THE MATRIX. Sh-Yeah, Right

[filkertom]

I have friends who swear by Entertainment Weekly. I usually swear at it. It's a little more interested in its own snark than actual quality. And, this week, for me it jumps the snark.

Number One on The Top 25 Sci-Fi Movies and TV Shows of the past 25 years is The Matrix?

(They also don't seem to know who's playing Doctor Who these days.)

And, before any of you say it, yes, Top Whatever lists are dumb, they reflect the interests of whoever made the list (credited writer is Jeff Jensen), they mean nothing to real fans, yadda fuckin' yadda. But when they get put in mainstream publications with lots of circulation, they become Conventional Wisdom for people who don't know any better. It's exactly like Sunday morning bobbleheads -- The Truth Is Out There (#4), but you have to tell people.

In case you don't want to go through twenty-five pages on the EW site, here's the list:

1. The Matrix
2. Battlestar Galactica (2003)
3. Blade Runner
4. The X-Files
5. Star Trek 2: The Wrath Of Khan
6. Brazil
7. E.T.
8. Star Trek: TNG
9. Aliens
10. John Carpenter's The Thing
11. Lost
12. Back To The Future
13. Terminator/Terminator 2
14. Children of Men
15. Firefly/Serenity
16. Total Recall
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
18. Heroes
19. Starship Troopers
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars
21. Futurama
22. Quantum Leap
23. Doctor Who
24. Galaxy Quest
25. V: The Miniseries

Not only am I struck by what's on the list, I'm struck by what's not. Babylon 5, for one. The Incredibles and The Iron Giant. Contact. Stuff like that. For that matter, with the sensibilities that brought The Matrix and Starship Troopers to the list, I'm surprised Independence Day and Armageddon aren't up there.

I'm also bemused thinking about how strangely focused the list is: "The Top 25 Sci-Fi Movies And TV Series of the past 25 years". Which doesn't sound at all strange, until you remember that the Sci-Fi blockbuster was invented only thirty years ago. EW even admits they wish they could put the first two Star Wars movies up there, but, shucks, they're just outside the time limit. Along with Close Encounters, Escape From New York, Superman....

So. What would be on your list that isn't on theirs? Note that we are not counting "fantasy" movies (e.g., The Lord of the Rings The Princess Bride), even though about half of the entries they've got here technically are fantasy movies. They did, however, let superheroes in (with Heroes), so I count that as fair game. (I promise I will sit down and watch Heroes at some point, although I've gotta catch up with Galactica now, but... this stuff has been done, gang. Remember another non-entry on this list, Unbreakable?)

ETA: I really should've been more explicit about what I think does and does not belong on the list. I can make a case for The Matrix being there, but not at #1. E.T. is, I think, a fantasy movie, along with Eternal Sunshine. I haven't watched Lost, but everything I'm told gives me a non-SF vibe; I'd be happy to be proven wrong. ST:TNG!? Give me a break. Better, give me a writer with halfway-decent premises. ST:TNG and ST:V made a painful habit of writing beautiful John W. Campbell-style scripts based around the most ludicrous starting points. John Carpenter's The Thing was not bad, but it was a horror movie. If that gets in, I want Re-Animator. Starship Troopers!? Jayzus. In that case, I want Godzilla 2000.

Besides the ones I mentioned above, where the hell is A.I.? The Abyss? Alien Nation? WarGames? Little Shop of Horrors? Jurassic Park? The Dune miniseries? Dark City? Men In Black? Tron? The Handmaid's Tale? Do they seriously think Futurama is better than the animated Justice League?

Comments

[alicetheowl.livejournal.com]

Hmm. No quibble with a lot of those, but Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind? As a science fiction flick?

Okay, the tech in it was definitely scientific, and fictitious, but "science fiction" doesn't come to mind when describing it. It strikes me as more artsy, surreal post-modern.

I did enjoy it, but I'm highly uncomfortable with the idea of placing it on this list.

And surely the Clone Wars saga can be bumped off the list to make room for B5.

But I have nothing new to add that you haven't already mentioned.

[nuveena.livejournal.com]

V??? They put V on the list and left off Babylon 5????

[vixyish.livejournal.com]

That was my first reaction as well. *V*??!?

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

A few years ago, EW did a "top cult movies" countdown. (Rocky Horror: #2. #1? Spinal Tap.)

I remember mentioning this to a friend of mine, and his response was "what do they know from cult movies?" Which I guess is the case here, too...Starship Troopers? Eternal Sunshine? What? And even though I liked Children Of Men, isn't it a bit too recent to make it number 14?

X-Men 2 probably deserves a place on the list, and Trek First Contact as well. (Unless that gets lumped in with Trek TNG.) For that matter, DS9 had some absolutely stellar TV...

Here's something--there's no anime on the list. Animation is apparently fair game, since Clone Wars and Futurama made the list...so maybe Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion or Akira deserve a spot.

[ellyssian.livejournal.com]

A few years ago, EW did a "top cult movies" countdown. (Rocky Horror: #2. #1? Spinal Tap.)

Spinal Tap goes to #11. Everyone knows that.

[sarekofvulcan.livejournal.com]

metaquotesed here.

[tony-goldmark.livejournal.com]

Even boguser: they excluded Princess Bride from the list, on the technicality that both Spinal Tap and Princess Bride, very different films in almost every way, were both directed by Rob Reiner and only one film is allowed per director. Zieg heil.

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Also, about Heroes--it has been done, yes, no doubt. But one of the things about it that's so cool, besides the season-arc-TV we always love to encounter, good writing and characterization, and great performances, was best said by a friend of mine in early October:

"I'm just giddy that shit like this is finally on the AIR...And not on the Sci-Fi Channel, either, but on NB-Goddamn-C." (http://leighdb.livejournal.com/140001.html)

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

I quibble with most of that list, actually. But absolutely with their ordering. If you're going to put on a situation comedy it should at least be Red Dwarf, which for two seasons was both funny and damn good sci-fi.

Doctor Who should be much higher, as should Star Trek: TNG and Firefly/Serenity.

Total Recall? Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind? Starship Troopers? Heroes as sci-fi? Clone Wars instead of Star Wars? And as funny as Galaxy Quest was I wouldn't have ranked it above #35, no way ...

[scifantasy.livejournal.com]

Clone Wars instead of Star Wars?

Well, remember, it's of the last 25 years. The only eligible Star Wars were Jedi, the prequels, and Clone Wars.

[jenrose]

And Total Recall SUCKED RAW ROTTEN EGGS.

SRSLY.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

YES.

If they're going to put another Schwarzenegger film up there, how about The Running Man? At least that was enjoyable, and it had a point to make.

[youngcurmudgeon.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's just my youth talking, but I did a little dance when I saw BSG in the #2 spot. I despise the Matrix and everything it stands for, of course, but any list that puts BSG so high AND includes Futurama can't be all bad.

Their new motto

[giza.livejournal.com]

Entertainment Weekly: By The Sheeple, For The Sheeple.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

Okay folks. You thought Wrath of Khan was better than ET? Really? Told the Academy that did ya?

Leaving B5 off is travesty.

Return of the Jedi makes the 25 year limit (1983) and it's not as good as Futurama???

Totall Recall but not ID:4?

WhereTF is Robocop?!?!

"V" beats Jurassic Park and all of the above?

Lost is SCI FI???

Presumably Highlander was not.

As wasn't Beauty and the Beast.

X-Files, the movie or series?

Galaxy Quest??!?! Night of the Comet was better Sci Fi.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Leaving ROTJ off is indeed ludicrous. I thought about Robocop, and while I'm not sure it would be in the top 25 it is really good and would definitely be in a Top 50. Highlander is, I think, more fantasy than SF. Same with Beauty and the Beast. And I do love Galaxy Quest, but it really was more homage than anything else, and very deliberately so. Again, it just shows that Jeff Whatsis is a very shallow fan with pretentions of being deep.

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

And no Farscape or Stargate in any form either.

Robocop might not make top 25, and I think we've named more than 25 that should be on the list (which isn't possible) but still...

You'd think at least half of his list should have won the Hugo for Best Dramatic Presentation Long or Short.

As it is, he's left off B5, the only episodic TV show to win the long bdm since Rod Serling and Harlan Ellison had a tryst in the back of a VW bug.

[solarbird]

Lost is SCI FI???
I would actually agree that it is. There's Stuff going on which takes it out of (sur)realism and specifically into near-future (or now slightly-past, strictly speaking ^_^) SF. It may end up being more science-fantasy than science-fiction, but I've followed a bunch of the background/side things, and there's sciffy stuff going on.

Whether it ends up being good SF is an open question. ^_^ It rather depends upon how they resolve a variety of things.

[solarbird]

And, of course, leaving off Babylon 5 is, indeed, a travesty. Or a farce. Or both.

[louiseroho.livejournal.com]

Since I am a long-time EW reader, I think that they have a bias that weighs "critically good" with "made a butt load of money"

[renquestor.livejournal.com]

Guys, I apologize about this, but I think I need to critique some of the things they have to say.

Doctor Who: Eccleston was great as the ninth Doctor, loved him. However, David Tennant is the current one and in fact he's been the one who people have voted the best doctor. Course, for me, I'm a big fan of the first three. I've seen a lot of the Pertwee eps and a goodly number of the Hartnell eps. I've been trying to find more Troughton but the BBC wiped a buncha his episodes in the mid 70s.

Starship Troopers: Good movie, I enjoyed it. I watch it when I want to turn my mind off. However, it's not very great scifi and frankly, the book (which it resembles in title only) was far better. Doens't even belong on the list.

Star Trek: TNG: Now for those of you on here who know me, you know I'm a die hard Trekkie. However, if TNG is gonna be on this list it deserves to be lower. While the show was good, I fear they spent far too many episodes charting some damn anomaly or having Picard preach at some alien species about the best way to do some (i.e. the Federation way, a criticism I also level at Voyager). If you want a good Trek show for drama and a serious look at the human condition, humanity, morality, religion, and ethics, look no further then Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. That show had all those things, two very hot officers, epic space battles, and tons of the stuff I enjoy, moral ambiguity, to boot. One of the best DS9 shows, and possiblt one of the best Trek shows was "In the Pale Moonlight." It was a treat to watch a commanding officer truly struggle with that sort of weight and decided that in the end he can live with it.

The Matrix: Good movie. Quite enjoyable. Course, if I wanna think about reality being nothing more than a high-teg VR rig, I'll go read Mage: The Ascension and create a Virtual Adept. I thought the movie was quite good. However, like Tom, I really don't think it belongs on the top of this list. For some reason, the authors of the list really think that Return of the Jedi was a poor movie. I enjoyed the hell outta it and frankly, I think it deserves to be in the list more than the Matrix does.

Ah well, these are just my two cents. Sorry 'bout the length of the post, folks.

[beldar.livejournal.com]

"Return" should have made the list, but I'm surprised to find I'm in the minority in thinking it was the best of the original trilogy (many of the fans here think "Empire" was better). Still, it fits the time frame and was better than the I-III trilogy (which oughta be on the list ahead of Starship Troopers at least).

And Eccleston was a great Doctor, but his tenure was too short. With every episode, Tennant is proving to be far better.

[cktraveler.livejournal.com]

Virtually always, it takes about one season for someone to really "settle in" as the new Doctor (and for the writers to adjust to the new actor's style). Eccleston would have been fantastic in his second season, but ...

[sdelmonte]

Farscape. It was a cult hit, it was brought back from the dead (if briefly) by the fans, it had great stories and great acting and amazing Creature Shop creatures, and it was fun. And it feels like it's forgotten already.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

This post was worth it, if nothing else, for the phrase "jumps the snark". :)

That aside...honestly, I don't really care about lists like this. The quality of a movie or television show does not depend on the number of people who thought that it was good. (Except in cases, such as Firefly, in which the show gets axed before it really gets a chance to live because of perceived lack of mass appeal...but I'll point out that it still made this very pop-culture list.)

I can disagree with my friends about which books and movies and shows and music we like, why should I care about what this guy says?

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Mostly because he has sway in a major publication that does tell a lot of people -- including industry people -- what they like. No, on SF/F movies and TV, he's a shmuck, a novice philosopher (see below), but he's got a big honkin' soapbox.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

I guess I'd be more concerned if I felt like this list was actually going to get used for anything. As noted, with only a very few exceptions--each of which is not (AFAIK) in danger of cancellation--all of these projects are already done (much as I'd like to believe that Firefly will be revived), so his opinion doesn't affect what might happen with them. If he were rating current projects, I'd care whether his opinions were congruent with mine.

I'm much more concerned when schmucks' opinions might actually have some impact, which seems unlikely in this case. :) (Ineffectual schmucks. Best kind. ;) )

[hanabishirecca.livejournal.com]

I don't agree with the Matrix topping the list but I suspect I can see where one might get that from. Thinking back to the original Matrix before anyone knew anything about it, the movie was really amazing. For a lot of people, the concept of waking up to find out your entire world is an illusion was a big surprise. I like the Matrix as a stand-alone movie. The sequels, not as much.

Starship Troopers shows that the person creating that list didn't know what they were doing. It was nothing like the book. It certainly failed to bring across the Citizenship is earned by serving. And lets face it, if Starship Troopers had the Jump Suits in them, it would have been much, much better.

I do have a soft spot for V and it doesn't get enough recognition so I was happy to see that on the list. And Lost, I don't know what the 3rd Season has done (and I don't want to know until after I've seen it myself on DVD) but I have seen very little Sci-Fi elements to it.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

I thought The Matrix was very entertaining and well scripted and acted, except of course for its star. ;) Actually, Keanu didn't do all that badly, until the second movie when he was forced to attempt to express emotion. But I think the philosophical buttons it hits have more to do with the dark glasses, trenchcoats, and guns than any New Way To Look At Reality. 'Cause it's wordy as hell, but every bit as deep as that fifteen-second shot in Animal House when a stoned Tom Hulce does the ol' "You mean... our entire universe could be just an atom in the fingernail of some giant... other... being...."

[beldar.livejournal.com]

Just the omission of Farscape alone invalidates the list, and I'm saying that NOT being a Farscape fan (not saying I don't like it, please y'all don't attack me).

How the hell did a mediocre film like "Starship Troopers" make the list? It had no rabid following, didn't impact culture or sci-fi subculture (except for ridicule) and its sequels went unnoticed on straight to video. Wasn't groundbreaking, except to give us critters that were better-used in "Pitch Black" (which would have been marginally more deserving to make the list).

I'd leave ST:TNG on the list because it helped revitalize Trek as a TV property and helped keep the franchise and fandom energized (and some of the episodes were good).

"Eternal Sunshine" may have been genius, but doesn't need to be occupying a space on this list better suited to something more on-topic.

[unclevlad.livejournal.com]

Alright, aside from agreeing that Babylon 5 should be in the top five, I will toss in a few of my missing favorites: Strange Days (1995), The Time Machine (2002), Bicentennial Man (1999) and A Sound of Thunder (2005).

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

Bicentennial Man can't go on the list! Anything with Robin Williams is, by definition, crap.

Or so I've been led to believe the last several years. =/

[cwsensation.livejournal.com]

I will TOTALLY throw my support for the intensely underrated Strange Days being on this list. One of my all-time favorite films.

--Jer

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

Maybe if they dropped the pretenses and spun them as the most popular and/or hyped such-and-such of the past such-and-such years, lists like that would make a fragment of sense. :P

I am impressed that they only managed to cram one Star Wars piece into that, though. Usually lists like this list the original trilogy twice for each movie, and then place the recent ones a dozen spots higher. (I'm still surprised/pleased that all three of them weren't astroturfed to the top of the IMDB top 250.)

[morpheus0013.livejournal.com]

I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't care for The Matrix. I still just don't get what the big damn deal is.

I used to love EW, but we let our subscription lapse a few years ago, and when I pick up the occassional issue now, it's just not as good as it was. This list looks awfully recent and...popular? As if the folks compiling it didn't bother going beyond what was front and center at the video store.

[cwsensation.livejournal.com]

So many things that piss me off about this, but the foremost...

Serenity/Firefly is light-years ahead of at least 10 of the things above it.

Oh, and it may just be me, but I never liked. E.T. EVER. Not even as a kid.

--Jer

[nightmarewriter.livejournal.com]

Even before they edited the guns to be the Pointy Fingers of Doom?? /snark

[tinrat.livejournal.com]

So much to say, so little sleep.

Any list is subjective, limited by the bias of the author or group that created it.

A case can be made that, as far as most non-literary media goes, SF does not exist as a distinct genre. Case in point; a local vid store occasionally gets rid of the SciFi section. They don't get rid of the movies, they just move them to the other sections, all of them. Just about every SF movie and TV show could be classified as something other than just SF. Romance, horror, comedy, mystery....

I guess that makes SF more of a meta-genre.

So perhaps the best option would be "The Top ## List of SF Lists".

[wolfger.livejournal.com]

Maybe Starship Troopers was a typo? Properly placed on "the 25 worst" list, it accidentally was sent to press on "the 25 best"?
Matrix belongs on the list, but not at #1. Maybe the list is "in no particular order"?
Dune mini-series definitely needs to be there.

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

Well, spluh. You hire 20something people who can't remember history past breakfast and this is what you get.

I still remember LAConIII (1996) where Sci-Fi channel's hour of coverage had Dickboy spending half an hour on Mark Hamill...and he forgot to mention that, oh yeah, BUZZ ALDRIN talked on Sunday to a packed auditorium at that con, too. (Fortunately I audiotaped Buzz start to finish. Win!)