X-MEN 3: THE LAST STAND Spoiler Thread
May. 29th, 2006 04:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
filkertomAnne and I saw it, and we both thought it was pretty good. Especially considering how much they crammed into it. (If you have not seen the first two movies, don't bother until you do -- just as with The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, they're not gonna hold your hand.) A few lines here and there jangled -- for instance, I can think of several different ways to explain Jean being Phoenix than the one they used -- and some characters, most notably Mystique, got pretty badly shafted. But they didn't pull punches; they weren't worrying so much about the X-Men being Costumed Heroes as they were about showing this really was a war between Homo Sapiens and Homo Superior.
There was a surprising amount of character work, as well -- often economical to the point of streamlined, but damn if it didn't work anyway. The two love triangles were drawn with very clean, simple lines and situations, and yet they, along with the acting (particularly, again, Hugh Jackman and Anna Paquin) made it all work. Shawn Ashmore and Ellen Page as Bobbie Drake and Kitty Pride stepped up and did great. In fact, let's get that aspect out of the way: There really isn't a bad performance here, and there are many good ones. Halle Berry gets something to work with and makes it count; Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen are, well, Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen.
Many, many touches, many cool moments. The ice-skating scene, of course. The introduction of Madrox. Wolverine and Storm, crying for Xavier. Kelsey Grammar was excellent as Hank McCoy, and earned his paycheck just by convincingly saying, "Oh, my stars and garters". They also made him fight like the Beast does in the comics, too. I was worried that Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut wouldn't cut it, but he really sold well. So did Aaron Stanford as Pyro and Dania Ramirez as Callisto -- they liked being Evil Mutants.
And then we come to the crimson elephant in the room: Famke Janssen. Bluntly, in the first two films she wasn't all that good, and she wasn't all that hot. She does all right here, though, enough so at least that you can see why Cyclops (James Marsden) and Logan (Jackman) love her. And, as Phoenix, she is damn scary, not because she looks so dangerous, but because somehow, between direction and make-up and SFX, they created a synergy that conveys her dangerousness.
That's actually a big, important thing here: As in the first X-film, as in Spider-Man 2 with the fight on the train, X3 sells the idea of superpowers in a way that few other films have. You truly get the idea of why mutants are feared.
Natch, you have to wait all the way till the end.
There are plot holes, the biggest two being: When Storm and Wolverine found Jean, why didn't Logan hold up Scott's glasses and say, "I found these," so Storm could say, "Where's Scott?" and Logan could answer, "I don't know"? Scott's missing, Jean's alive, c'mon, people, use a braincell or two. Same thing: During the final attack, Magneto just yanked the frickin' Golden Gate Bridge off its moorings and moved it somewhere more aesthetically pleasing. There are six X-Men in front of him, two of which are substantially metal. He could've wadded up Colossus like a sheet of aluminum foil, and flung Logan hither and yon to slash his own team to ribbons.
But I guess they wouldn't have had a big fight scene that way. They just would've, y'know, won.
That being said, I enjoyed it. Not a classic, but satisfying. Maybe satisfying and a quarter.
Anything to share?
There was a surprising amount of character work, as well -- often economical to the point of streamlined, but damn if it didn't work anyway. The two love triangles were drawn with very clean, simple lines and situations, and yet they, along with the acting (particularly, again, Hugh Jackman and Anna Paquin) made it all work. Shawn Ashmore and Ellen Page as Bobbie Drake and Kitty Pride stepped up and did great. In fact, let's get that aspect out of the way: There really isn't a bad performance here, and there are many good ones. Halle Berry gets something to work with and makes it count; Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen are, well, Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen.
Many, many touches, many cool moments. The ice-skating scene, of course. The introduction of Madrox. Wolverine and Storm, crying for Xavier. Kelsey Grammar was excellent as Hank McCoy, and earned his paycheck just by convincingly saying, "Oh, my stars and garters". They also made him fight like the Beast does in the comics, too. I was worried that Vinnie Jones as Juggernaut wouldn't cut it, but he really sold well. So did Aaron Stanford as Pyro and Dania Ramirez as Callisto -- they liked being Evil Mutants.
And then we come to the crimson elephant in the room: Famke Janssen. Bluntly, in the first two films she wasn't all that good, and she wasn't all that hot. She does all right here, though, enough so at least that you can see why Cyclops (James Marsden) and Logan (Jackman) love her. And, as Phoenix, she is damn scary, not because she looks so dangerous, but because somehow, between direction and make-up and SFX, they created a synergy that conveys her dangerousness.
That's actually a big, important thing here: As in the first X-film, as in Spider-Man 2 with the fight on the train, X3 sells the idea of superpowers in a way that few other films have. You truly get the idea of why mutants are feared.
Natch, you have to wait all the way till the end.
There are plot holes, the biggest two being: When Storm and Wolverine found Jean, why didn't Logan hold up Scott's glasses and say, "I found these," so Storm could say, "Where's Scott?" and Logan could answer, "I don't know"? Scott's missing, Jean's alive, c'mon, people, use a braincell or two. Same thing: During the final attack, Magneto just yanked the frickin' Golden Gate Bridge off its moorings and moved it somewhere more aesthetically pleasing. There are six X-Men in front of him, two of which are substantially metal. He could've wadded up Colossus like a sheet of aluminum foil, and flung Logan hither and yon to slash his own team to ribbons.
But I guess they wouldn't have had a big fight scene that way. They just would've, y'know, won.
That being said, I enjoyed it. Not a classic, but satisfying. Maybe satisfying and a quarter.
Anything to share?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:37 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:59 pm (UTC)And oh, yes - quite hot enough.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:41 pm (UTC)And did they show the shiny new Snakes on a Plane trailer before yours as well? 'Cause that just starts the evening on a good note in my book.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:49 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 09:58 pm (UTC)There was also quite a bit to not like. Fortunately, for me, the good outweighed the 'meh'.
The movie really ended up being a lot of really good bits tacked onto a weak framework, hiding the bad stuff. That it turned out as well as it did is certainly commendable, and was a good, fun ride, but certainly no X-Men 2.
And every time I talk about the movie, it feels like I'm ragging on it, and didn't like it, but I *did*. I'm also aware of the problems with the movie.
And I wanted a giant firebird, damnit! I giant fire *anything* woulda been nice! ;)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 10:06 pm (UTC)I guess this is really like SWE6: not as much as we wanted, but it does the job and even has some flair.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 10:22 pm (UTC)(Come to think of it, was he ever actually called by either of his names?)
As for Juggernaut...funny, I never knew Charlie X's stepbrother had that accent. Or was a mutant, for that matter; last I checked, Cain Marko wasn't terribly fond of mutants. And frankly, though it got a huge crowd reaction, the "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch!" was pointlessly gratuitous -- though I will admit, the line DOES capture the character's "do NOT mess with me" mindset.
(I've made my peace with the costume changes. Not gonna go off on that rant here.)
I didn't stay until the end of the credits, so I have no idea what this uber-gotcha is, but seeing the-once-and-future-Magneto move that chesspiece was enough for me. I felt, frankly, cheated. That millimeter wobble completely destroyed the pathos of Erik's defeat.
It also means that Rogue and Bobby are in for a very, very nasty surprise one of these evenings.
All in all, it was an enjoyable popcorn movie. It could have been better, but for what it was intended to be -- an Action Film Spectacular -- it was okay.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 01:44 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 05:12 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 08:01 pm (UTC)That's what MAKES it pointlessly gratuitous. It's "look how cool and hep we are, we can use the Internet!"
Juggernaut problem
Date: 2006-05-30 03:44 am (UTC)Re: Juggernaut problem
Date: 2006-05-30 04:32 am (UTC)Re: Juggernaut problem
Date: 2006-05-31 12:02 am (UTC)The comic-book Beast wasn't blue because he was a mutant?
Then...why was he blue?
Re: Juggernaut problem
Date: 2006-05-31 03:01 pm (UTC)but then, in typical comic book scientist fashion, tried an experiment on himself and, in typical comic book scientist fashion, it did not go as expected, and turned Beast blue. No more part of his mutation than Wolverine's adamantium bones.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-29 10:31 pm (UTC)I remember Phoenix in the comics as being manic, an experience junkie, I only saw that when she pounced Logan. This Phoenix was horrifying, but I expected more.
I don't recall adamantium being magnetic.
The deaths of both Cyclops and the Professor I thought could have been better done and better used. There was supposed to be a hint of Jean in with the Phoenix, I thought, I'd expect her to be mortified at what she'd done, then perhaps go mad.
I haven't liked Halle Berry as Storm at all, she's got none of the tension I've always felt should be intrinsic to a character who always needs to keep her emotions under control.
Liked Beast, liked Kitty Pride & Ice Man, thought much of the camera work was very well done. The plot had fewer holes than I'd been led to expect.
Glad I went, but won't pay full price to see it again, and I would have for the other two.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 02:22 am (UTC)If you had stayed through the credits, you wouldn't say that the "deaths" were wasted.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:48 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 02:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:10 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 12:56 pm (UTC)If you apply a large enough extermal magnetic field to a material (any material, even organics), you can induce a dipole moment in the material that allows you to manipulate it. It is much easier to do with metals than non-metals.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-31 02:14 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 12:29 am (UTC)Furball on Film
Date: 2006-05-30 01:38 am (UTC)I have wanted to see Beast, my favorite mutie, since the first film and in fact he was written in for the first film but they ran out of money, So they made Jean a Doctor. The opening scene where Jean is addressing the Senators and Scientists and Senator Kelly challenges her was supposed to be the blue guy. I am so glad he finally made an appearance. I even brought my beast action figure to the movie, I am such a geek.
I couldn't believe what they did to Chuck, sorry...Professor Xavier, I sometimes go in to Wolvie mode, but then the ending fixed that kind of. Still when it originally happened I was stunned. I kept waiting for Cyke to come in up till the end and save the day. The movie didn't pull any punches and I was glad for that. Like in the comics...nobody ever really dies (Colossus?) and nothing is forever. This movie kinda pulled that stuff with the big players but Mystique ain't gonna be playing make believe anytime soon. There are of course gripes about purist issues but on the whole I think they did an excellent job.
There was griping about the lack of Gambit, but it was better choice. You throw him in there with Wolverine and you have two bad asses who will cause the plot to be about them and lose its momentum. As for an X-men IV...I don't see it...Possible, but unlikely. Even if we see Charles again...he lost his mutant body, so it's over in my mind. A Single Wolverine movie...definite possibilities there. Maybe Gambit can make a showing in that as an annoyance then ally.
So see the film, see it often, tell your friends, have them see it, then start going out in the streets dressed as your favorite character with a large sign shouting to passers by to see the film.
Re: Furball on Film
Date: 2006-05-30 02:23 am (UTC)Angel just is NOT that fast...
Date: 2006-05-30 01:40 am (UTC)OK, follow me here (apologies, but I am also letting my extreme comic book geek out as well :) ):
The Blackbird is essentially and updated SR-71 - it will run around Mach 3 or 4 - it can cross the country in (let's be conservative) 1.5 to 2 hours. It is sunset as the X-Men arrive in San Fransisco from Westchester County, NY. The battle wages for say 20 to 30 minutes - heck, let's be generous and say an hour - before the Brotherhood is about to test Warren Worthington II's flight-worthiness at the top of Alcatraz. It has now been maybe 4 hours (at the most) since the X-Men left the mansion and we last saw WW III, and yet he arrives in time to save his pop? Sorry, Angel cannot fly at Mach 1 or 2 - per Marvel, Angel's top speed is 150 mph.
I concede that there may be two reasonable (or at least as reasonable as comic books about mutant superheroes get :) ) explanations, but no evidence was provided by the film for either, so I consider it a hole:
1) He snuck on board the Blackbird - unlikely with Wolvie and his sniffer aboard
2) He chartered his own Mach 3+ aircraft (he is filthy rich, remember) - uh, but where is he going to find one on such short notice? Concordes - R - Us?
Re: Angel just is NOT that fast...
Date: 2006-05-30 01:03 pm (UTC)Hooray for the No-Prize!
Finally! I can talk to someone about it! ;)
Date: 2006-05-30 01:58 am (UTC)I also don't think that Magneto, even with his powers stripped from him, would say pathetically "What have I done?" while he watched Jean destroy everything around her. Magneto is powerful and it's not just because he can manipulate metal. Losing his powers would be quite a blow, but I don't think it'd make him suddenly switch sides.
I was quite disappointed in Wolverine and Bobby using the "cure" against Pyro and Magneto, even though I'm not sure there was another way to stop them. Having said that, I LOVED how it was delivered to Magneto "You never learn" "Actually, yes I have" as someone comes from behind and jabs four of the things into his chest (I can't remember who it was that did that). Go Wolverine. :)
The bridge thing was just silly. I mean, I understand the concept of a presence attack, but PLEASE. As for Magneto not crushing Colossus or using Wolverine against his own team, I think despite Magneto thinking that the X-MEN are misguided, he sees them as his mutant brothers, and I think that's what keeps him from just outright killing them.
I do have to admit to being quite disgusted when Magneto lost his powers (not to mention Mystique and WTF was up with Magneto just abandoning her?), so it was a relief to see that he could barely move the chess piece and thus, would be back. I mean, first they kill off Prof. X (I thought for sure Phoenix would suddenly turn good and reassemble him), ;) then they take Magneto too??? I was wondering why they thought the cure was permanent when that boy's mutatation only worked while mutants were close to him. As soon as the body flushes it all out of their system, voila, mutation back. And, I'm not usually one to stay til the end of the credits (because everytime I do, there's nothing to see), but thankfully the people I went with were, so I got to see that too.
Oh yeah, and Beast ROCKED. He was never one of my favorites in the cartoon (I didn't read the comics, but I did watch the Saturday morning cartoon), but Kelsey Grammar did such a great job. I do wish Nightcrawler had been in it, but from what I understand, they couldn't get the actor. :(
Overall, a good movie, even with the points that bothered me. I'm looking forward to seeing it again later this week with Wolf and Lothie so I can finally talk to them about it!
Re: Finally! I can talk to someone about it! ;)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:23 am (UTC)I saw nothing to indicate that he was switching sides. What I did see what a sudden realization that she was not, in fact, in control of her powers and was about to destroy ... well, possibly everything. It was a moment when he realized exactly what his own arrogance was going to cost him and his fellow mutants.
not to mention Mystique and WTF was up with Magneto just abandoning her?
Think of what he said to different characters at least twice during the course of the movies: "You are a God among insects." She was no longer a mutant, therefore she did not belong in "Heaven" with the other Gods anymore ... she had fallen, even though for a noble purpose, and no longer had a place by his side. It's really very true to his character, not only from the comics, but from how he was portrayed through all three movies.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 02:04 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 02:18 am (UTC)The biggest message that I took home from the movie, though, was the ultimate way to tell whether a mutant is evil or not. Apparently, evil mutants use Jazz Hands.
Sincerely. Watch closely, and you'll notice that good mutants don't need dramatic gestures - or if they do, they just hold out a flat hand. Evil mutants go Fosse all over their foes during combat, flailing their fingers and crossing their wrists. I really wanted Pyro to have a little bowler hat to just put the icing on the cake of his choreography.....
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 02:36 am (UTC)Beast could have been more witty, Wolverine could have been less of a wuss, Cyclops could have been less of a soap opera star, Angel could have been more complex, and the Pyro vs. Iceman fight could have been less like Dragonball Z, but those flaws are made up for by the good qualities.
Primarily the "I'm the Juggernaut, bitch" reference. The entire movie could have sucked and that one line would have saved it for me.
The other good qualities were the ending with Magneto (the Xavier P.S. ending was cool too, but Magneto alone left enough of a foot in the door for a sequel), the fights, and the army of mutants. The acting, on average, was rather good. Not as good as it could have been, but it was good.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 05:16 pm (UTC)I'm gonna KILL 'em, I'm gonna RAPE 'em and I'm gonna EAT his f***in' costume!
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:03 am (UTC)I have to disagree. He is a very single minded person, having grown more fanatic about his cause. Having her become "human" made her drop from his focus. Going back to the comic, this is the man who dismissed Magda, the LOVE of his life, mother to his children. Discarding her picture, writing her off cause she had DARED to trying and stand in his way of his cause.
We've gone through the three movies with Magneto going from Teacher, to Missionary, to Fanatic.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:33 am (UTC)However there were many individual elements that I really liked. Enough so that the movie was not a waste of time for me. I'll even go back and see it again, now that I've had time to mull it over. And I need to see wha happened at the end of the credits. Thanks again to the rather heavy handed hints dropped in the film I think I know what will happen but I'll wait and see.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 12:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 04:13 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 03:20 pm (UTC)I think it was too short. About 20 minutes of padding out emotional responses and character scenes that the first two are littered with would have been good.
My main three issues:
#1 - My gripes: Cyclops, who got the shaft in the first two movies, gets completely and utterly shafted again, and for good. And nobody really seems to care. They don't find his body and they don't even try to look for him. This bothered me quite a bit.
#2 - I like the idea of Magneto abandoning Raven once she loses her mutation, but only if they deal with it in a human and emotionally interesting way. Aside from one line on his way out that makes him seem more like an ass, it doesn't really come up again or affect anything.
#3 - We've added Kitty and Piotr and Angel as theoretically main characters, but Piotr has, I believe, one line and kitty does almost nothing. Angel's plot could be lifted entirely out of the movie without effecting anything. Overall I would have preferred less characters with more time devoted to the character moments that make the first two films so memorable for me.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-05-30 05:21 pm (UTC)Magneto:"Charles Xavier did more for mutantkind than you will ever know, and my deepest regret is that is that he had to die for our dream to live.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-01 08:53 pm (UTC)But I got hustled out of the theatre before the credits could roll, They even turned the lights on and everything. WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED!? SOMEONE TELL ME! *Cries*
(no subject)
Date: 2006-06-06 07:04 am (UTC)Quality's horrible, but at least you get the gist... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkSi0JOukiY&search=X3%20credits)