Hiroshima

[filkertom]

Sixty-four years ago today, the US detonated an atomic bomb over the city of Hiroshima, Japan. a few days later, they dropped another over Nagasaki.

May such weapons never be used again.

Comments

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

For that matter... In April of 1986, when Chernobyl went poof, I was not quite 15. We lived not too far away, in Switzerland, and watching the news of how the fallout cloud was spreading was scary as heck. Or hearing that you shouldn't drink milk since the cows on pasture would be eating the grass and concentrating the caesium in the milk. And so on.

[baphnedia.livejournal.com]

Yay Cesium! I remember Chernobyl as well, but was about as far as one could get away from it. As for nukes, it'd be nice if, at least in the US, Obama were to repeal the complete and utter bullcrap that Bush Jr had pulled during the ramp-up for the Iraq invasion.

What was pulled was this: Prior to 2002, the US' stance on using nukes was 'if you nuke us, we nuke you'. That got us through the Cold War and sixty years of everything... but in 2002, that wasn't sufficient enough. No. The regulations were changed in late 2002 (IIRC) to 'if you gas us, we nuke you'.

What I'm expecting, is that if Obama doesn't change it back (or move more in the direction of Japan's anti-nuke stance), then some other president after Obama will change it to 'if you shoot us, we nuke you'.

Then, if you insult us, we nuke you.
Then, if you look at us funny, we nuke you.

Etc etc. *sigh*

[phecda.livejournal.com]

In the botanical gardens in Wellington, New Zealand, there is a small corner dedicated to a japanese shrine. Very peaceful, featuring a small pond with a lantern in the center. The lantern contains a flame that was first ignited by the Hiroshima bomb, and has been burning continuously ever since. It will be extinguished only when nuclear weapons have been eradicated from the earth. Also in the shrine is a building stone from the Hiroshima city hall that was at ground zero. The Japanese government gifted New Zealand with this flame (from a similar shrine in Hiroshima) and stone because of New Zealand's staunch support to end the nuclear threat.

[anjala.livejournal.com]

WOW! I can't believe how long it's been. I remember reading a book in the 4th grade about a girl who lived during that time. She became very ill and had a goal of making 1000 paper cranes. I don't remember the book, but it still moves me to this day.

[bryanp.livejournal.com]

You're thinking of Sadako Sasaki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadako_Sasaki).

[anjala.livejournal.com]

Yep! That's it! Thank you for posting that. it still brings tears to my eyes thinking about it.

[birder2.livejournal.com]

The story has been set to music in the song "Cranes over Hiroshima"--which I cannot hear (even in my head) without crying.

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

Whenever I see Linda sign it, or I sign it myself, I end up with tears running down my cheeks.

[angka.livejournal.com]

I completely agree. I just learned how to sign it for our June WCCC concert. There were a couple teary eyes in the audience, and I had to fight not to cry myself during the performance. (I had singing to do in other songs, and it would have made that tough.)

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

Lyrics here:

http://www.lyricspond.com/cranes-over-hiroshima-lyrics-small-fred.html

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

Amen. But something is going to go BANG soon, I fear. I saw in the WSJ that the US has sold 1000 bunker buster bombs to Israel. Not a good time to be working night shift in those buried Iranian nuclear facilities.

[dlobok.livejournal.com]

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." - Albert Einstein

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Unless some nutcase gets nukes, I can't see them being used in the near future. I saw a History Channel show about Sun Zsu's Art of War last weekend and it was pointed out that future wars (everything since Veitnam) won't be won by huge armies line wars before. Future wars will be fought by gurellia tactics and hitting soft targets. Our military should focus more on supporting small squad tactics (everything from drone intelligence gathering to robot bomb disposal, to improved small arms and body armor) and cut back on massive tanks and bombers.

Smart, surgical strikes are how wars are won in the future, not the RTS strategy of building a bunch of heavy weapons and rolling across the screen.

[biomekanic.livejournal.com]

If this sort of thing interests you, I recommend reading The War Nerd over on Exiled (http://exiledonline.com/cat/war-nerd/).

One of his more recent columns talked about how Morocco conquered the French Sahara without even firing a shot - they just marched 100,000s of people into it and said "Well, we live here now, and it's part of Morocco." The French government didn't want to be seen shooting unarmed civilians on live TV, so they lost that colony. ( He also correctly predicted that the Iraq war would be a fiasco the way it was being planned. )

As for future wars... the one I wonder about is the looming possibility of China and India. Both are resource hungry, have huge populations, and are right on top of each other.

[admnaismith.livejournal.com]

"unless some nutcase gets nukes".

That part.

My worry is that some country with a mad Ayatollah will get nukes. In fact, maybe the one case in which I might, maybe, possibly, accept the use of a big bomb as a lesser evil might be if Israel used one to take out an almost-developed nuclear facility in Iran. Maybe.

[graysoul.livejournal.com]

Or vice versa. There are no good guys over there.

[jcw-da-dmg.livejournal.com]

I think Todd Rundgren said it best: "Don't you ever forget. Don't you ever fuckin' forget."

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was horrible, and should Never happen again. The only thing good about it is that it ended a horrible war, and it took both bombs to do it.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

That's something that I think a lot of people don't think about, unfortunately. Yes it was a horrific event, but the President at the time had no good options. Send in ground troops and loose millions, or drop two bombs and lose hundreds and hundreds of thousands many of whom would be innocent lives no matter what. A literal catch 22 with no real way out.

It's things like that, that make me realize that I could never be President. I couldn't handle that kind of choice and I don't want that kind of power.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

Thank you for understanding that. Truman said he would feel badly about to his dying day, but he would feel worse about sending Allied troops into Japan and killing even more Japanese and our own people.

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

Actually, you are incorrect. Japan had already agreed to surrender. The sticking point was that the US wanted unconditional surrender and Japan wanted a guarantee that their emperor would not be treated as a war criminal. Keep in mind the Japanese viewed the emperor as directly descended from a god. Possibly the same as a god -- or as close as you get to it on Earth. And the Japanese agreed everybody who ran the war -- the prime ministers and so on -- could be held and tried as war criminals if desired. Just not the emperor.
We said no and preferred to blast their cities with atomic bombs instead, violating the rules of war (which we actually had also violated very badly with the earlier fire bombing of Tokyo). We killed a huge number of civilians, poisoned the living and the land, and then we decided we didn't want to try the emperor anyhow. Great. So *that* was worth it.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

So you have documentation?

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

They were negotiating, that much at least is documented. At this remove, it is hard to say if it was in good faith or not. Had a settlement been reached, it doesn't seem likely the Japanese could have done much, with just the Emperor--Japan was a wreck, and they had lost access to Chinese resources.

I am grateful that the plans to bomb Kyoto (and that was proposed, so far as I know) did not go forward.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

This; the casualty projections from Coronet and Olympic were horrifying, Eastern Front-like.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

"The only thing good about it is that it ended a horrible war, and it took both bombs to do it."

This is a popular and widely taught lie, but a lie nonetheless. Japan had been trying to negotiate a surrender well in advance of the bombing of Hiroshima. The war could have been ended without dropping a nuclear bomb or invading Japan if the U.S. had been willing to accept anything short of an unconditional surrender.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but untrue. They were trying to create essentially a Cease Fire so they could rebuild - nothing more. And it was not the Emperor attempting it, but the military commanders.

The army was prepared to fight to the last man. As evidence, please note that members of the army staged a coup because they found out that the emperor was going to surrender. They were willing to rise up against their God-on-Earth because they wanted to keep fighting. Unheard of! But yet, these officers who swore to die on their emperors word turned against him and captured the palace because they didn't want to surrender. So anyone saying they'd peacefully surrender without a massive blood bath need only look at what happened in the palace the night before the Emperor's broadcast, and what happened in Okinawa.

In the battle of Okinawa, 225,000 died on both sides. Had the war gone on, you could easily multiply that number by 20, and the survivors would have no industry or food of any sort. That the bombs are horrible is without question. But the long drawn out seige which was the alternative would have been far worse for both sides.

What's truly sad is that all the little countries of the world are trying to get these weapons, just so they can brag and pretend it's cool. I would like to see one test in a deep desert every 25 years, and require every world leader and rising leader to watch. Have them all build a city, pouring money and time into it, and let them watch as it's all wiped out in a second. Let them take the realization that pursuing such bombs makes them subject to retaliation with the same things, and that populated cities are far more valuable.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

With what, pray, could Japan have rebuilt? Japan is an island--it did not have the logistic capability to sustain a new war.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

The free market would have found a way. They had a demand, someone would be there with the supply. Japan always had to primarily rely on outside resources to modernize and antagonized its neighbors in the process. Rebuilding their military would have been tough, but they would have found a way.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

A free market that apparently could magically run a blockade.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Yes because all blockades are magically 100% effective. ::rolls eyes::

[holzman.livejournal.com]

His Majesty the Emperor, mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice upon the peoples of all the belligerent powers, desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But so long as England and the United States insist upon unconditional surrender, the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on with all its strength for the honor and existence of the Motherland.

The Emperor was trying to end the war. Prince Konoe was nearly sent to the Soviet Union as a special Envoy, and only didn't go because he couldn't get there before Potsdam.

The coup attempt seems to contradict your assertion that the military was trying to arrange a cease fire masquerading as a surrender, rather than the Emperor seeking to negotiate a surrender.

What's truly sad is that all the little countries of the world are trying to get these weapons, just so they can brag and pretend it's cool.

What's truly sad is that you think it's about bragging rights and being cool and not a very, very close study of how the U.S. deals with Pakistan and North Korea as compared to, say, Iraq.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

As I said above, do you have documentation?

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

This is not controversial stuff; this is like asking if I've got documentation that Truman was once president. The whole negotiation debacle is in any reputable history text of that period; just look it up. Encyclopedia, even. (It's also on wikipedia, but I don't consider that a great source.)

The debate is not whether we could've accepted a surrender without arresting the Emperor; that's fact. The debate is whether or not the Japanese would have actually kept to their terms, without the bombs. If you think the Japanese would've fought to the last man despite Hirohito's opposition, the desire for peace on the war council and the assassination of two prime ministers in short order during that time when they began to talk about peace, then you're right to support the bombs. I happen to think you're wrong.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

Go to Wikipedia and look up "Surrender of Japan." Of particular interest will be the following quote:

His Majesty the Emperor, mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice upon the peoples of all the belligerent powers, desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But so long as England and the United States insist upon unconditional surrender, the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on with all its strength for the honor and existence of the Motherland.

The 139 footnotes and 17 texts cited at the end of the article are good for further reading.

[violinsontv.livejournal.com]

peachcat, I was an ESL teacher's aide once and had a 15-year-old in my class who'd lived in the Chernobyl area at the time. It was about 5-6 years later but she was not a well child; she missed school on almost a weekly basis because she just wasn't in good enough shape to go.

Never again, indeed.

[min0taur.livejournal.com]

A couple of years back, I had the chance to sing in church an old Byrds song that begins "I stand and knock at every door...", told from the viewpoint of the ghost of a child incinerated at Hiroshima. I almost didn't get all the way through it; though it's a simple tune, it's very hard to sing steadily.

I understand that the emergence of new and horrific weapons is almost impossible to prevent in time of war -- especially "total war," a particularly ferocious modern concept that targeted everything and everyone in the enemy's realm. When so many people are so driven by hate and fear (whether natural or propaganda-enhanced), they look around frantically for anything... *anything*... that will produce a decisive advantage; they usually don't realize (or care?) that they're calling up the same old monster again: A certain cultural momentum that animates the new thing like a golem, resulting in a virtual inevitability that the new thing will be used. Whatever we feel about the fact that this one *was* used, it has become a world possession; what we do with it now that it's an established force in human relations remains a litmus test of whether we have any business going to the stars.

[amazingadrian.livejournal.com]

I've seen pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki today. It's incredible. Huge huge city, glowing with lights of every color. Hell of a way to bounce back, if you ask me.

Come hell and high water, life marches on. So far we haven't seen such weapons used since then, and I would hope that we never will again, but the resilience of the Japanese people is testament to the fact that even nuclear wounds can heal if given time.

[batyatoon]

May such weapons never be used again.

Amen, amen, amen.

One Word

[urban-terrorist.livejournal.com]

Amen.

[capt-video.livejournal.com]

My father-in-law served in the U.S. Navy during WWII. He spent much of the war repairing planes on a small island in the South Pacific.

Shortly before his death, Pop saw a documentary about the Enola Gay, in which the narrator mentioned the refrigerated hold necessary for transporting the bomb. Pop casually remarked that he'd always wondered what that was for. When my husband asked what he meant, Pop explained that his unit had been ordered to install refrigeration units in three planes, but that no one knew why...

[sillyfox.livejournal.com]

My husband and I had the good fortune to visit Japan last year, a trip which included the Hiroshima Peace Park and Memorial Museum.

It is both a surprisingly beautiful and a terribly sobering place. Since my pictures say far more than words ever could, I offer a link here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/czarfox/2598249768/sizes/o/in/set-72157601981277581/).

The surrounding city is thriving, and oddly enough, if I would ever move to Japan, I'd want to live there.

[sillyfox.livejournal.com]

Let's try this again. This link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/czarfox/2598249768/in/set-72157601981277581) should work better.