It's The End Of The World As We Know It

[filkertom]

I completely agree with George Will.

Comments

[suburbfabulous.livejournal.com]

Sweet Monkey Love! I'm a values voter!

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Actually the implicit logic behind this is rather insidously evil...

By calling themselves values voters they are implying;
a] that the reasons they vote for are the only valuable ones,
b] other votes have no value.
c] those that don't vote as they do have no values.

Doesn't take a genius to work out where they are going with that.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

"Value Voters" brought to you by the same people who brought you "Moral Majority"

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Pretty much...

Def: "Moral majority".
A minority group who wish to imply that they:
a] have more [or better] morals than non-group members
b] are, or represent, a majority.

See "Christian fundimentalists".

[kengr]

See "Bolsheviks". Look up the meaning of the word in Russian. As I recall, it's the same sort of trick as "moral majority".

[nomaddervish.livejournal.com]

"Majority faction", according to wikipedia.

[kengr]

And they weren't a majority.

[archanglrobriel.livejournal.com]

*nods* And that's exactly as they believe. I once had a friend (well actually I had several, as I was enmeshed in the Fundamentalist community albeit as an outsider) who screamed at me after a brief debate, that one could not simultaneously be a Christian and vote Democrat. Upon continuing this debate, it became abundantly clear to me that:
Her reasons for voting were the only valuable ones.
My vote and those of anyone in opposition to her reasons for voting/beliefs were not just valueless, but of the Devil.
And therefore I was evil and had no values.

Different Opinion Than Me = Evil, possibly demonic, certainly anti-Will Of God. What's horrifing here in terms of this mindset and the political sphere is that one does not negotiate, reason with, or listen to the points made by the Forces of Evil, one simply battles them until they are utterly eradicated. This is the kind of "take no prisoners" approach I'm seeing more and more with these people.

[siliconshaman.livejournal.com]

Exactly true, and the fact that it's these people who are slowly gaining ascendency in politics is what'll probably be the "end of the world as we know it"...
I don't know what kind of society will come after that, and I have no wish to find out.

[mathmuffin.livejournal.com]

archanglrobriel said,
I once had a friend ... who screamed at me after a brief debate, that one could not simultaneously be a Christian and vote Democrat.

It is sad that these Conservative Christians confuse the Republican lip service to Christianity with real doctrine. My impulse is to continue the debate to educate them about their own faith. But I presume the debate is long over.

I will add one harsh comment, though: anyone who follows a take-no-prisoners approach to people who oppose Christian beliefs has totally lost sight of Christianity. Christianity is about reaching out to the fallen, the lost, and the needy (and reaching out to the sure, the proud, and the successful because on some level they are needy too). Jesus talked of turning the other check and walking the extra mile. He hung around with sinners and thieves, despite the damage to his reputation, because those people needed him.

Erin Schram

[mathmuffin.livejournal.com]

George Will said,
It is odd that some conservatives are eager to promote the semantic vanity of the phrase "values voters." And it is odder still that the media are cooperating with those conservatives.

It is the irresistible power of alliteration!

Erin Schram

[devospice.livejournal.com]

We need to come up with an alternative, like "Intelligent Voter", or "Patriotic Voter" or something like that to turn it around on them. :)

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Patriotic Voter ought to work, considering that so many of the liberal votes go for little founding concepts like "liberty and justice for all".

[phaedress.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that these conservatives are acting as if they just discovered 'values'. Kind of like someone running around yelling:

"Hey, guys! There's *air* all around us! And you can *breathe* it! No, really, all the time! And I think people who don't breathe are dumb!"

Could explain their behaviour.

[batyatoon]

There are certain words and phrases that only get used when the concept they express is in some way missing from the larger context. Or, to put it another way: if you really have it, if it's a fundamental part of your outlook on life, you don't spend a lot of time talking about it.

"Cultural heritage," that's my favorite. "Employee appreciation," that's another.

I think "values" probably falls into the same category.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

People need to ask the Robertson types if it is even ethically possible to be both a "values voter" and a Republican.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

This is my problem with George Will. Every so often, I agree with him, so I can't just completely ignore what he says.

In other news, my oldies station of choice played "It's The End Of The World As We Know It" on Monday, and a little part of my soul cried.

[partiallyclips.livejournal.com]

Actually, as I have been reading his column the last year or so (starting around the time he eviscerated the Harriet Miers nomination), I'd have to say I agree with George Will's position around half the time. When I don't agree, it's not because he's being unfair or stupid or irrational like most of the voices on the Right, it's because he and I have differing values. That, to me, is honest debate.

It's nice that some on the Right still can do that, but of course, the ones that can are all rationally self-interested Money Republicans, rather than batshit crazy Jesus Republicans. This column throws that division into sharp relief once again.

[avt-tor.livejournal.com]

Will is very old school. Back in the old days, liberals and conservatives had opinions based on logic and (differing) axioms. In the '90s, religious conservatives took over the Republican party and purged most of the people who dared to use reason.

As a moderate myself, I used to say that intelligent liberals had more in common with intelligent conservatives than either had with the political grassroots in various parties. Hasn't been much opportunity to make this observation in recent years, though.

[avt-tor.livejournal.com]

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. When I read Will's editorial, I thought to myself, "How far has the political spectrum skewed to the right to make George Will look like a moderate?"

[signy1.livejournal.com]

Personally, I'm just sick of the term 'values' (or, alternatively, 'morals') being defined solely by what rights we can take away from whom.

Having 'values' seems to mean that a woman has no control over her reproductive system and ought not to work outside the house. It also seems to mean that gays oughtn't to be allowed to marry, adopt children, teach, or be involved in any organization except possibly the drama club. Occasionally it means that science is a bad word and children oughtn't to be exposed to ideas less than a thousand years old.

I'm a student of history. I've read a lot of books that imply that there was a time when America 'valued' freedom and equality. Maybe those books were written by liberals. Or Martians.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

My thesis for awhile has been that these people are, by and large, following rules of conduct thought up three thousand years ago by illiterate goat-herders.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

No, they *think* they're following rules of conduct thought up and relevant to illiterate goat-herders 3000 years ago, but in reality, the rules have been made up, by careful selection, creative mistranslation, and simply lying about what the Bible says, through the history since then by a succession of people who want to control other people's lives and whose principle moral agenda is that any form of pleasure they themselves don't openly partake of is evil.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

Word.

And they've similarly co-opted the word "family."

[beldar.livejournal.com]

I find that since Will, and Bill Buckley for that matter, are intelligent and value that intelligence that they will say things and come to conclusions that I will agree with. And if I don't agree, at least they have made plain their position.
We need more conservatives like Will, who will not jump into the empty sloganeering and linguistic gymnastics, but will give a thoughtful position we can engage intelligently.

Fortunately Will is good enough to shoot down BS when he sees it, even if it's from his political allies. Note he and Buckley have written columns criticizing the War on Drugs.

And while we're reclaiming the word "values"

[beldar.livejournal.com]

Could we also get back the word "family" so that it's not family=Christian?
As in "family values," or when I see the word used as part of some "family" event that's really a church rally. There's even a Christian music radio station in my town that promotes itself as family-friendly while downplaying the religious aspect.

[ashnistrike.livejournal.com]

I agree with him, too, in this case. But "value equality indiscriminately"? Damn straight I do!

I also hope he's right about the '08 election being McCain vs. Clinton. I have serious problems with both of them, but could live with either of them. Which means that it won't happen, of course.

[tigertoy.livejournal.com]

I don't always agree with George Will, but even when I disagree with him he almost always has a legitimate point, and he's actually right a lot of the time. He's much saner than most commentators on either side of the political debate. I consider him a credit to my high school Alma Mater.