Hiroshima

[filkertom]

Sixty-four years ago today, the US detonated an atomic bomb over the city of Hiroshima, Japan. a few days later, they dropped another over Nagasaki.

May such weapons never be used again.

Comments

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was horrible, and should Never happen again. The only thing good about it is that it ended a horrible war, and it took both bombs to do it.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

That's something that I think a lot of people don't think about, unfortunately. Yes it was a horrific event, but the President at the time had no good options. Send in ground troops and loose millions, or drop two bombs and lose hundreds and hundreds of thousands many of whom would be innocent lives no matter what. A literal catch 22 with no real way out.

It's things like that, that make me realize that I could never be President. I couldn't handle that kind of choice and I don't want that kind of power.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

Thank you for understanding that. Truman said he would feel badly about to his dying day, but he would feel worse about sending Allied troops into Japan and killing even more Japanese and our own people.

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

Actually, you are incorrect. Japan had already agreed to surrender. The sticking point was that the US wanted unconditional surrender and Japan wanted a guarantee that their emperor would not be treated as a war criminal. Keep in mind the Japanese viewed the emperor as directly descended from a god. Possibly the same as a god -- or as close as you get to it on Earth. And the Japanese agreed everybody who ran the war -- the prime ministers and so on -- could be held and tried as war criminals if desired. Just not the emperor.
We said no and preferred to blast their cities with atomic bombs instead, violating the rules of war (which we actually had also violated very badly with the earlier fire bombing of Tokyo). We killed a huge number of civilians, poisoned the living and the land, and then we decided we didn't want to try the emperor anyhow. Great. So *that* was worth it.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

So you have documentation?

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

They were negotiating, that much at least is documented. At this remove, it is hard to say if it was in good faith or not. Had a settlement been reached, it doesn't seem likely the Japanese could have done much, with just the Emperor--Japan was a wreck, and they had lost access to Chinese resources.

I am grateful that the plans to bomb Kyoto (and that was proposed, so far as I know) did not go forward.

[zibblsnrt.livejournal.com]

This; the casualty projections from Coronet and Olympic were horrifying, Eastern Front-like.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

"The only thing good about it is that it ended a horrible war, and it took both bombs to do it."

This is a popular and widely taught lie, but a lie nonetheless. Japan had been trying to negotiate a surrender well in advance of the bombing of Hiroshima. The war could have been ended without dropping a nuclear bomb or invading Japan if the U.S. had been willing to accept anything short of an unconditional surrender.

[shockwave77598.livejournal.com]

Sorry, but untrue. They were trying to create essentially a Cease Fire so they could rebuild - nothing more. And it was not the Emperor attempting it, but the military commanders.

The army was prepared to fight to the last man. As evidence, please note that members of the army staged a coup because they found out that the emperor was going to surrender. They were willing to rise up against their God-on-Earth because they wanted to keep fighting. Unheard of! But yet, these officers who swore to die on their emperors word turned against him and captured the palace because they didn't want to surrender. So anyone saying they'd peacefully surrender without a massive blood bath need only look at what happened in the palace the night before the Emperor's broadcast, and what happened in Okinawa.

In the battle of Okinawa, 225,000 died on both sides. Had the war gone on, you could easily multiply that number by 20, and the survivors would have no industry or food of any sort. That the bombs are horrible is without question. But the long drawn out seige which was the alternative would have been far worse for both sides.

What's truly sad is that all the little countries of the world are trying to get these weapons, just so they can brag and pretend it's cool. I would like to see one test in a deep desert every 25 years, and require every world leader and rising leader to watch. Have them all build a city, pouring money and time into it, and let them watch as it's all wiped out in a second. Let them take the realization that pursuing such bombs makes them subject to retaliation with the same things, and that populated cities are far more valuable.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

With what, pray, could Japan have rebuilt? Japan is an island--it did not have the logistic capability to sustain a new war.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

The free market would have found a way. They had a demand, someone would be there with the supply. Japan always had to primarily rely on outside resources to modernize and antagonized its neighbors in the process. Rebuilding their military would have been tough, but they would have found a way.

[randwolf.livejournal.com]

A free market that apparently could magically run a blockade.

[alverant.livejournal.com]

Yes because all blockades are magically 100% effective. ::rolls eyes::

[holzman.livejournal.com]

His Majesty the Emperor, mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice upon the peoples of all the belligerent powers, desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But so long as England and the United States insist upon unconditional surrender, the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on with all its strength for the honor and existence of the Motherland.

The Emperor was trying to end the war. Prince Konoe was nearly sent to the Soviet Union as a special Envoy, and only didn't go because he couldn't get there before Potsdam.

The coup attempt seems to contradict your assertion that the military was trying to arrange a cease fire masquerading as a surrender, rather than the Emperor seeking to negotiate a surrender.

What's truly sad is that all the little countries of the world are trying to get these weapons, just so they can brag and pretend it's cool.

What's truly sad is that you think it's about bragging rights and being cool and not a very, very close study of how the U.S. deals with Pakistan and North Korea as compared to, say, Iraq.

[pagawne.livejournal.com]

As I said above, do you have documentation?

[kkatowll.livejournal.com]

This is not controversial stuff; this is like asking if I've got documentation that Truman was once president. The whole negotiation debacle is in any reputable history text of that period; just look it up. Encyclopedia, even. (It's also on wikipedia, but I don't consider that a great source.)

The debate is not whether we could've accepted a surrender without arresting the Emperor; that's fact. The debate is whether or not the Japanese would have actually kept to their terms, without the bombs. If you think the Japanese would've fought to the last man despite Hirohito's opposition, the desire for peace on the war council and the assassination of two prime ministers in short order during that time when they began to talk about peace, then you're right to support the bombs. I happen to think you're wrong.

[holzman.livejournal.com]

Go to Wikipedia and look up "Surrender of Japan." Of particular interest will be the following quote:

His Majesty the Emperor, mindful of the fact that the present war daily brings greater evil and sacrifice upon the peoples of all the belligerent powers, desires from his heart that it may be quickly terminated. But so long as England and the United States insist upon unconditional surrender, the Japanese Empire has no alternative but to fight on with all its strength for the honor and existence of the Motherland.

The 139 footnotes and 17 texts cited at the end of the article are good for further reading.