as an American are no longer there. Oh sure, that's fine for your everyday American, it doesn't effect them. They don't have to worry about someone finding out they have certain reading and research material, they don't have to worry that their choosen religion might make them look bad.
What pisses me off, almost more than anything else, is the lie. We have freedom of speech, of religion. We have the right to defend ourselves. We were taught that in school. It's all a lie. I would be less annoyed if they would just come out and say... "Yeah, not any more. This is the new tighter America" At least then you would know where you stood.
Anyone else have any ideas where they might move to should things keep going the way they are?

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

No, I don't feel safer. I didn't feel particularly unsafe before, and I don't feel particularly unsafe now.

I'm going to put my foot in it as well and ask how were these hijackers able to convince all the people on the planes to go along with this in the first place? They had box cutters. Why didn't someone - say for example someone in a nice leather jacket that could provide some protection - try and stop the hijackers?

Yes, 9/11 was the fault of the men who flew the planes into the WTC and the Pentagon. But I have to ask: how did we let this happen?

[devospice.livejournal.com]

Actually that's been brought up. Up until then very few people had ever considered the posibility that someone who hijacks a commercial plane may want to crash it. All the previous hijackings were because the hijackers wanted to get away from something or get to something. They were criminals on the run, or political refugees or something to that effect and they were trying to save their own lives, not end it.

I'm sure the people on the plane figured that the pilot would take the hijackers where they wanted to go, land, and be done with it. It'd be an inconvenience at worst. I don't think any of them imagined they'd be intentionally crashing into a building. If they knew that I'm sure they would have tried to stop it.

Even the people on United 93 didn't do anything until they learned what happened to the other planes.

safety

[nezmaster.livejournal.com]

I feel less safe than ever. September 12th might not be an accurate guage for me, I stayed in a "well it can't happen here mantality' anyway. I'd say OK made me feel more vulnerable than NY, because I don't think churchill downs is a terrorist target really. A fantatical redneck is another matter.

I felt few months later at a big festival in louisville. But that's not the point.

Has the cost of feeling less safe been worth it? obviously not.

Are we as a nation doing all right? All wrong is more like it. We've pissed off everyone in the world, we're crippling ourselves economically. (If the eurodollar thing passes we are so screwed) We have very few allies left, tons of enemies who are madder at us than ever before, we have eroded our rights as americans, we have virtually destroyed democracy with diebold machines, and now jeb bush is considering becoming dictator. We are less free than many european countries, and it's only getting worse. I can't think of a single thing America is doing right right now...

Having more enemies is what makes me feel less safe. And absolutely NOTHING the governement has done will actually prevent more attacks, only encourage them.

[popefelix.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, the rest of the questions.

Do you feel we, as a nation, are doing all right?

No, but I have hope that we'll do better. I have hope that we will properly clean up the mess we made in Iraq, and that we will not invade Iran. I have hope that we will stop invading sovreign nations without provocation.

Is this, the path we're on now, what America is all about?

I never have known what America was all about to begin with.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I've always thought this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms) was pretty close.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Well...none out of four isn't bad. In fact, in King George the Turd's America, it's pretty good.

And to think that, after November 2000, I was just upset because I thought Bush would hurt the economy and pollute our air and water. I just had no imagination at all...

My failure at prognostication

[arakasi1.livejournal.com]

I actually have witnesses that heard me say right after Bush the Lesser was appointed: "Hey, this country survived 8 years of Reagan, it can survive this"

If I knew then what I know now.....