AFI's 25 Greatest Movie Musicals

[filkertom]

Here. I agree completely with the top three, although I start to lose it immediately at The Sound of Music (#4). Where it falls apart for me is ranking Grease at all, let alone (#20) above Beauty and the Beast (#22) and Guys and Dolls (#23). And I have a special love for Little Shop of Horrors and Rocky Horror Picture Show, but I knew they wouldn't make the cut....

... but what the fuck is The Music Man NOT doing in the Top 25!?

Discuss.

Comments

[ericcoleman]

No Kiss Me Kate ???

For that matter, no Cole Porter at all ???

screw'em

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Crap! I knew there was another one I was thinking of...

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Yes, agree to the top three...as much as I don't care for Wizard Of Oz (though it has been years upon years since I've seen it; maybe I'll go back some tome), I can't argue with its placement.

The Sound Of Music definitely deserves a place within the top 25, and maybe even the top ten...but you're right, maybe not #4. But Cabaret as #4? I dunno. Maybe My Fair Lady should be moved up...and The King And I should be a place or two higher, too.

Grease is a misstep...and where is Fiddler On The Roof? Maybe it's my background but I feel that deserves a place.

Oh, and only one Disney animated? Sure, if I had to pick one, that's the one, but there are one or two others which deserve a place...but Beauty And The Beast looks to be a stand-in, representing all the Disney animated musicals.

With a few of these, I get the sense there's too much emphasis on good songs within the musicals, and not enough consideration for the rest of the show, so a few good songs can carry a show--which I don't think is good.

Also, though I know it had to happen that way, I have to wonder what that list would look like if they didn't allow movie adaptations of Broadway musicals...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I absolutely think The Wizard of Oz deserves its place there, and I urge you to revisit it. It may not be to your taste; then again, sometimes that distance is necessary. I'm going to try The Sound of Music again soon for that very reason.

I agree on Fiddler. It should be up there. Cabaret broke a lot of ground, but I'm not sure it should be #4. And All That Jazz is excellent, I've got it on my shelf... but I'm not sure it should be in the top 25.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

No South Pacific? No Fiddler on the Roof?

Not to mention the ones you mentioned.

And please. If you have to have only one Disney animated film (and I don't understand why, if other studios can have multiple entries), Snow White kicks Beauty's tail from here to Happily Ever After. Doubly so, if you consider it as a musical.

Me, I'd rank My Fair Lady lower, but that's because I take issue with (a) the casting and (b) the use of a stand-in voice.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I would personally disagree on the Snow White vs. Beauty and the Beast thing myself, but that doesn't mean that [a] both aren't on my shelf and [b] Snow doesn't deserve to be on the list. I could make a case for Hunchback and Aladdin as well.

[jss]

I'm sorry, but I just can't sit through South Pacific. I've tried, several times, and it just doesn't do it for me. It feels slow and clunky, the thing is sexist and misogynist, and while some of the music is great, much of it goes on for about three times as long as it should. I don't miss it not being in the top 25.

YMMV, etc.

[ladystarblade.livejournal.com]

On the "stand-in" voice in "My Fair Lady," Audrey Hepburn did do all her own singing originally and was upset when the studio decided to dub in Marni Nixon instead. That was just studio stupidity. If I recall correctly, Marni Nixon also dubbed in Natalie Wood's singing voice in "West Side Story." (The supporting cast stole that movie anyway.)

And who would've made a better Henry Higgins than Rex Harrison? So brilliantly perfect...and I think I went to high school with a younger version of him, LOL

[annechen-melo.livejournal.com]

Gypsy is one that I would care to see on the list. But Grease on the list and not the Professor? Bah.

[james-rayner.livejournal.com]

I'm looking at the ballot.
And I weep.
Because "The Producers" - Arguably Mel Brook's Finest work EVER is not even on the Ballot.

I'm looking at the list. I have to rewrite this entirely.

The first three, I can agree with to some degree- Although I would put West Side Story above Singin in the Rain any day of the week...
But for the rest...I will leave in place the ones that deserve, to some degree, to remain.

#4 - Carousel (If you can watch this old movie and not cry, You have no heart.)
#5 - The Muppet Movie (Because nothing says "Childhood Memories" Like Rainbow Connection.)
#6 - Mary Poppins ( I must admit, this deserves it's spot.)
#7 - Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (Why isnt this on the list either? OOMPA LOOMPA DISCRIMINATION!)
#8 - The Music Man (o/~ Seventy Six Trombones led the Big Parade...)
#9 - The Lion King ( It's SO hard to choose between this and Beauty and the Beast - but Hakuna Matata is catchier than Be our guest.)
#10 - Beauty and the Beast (see above.)
#11 - The King and I (Keeps it's place due to classical merit.)
#12 - Chicago (Keeps it's place due to Catherine Zita-Jones' Legs, and the good music.)
#13 - Evita (One of the most fantastic looks at the truth of love.)
#14 - The Producers (Because Mel Brooks deserves it, damnit.)
#15 - Annie Get Your gun (For No Business Like Showbusiness.)
#16 - Bye Bye Birdie ( Truly a Great American Musical, but needed to be a bit further down the list.)
#17 - Guys and Dolls (Needed to be further up, Because I did it in Highschool.)
#18 - Moulin Rouge! (I happened to love this movie, and it's oh-so-simple message, which I am going to put on my Tombstone.)
#19 - All that Jazz (See #11.)
#20 - Annie (which deserves a spot SOLEY Because Aileen Quinn was ridiculously cute.)
#21 - Chitty Chitty Bang Bang (We Love you, Ai! oh! Everywhere we go!)
#22 - The Little Shop of Horror (FEED ME!)
#23 - Rocky Horror Picture Show (Which deserved the cut because of how huge of a cult hit it has been. And EVERYONE Knows the Time Warp.)
#24 - Yankee Doodle Dandy (I love it's songs. ALL OF THEM.)
#25 - Aladdin (I would put this further up, but there are far too many better choices. Aladdin was, however, an awesome peice of Disney.)

I have a soft spot for "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying" but I've never seen the film.

This is how the list OUGHT To look, damnit.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

The original movie of The Producers is not a musical, and the new movie apparently sunk.

[zenturbo.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with 'The King and I', that is one of my favourite musicals and I was shocked to see it so low. I also agree with 'Litte Shop of Horrors', 'Rocky Horror', and 'The Music Man'.

[ladystarblade.livejournal.com]

My own rambling thoughts...

Never been a fan of musicals, though "My Fair Lady" is one of my all-time favorite movies, period...but the one I'm surprised isn't anywhere..."Jesus Christ Superstar." Looking at it from a purely musical standpoint, it out and out rocks. Carl Anderson (rest in peace) was a force to behold as Judas both on the big screen and stage. And notice how Judas got all the best songs even after he died? "Heaven on Their Minds," "Superstar," and "Herod's Song" are big standouts for me...I just love the music.

"Beauty and the Beast" is wonderful, no doubt, but I would've taken "The Little Mermaid" first. C'mon...Samuel E. Wright and "Under the Sea." Need I say more? And I will admit to soft spots for "Evita" (Antonio Bandaras singing "Oh, What a Circus"!) and "Rent" of late. "Chicago" and "Moulin Rouge" did wonders for reviving the modern musical...who knew Richard Gere could tapdance and Ewan McGregor could sing?

I would've nudged "The King and I" a little higher and knocked "Mary Poppins" a little lower. And no "Rocky Horror"? Sigh.

And last but not least...wouldn't life be a little more interesting if it was like a musical and people broke into random song and dance numbers?

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

wouldn't life be a little more interesting if it was like a musical and people broke into random song and dance numbers?

Seen it done, mostly on TV. I think (and feel free to speculate just how it happens that I remember this random factoid, fifteen years later) Clarissa Explains It All did that once, and a few others I can't place at the moment.

[dr-zrfq.livejournal.com]

I can't argue with the top 4, even though I'm not all that *fond* of the movie version of West Side Story. The Sound of Music was, IMO, the absolute best of all Rodgers and Hammerstein adaptations, and well deserved the Best Picture Oscar it got.

I wouldn't mind seeing Little Shop of Horrors there too, but yeah, it didn't have much chance. Rocky Horror, while I love it as a total experience, is a pretty *bad* movie. It is bad enough to be camp -- but that doesn't make it deserving of a top 25 spot.

I'd add The Music Man, Fiddler on the Roof, and (flips coin) Cinderella to the list, in place of Grease, Moulin Rouge, and The Band Wagon. After that it gets iffy -- do we remove On the Town, f'r'ex, in favor of the Muppets or Willy Wonka?

I'd certainly rearrange the ones that are left -- Cabaretshould be in the second ten, likewise with My Fair Lady (it's painfully obvious that neither lead can really sing); Beauty and the Beast should be higher, as should Chicago.

[msminlr.livejournal.com]

"My Fair Lady (it's painfully obvious that neither lead can really sing)"
Yes-but
Prof Higgins' pieces were deliberately crafted to be do-able BY Rex Harrison, taking into account his vocal limitations.
Would George Bernard Shaw (or Alan Jay Lerner, for that matter) roll in the grave over the notion that Higgins' pieces were among the first rap?
Harold Hill's pieces in The Music Man were done in similar style; Robert Preston was no nightingale, either.

[daundelyon.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I'd put it in the top 25, but I really liked 1776. Maybe the top 50.
Definetly agree with the *way up there now* comment about The Muppet Movie. These are songs that everyone can relate to and sing along with even if they've never seen the movies.

[redaxe.livejournal.com]

As musicals go, 1776 is technically about a B to B+, and the top 25 should be for A+ grades.

But it's in my top-10 favorites, always and forever.

[que-sara-sara.livejournal.com]

I have to admit that I'm thrilled with Moulin Rouge being on the list. I can't decide if I enjoied the movie more because of the sound track or because I got to stare at Nicole Kidman in a corset for two hours.

And remind me to tell you who I've been trying to email all night, I think you'll be as geeked about it as I am. :)

[catalana.livejournal.com]

I have a soft spot for Gigi, personally, and it's not on there anywhere. I'd probably have Jesus Christ Super Star in as well. And, to be honest, I'm not all that fond of the film version of Guys and Dolls because Brando acted a lot better than he sang. If ever there were a good case for dubbing the voice...*grin*

I'd also move Yankee Doodle Dandy higher because I *adore* it. Not so crazy about Singing in the Rain, to be honest.

[drzarron.livejournal.com]

And yeah, no "MUSIC MAN"?? You've got to be joking.

And no "Kiss Me Kate"?? One of my all time favorites.

"Caberet"?? Like someone said, killer on stage, movie SUCKED.

"MOULIN ROUGE"?????? WTF???

I will state now that I have never agreed with ANY of the AFI listings. They are all elitest clap trap

[trdsf.livejournal.com]

No 'South Park: Bigger, Longer and Uncut', no 'Music Man', no 'Hair', no 'Hello, Dolly', no 'Oliver', no 'Oklahoma' (that being a shock on par with the omission of 'The Music Man' or the inclusion of 'Grease'). Basically, all this list proves that they needed to list more than twenty-five... and like drzarron above, I've had issues with AFI lists before.

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

My thoughts:

Several classics of the American muswical theater, such as Okalahoma, "Hello, Dolly", Hair and Oliver aren't exceptional movie musicals. Same in my opinion with Fiddler on the Roof: great on the stage, but just lies there on the screen.

My ordering would be as follows:

01-Singin' in the Rain
02-West Side Story
03-My Fair Lady
04-Show Boat
05-The Sound of Music
06-All that Jazz
07-Mary Poppins
08-Chicago
09-The King and I
10-Seven Brides for Seven Brothers
11-Jesus Christ Superstar
12-42nd Street
13-An American in Paris
14-Victor/Victoria
15-Cabaret
16-Meet Me in St. Louis
17-Top Hat
18-Yankee Doodle Dandy
19-Grease
20-The Music Man
21-Fame
22-South Park: Bigger, Longer, Uncut
23-How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying
24-1776
25-Bye Bye Birdie

Geeky question

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Which version of Show Boat? There's about 17. :-) But I agree it should be up there.

Camelot?

[pickledcritter.livejournal.com]

I've always loved Camelot, but more for personal reasons than anything else (it was my first introduction to Arthurian myth, and was my grandmother's favorite movie) would watch on videotape while growing up) - I'm not sure if it would be considered Top 25 by anyone else, but I just can't be objective about it :) - it's on my personal Top 25...

Re: Camelot?

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

It's on mine, too. I can remember the words to all the songs (and try to sing them) and the set design is glorious.

On the other hand, I find Moulin Rouge boring, and must be the only person in the world to hate An American in Paris. Chicago is a bad movie and one of the worst to win a best film Oscar, however good the stage version was.

A lot of my favourites are there, but I certainly miss Kiss Me Kate and, in particular Calamity Jane a perfectly cast, pure screen musical with some terrific songs and a lightheartedness it's hard to find nowadays.

[palenoue.livejournal.com]

I must be psychic. About five weeks ago I was discussing musical movies with an email friend and he lamented that they were fading from popular attention (to which I disagreed) but he wished there was something to be done to make people talk about musicals with the same passion they talk about other types of movies.

I replied: "Easy. Just get a lot of self-proclaimed authorities to come out with a list of the top musicals, but with questionable placement of the top ten and make sure they leave off a number of movies that should have obviously been included."

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some more prophecies to make, this time about cheese.

[markbernstein.livejournal.com]

So many musicals, so few slots. I would certainly cut "Guys and Dolls" and "Grease", and don't rate "Funny Girl" or "The Band Wagon" quite at the highest level. I'm ambivalent about "All That Jazz" - it's a helluva movie, but it's mainly carried by the characterization. I don't think the musical numbers made that big a contribution. I enjoyed "Moulin Rouge", and grant that it's unique, but all time great? Probably not.

Yeah, "Music Man" is solid. "Fiddler on the Roof" and "South Pacific" don't get my vote. Neither, much as I love it, does "The Muppet Movie".

So let's see, that give me six omissions and one addition so far. What else do I add? (I won't get into the hairsplitting of order.)

The Court Jester - Not having any Danny Kaye is a criminal omission, and this is his finest.
Stormy Weather - A truly incredible assemblage of talent, and a damn good movie to boot.
Fame - "Fame", "Hot Lunch", "I Sing The Body Electric". Probably the best teen musical ever.
The Rocky Horror Picture Show - There's never been anything else like it.

The last slot I think would go to something older, either one of the Micky Rooney/Judy Garland "Babes" movies, or "Rose Marie". (That last one's for my mom, who's a huge Nelson Eddy fan. :) )

[ericcoleman]

I wouldn't count Court Jester as a musical really. It's one of those borderline cases, one of my favorite all time movies, but still a borderline case for me

It's all about the buck$

[selenesue.livejournal.com]

Jeez, maybe they should have gone for a top 50, if not 100. Some worthy candidates had to go in order to accomodate worthy if currently "unfashionable" shows, notably the pre-1950 entries.

I mostly concur with Tom's observations, and have to sadly explain them in terms of box office. "Grease" made a buttload of money on stage and screen and sold a lot of audio albums.

I'm just happy that any Disney film made the list at all. Considering the constituancy of the poll, it had to be a show which was still on Broadway and "current" in the minds, at least of the east coast voters.

From a film history geek point of view: the first "Talkie" was a musical, remember? "The Jazz Singer." This deserved representation for that datum alone, I think.

Re: It's all about the buck$

[r-caton.livejournal.com]

Yes. And no-one could deny that Jolson grabbed an audience when he sang....
Why they remade that I'll never know.