Suck It Up -- It's A Tit

[filkertom]

... Maybe that didn't pop out right. But still.

This country has an unhealthy, ridiculous obsession with sex. Some see it as Teddibly Teddibly Harmful, to the point that even a flash of what turned out to be a covered nipple sent paroxysms of freak-out across the nation (most of which were by the vast profusion of self-appointed scolds; everybody else DVR'd and downloaded that clip like crazy). Others want every bit of stimulation and titillation they can find. I think the vast majority of us are somewhere in the middle: Yeah, sex is fantastic, but now and then somebody's gotta do the laundry.

I am a heterosexual male. I love looking at breasts, under most circumstances. But I'm no longer fourteen, y'know? And even if I was, it's not like a breast-feeding mom is offering her other breast, goin', "Hey, sailor, check it out." (I understand that there are guys who go to Lamaze classes for unwed mothers, cruising for a date: they have tangible proof that the girl puts out. I wish to FSM I was kidding.)

Fer cryin' out loud, all you need to do to see all the nekkid boobies you can possibly handle, har har, is to turn off Safe Search on Google.

If you are threatened, offended, disturbed, riveted, whatever, by the flash of a nipple, especially from a breastfeeding mother, something is not right and it's likely you. And if your concept of civilization can be threatened by it, maybe you should put the deck of cards away and start using bricks and mortar.

Comments

[moem]

Hiya... I like this posting. Mind if I subscribe?

[filkertom]

Not at all. :) You should know that this is really a cross-posting. I post here, but it then goes to LiveJournal, where I'm much more active.

[moem]

Ah, I do the same. But I thought it might be nice to get to know some people on here, too.

[trav13369.livejournal.com]

one- regarding the title of the post- LOST! LOL

two- the remark about guys going to LaMaze classes to pick up women reminds me of "Dogma" and Jay's remark about going to abortion clinics to do the same thing. Creepier, but yes this IS Jay I speak of LOL.

three- in four decades, I have seen prude and pervert, delicate and deviant, and the gamut that this country runs, regarding sexuality, is staggering. Sexuality is not a subject you can properly gauge. You can say something to one person, and be fine. Say it to another person (or another person overhears your comment to Person One, and they lose their damn minds.

[mockingbirdq.livejournal.com]

As a mom who breastfed my first child, and plans to breastfeed the one I am expecting, it's about time! I would love to see national protection for nursing moms.

I remember the days of breastfeeding in a car or worse, a public restroom because I didn't feel like I would be allowed to bf in various public places. I always hear claims that there are women who suppossedly whip their boobs out and bf their 5 year olds in public, but I've NEVER seen that. I have seen moms discretely nursing as the baby was in a sling carrier, or with a blanket covering the baby, and people still reacting rudely. That's when I usually make a point to smile at them or go over and comment about how great it is that they are nursing when needed.

The only two times I was asked to leave (once a store, once a fast food restaurant) I was completely covered with a nursing blanket, and all that showed were my son's little feet! But apparently someone had still complained because they could "tell" there was a baby under the blanket and even that is too much for some people. It's very sad to live in America sometimes...

[devospice.livejournal.com]

The law, at least in New Jersey (I thought this was a federal law but I could be wrong) is anywhere a woman is legally allowed to be she is legally allowed to breast feed. That includes restaurants and stores. If they kicked you out they broke the law. If you contact the LLL (I think?) about it they'll organize a "nurse in" at the place to protest and when 50 breast feeding moms show up they will quickly change their tune about it.

[robin-june.livejournal.com]

"Ooh, isn't it just shameful?! Underneath all their clothes, people walk around NAKED!!"

(And yeah, I actually read of someone somewhere saying that with a straight face . . .)

[kirylyn.livejournal.com]

ok, I love looking at breasts too but I wouldn't bitch if someone DID whip it out and started breastfeeding

methinks someone(s) were NOT bf as children so they're *jealous*

yet they want nekkid boobies to sell them stuff???

its like the anti-abortionists -- they just want the baby to be born; after that, they could care less what happens to it or the mother but don't "waste" gov't money to help them

am I missing something here or does that seem so contradictory?

[jmthane.livejournal.com]

*Something* is missing here, alright, but you're not missing it...

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Nope, you've got it. One of the most appalling hypocrisies of the pro-birth crowd is that they also tend to be against government-paid pre- and post-natal care for mother or child. They also don't think extenuating circumstances, like, oh, being raped, matter. And they always seem to act as if, because abortion is usually elective, the women want to abort -- not in a this-is-the-right-thing-to-do-for-me way, but a oopsie-well-take-care-of-this-so-I-can-have-some-more-fun way.

[bayushisan.livejournal.com]

Personally I do think there should be pre and post-natal assistance for people who need it. I just try to be consistent in the things I believe in.

Abortion is one of the issues I don't get into much because it tends to be one that people on both sides get emotional about.

[cscottd.livejournal.com]

One of the most appalling hypocrisies of the pro-birth crowd is that they also tend to be against government-paid pre- and post-natal care for mother or child.

Many of them also seem to be against just about anything that would actually reduce the need for abortions (sex education, birth control, etc).

It seems to me that if someone is really "pro-life" (rather than anti-sex/anti-woman), they would be in favour of just about anything that make abortion less necessary and they would be pushing for ways to make other (non-abortion) options more viable: improved pre/post-natal care (as you mentioned), adoption (including *gasp* gay couples), assistance for single mothers, etc.

[jannyblue.livejournal.com]

Add easily available birth control and COMPREHENSIVE and complete sexual education to that list.

Screw that "abstinence only" bullshit.

[judifilksign.livejournal.com]

I breastfed all three of my children, and for the most part, did not have problems with people harassing me about it. I did have a few incidents, but I stared them down back, or out-dignified the people who were crass enough to say anything.

Twelve years ago, I did once get asked to leave a Target store by a biddy working the changing rooms who objected to me using one of the changing stalls to nurse. "Go home and do that," she said, pounding on the door. "Other people need to use these stalls." (There was no line; in fact all the other changing stalls were empty.) She wouldn't let up, and Dino wouldn't settle down because of my discomfort. I buttoned up, left the stall, and went cruising for a manager, and told him of the situation. He led me back to the changing area, told me to go ahead and use the biggest room, put another worker on the floor, and pulled the biddy for a talking-to.

That incident gave me more confidence to nurse in public where and when I needed. Maybe having the law on their side will help more moms nurse. I knew plenty of moms who nursed that pumped milk not only for daycare, but for going out so they wouldn't have this issue.

I also think this is a "class" complaint. In general, you don't see poor folks upset about this, because bottle feeding isn't affordable, so they are totally understanding about it.

[sholamith.livejournal.com]

Bravo for the mature and sane response to public breastfeeding.

on a semi related tangent...One of the funniest stories I know related to bf comes from a visit I made to a women's room when at a restuarant. There was an African-American woman breastfeeding her baby in the lounge area of the restroom when another woman entered with a 3 or 4 year old boy. "mama", he said, "What's she doing with that baby?" The mother explained that the woman was feeding the baby some milk. The little boy responded, "She's a chocolate lady. Is she feeding the baby chocolate milk?" Everyone ther was laughing by then. The nursing mother was laughing so hard her nipple slipped out of the baby's mouth. When you consider the child's age it really was an intelligent question.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

... I love that. :)

[eoywin.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this post - I'm a breastfeeding mama who has nursed in public before.

[zellion.livejournal.com]

Yet another breastfeeding mother who is happy to see this post. Human milk for human babies!

My experiences with fandom and nursing have all been good so far. The guy from Fantasy Flight at GenCon didn't even blink when I sat down at the demo table next to my husband and started nursing.

[catnip13.livejournal.com]

I was half afraid to click on the comments for this post. Thanks everybody, for not making my fears real.

Babies need to eat. Covering up with a blanket isn't always possible or practical.

[dandelion-diva.livejournal.com]

Sam wouldn't stand for being covered up. I did a couple test runs at home, but it never worked. If I'd tried it in public, I'd have been showing a *lot* more that I did when I lifted up the side of my shirt. But, y'know, people who are pissy about this sort of thing don't *think* about that. 'Cause they're dinks.

[wingus.livejournal.com]

Good on 'em for this.

However, there's always gonna be people that are total boobs about this sort of thing.

[ladysmith.livejournal.com]

In the three+ years that I've been a breastfeeding mom, I've never once been harassed. From what I understand, I've been INCREDIBLY lucky.

I have, however, been targeted as a captive audience by a holy-roller who apparently wanted the two-point conversion. That was funny as hell.

[starcat-jewel.livejournal.com]

I just love the way the phrase "whip out a breast" always comes up in this context. I have NEVER seen a woman do that, and wonder how it would even be possible. Do men "whip out their dicks" at the urinal?

I have also never seen a nursing mother who didn't have baby and breast covered with a drape of some sort, so that you couldn't actually see anything. The hooraw about breastfeeding always reminds me of the fights my mother and I used to have about my messy room:

"I can't stand the way it looks in there!"
"Okay, I'll keep the door closed."
"But every time I walk by there, I'll know what it looks like inside, and I JUST CAN'T STAND IT!"

I think the biggest problem these people have is that they KNOW there's a tit under there somewhere, and THEY JUST CAN'T STAND IT!

[catnip13.livejournal.com]

With regards to covering with a blanket, I had a hard time with nursing and NEEDED to be able to see what I was doing to make sure that the baby was latched right. I COULDN'T cover up. And OH the hassles I got because of it ...

[jss]

> Do men "whip out their dicks" at the urinal?

It's been known to happen. See Bart's line in Blazing Saddles, "'Scuse me while I whip this out."

[hyrkanian.livejournal.com]

I am also extremely lucky that in the time I nursed my kids (14 mos for both) I never had a negative reaction or got asked to leave because of it. And for #3 due next month, I plan to nurse as long as he likes as well. I almost always nursed in a sling wherever I was, at home or in public.

But I've heard the horror stories, and they make me so angry. One of the best comebacks I've heard to a mom being told to cover up was, "If you don't like the sight of a baby eating, feel free to put a blanket over YOUR head."

Good to know that there will hopefully be one more state protecting mothers' and babies' rights, go Michigan! :)

[caligogreywings.livejournal.com]

There are adults who are disgusting to watch as they eat. I think we should cover them up too.

[elf]

From the article: "At its heart, it is sex discrimination to not allow women to do something that is natural to them in a place they have a right to be," Warren said.

No. It's not. Right conclusion; wrong explanation.

It's a children's health issue, not related to sex at all.

And insisting on hiding breastfeeding is a lot like insisting that tongues should never be visible in public because some people use them on genitals.

I LIKE that one ;-)

[capplor.livejournal.com]

But seriously, I was mainly reading down to the end to post a "me-too" comment just to up the number of counted Tom Smith -reading breastfeeders.

6 years continuous nursing, the worst I got was a "helpful hint" about using a blanket (kid didn't like; insert minor eye-roll)

Re: I LIKE that one ;-)

[elf]

Almost 7 years total, here. The only incident I remember was nursing younger daughter when she was almost two, at BayCon, and some man seated nearby whispered, "does she eat food yet?"

And I smiled (because hey, questions about my kid!) and said, "oh yes! She eats almost anything! Even vegetables, which her sister hates!" and went back to listening to the panel.

It was over half an hour later, after the panel was over, that I figured out he was probably trying to say, "isn't she too old for that?" and wasn't up to being that direct about it.

Re: I LIKE that one ;-)

[dandelion-diva.livejournal.com]

It's a good thing that didn't happen to me. Not 'cause I'd go off on him, but 'cause I had this bad habit of referring to solids as "people food". I just don't think that would have gone over well. *grin*

[druidsfire.livejournal.com]

It... never occurred to me that anyone /would/ get offended about a mother breastfeeding.

*sigh* The really sad thing here is not that it's taken this long to get it into legislation's processes (I know it's not law yet)... but that it has to actually go there simply because of some people who can't mind their own fucking business about something that in no way impacts on their life or health (kinda reminds me of the gay rights debate, come to think of it).

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

But don't you know all women are inherently eeeevviiiiiil??!!1!!!!!

Anyways, all of this seems to stem from the absolutely insane puritanical attitudes so many people here have about the human body. Breastfeeding is how babies are meant to be fed, what is the big deal? *sigh*

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

But don't you know all women are inherently eeeevviiiiiil??!!1!!!!!

And if I believed in a God, I'd thank Him every day for that. ;)

[peachtales.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, good point, that! Mwuahaha!!! *collapses in giggles*

[gardnerhill.livejournal.com]

But I thought evil was more profitable than good. Considering the difference in women's and men's salaries...

Here's the deal, moms. You can nurse your kids all you want in the restaurants -- just, stop changing your babies on the table, dammit, I'm trying to EAT.

[pyffe.livejournal.com]

Amen. I've been supported in my breastfeeding and was lucky enough to not have to deal with jerks.

The strangest thing was (to use a thread term) "whipping it out" in front of my father and feeding my girls. Turned out, he was fine with it, and so was I. ;->

[anjabeth.livejournal.com]

I was kind of a radical nurser - I figured anywhere I was allowed to be, that my son was allowed to be, and that food/drink was allowed to be, I was allowed to nurse. I wore nursing tops with cool little slits and panels, and had absolutely no problem asking people if they liked eating in the bathroom, or if they liked eating with a blanket over their heads, or if they thought that the Virgin Mary fed the baby Jesus Enfamil.
But I'm kind of obnoxious that way. :) My favorite stories all have to do with children coming up and asking what we were doing. :)

[jenrose]

Thank you!

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

I'm a heterosexual woman, and I am tremendously uncomfortable with strangers taking off their clothes in front of me in public places. What's under your shirt is none of my business. And having worked retail for several years, I was astounded by how many women would yank up their shirts and start breastfeeding in the store without asking "Would you mind if..." or, even better, "Is there someplace I can breastfeed?" in which case we would have been happy to set up a chair for them in a more private spot, as opposed to in front of the window facing the street. It may be natural, but I can think of lots of other natural (and healthy, and necessary) acts which aren't appropriate in public venues. If you want the people around you to be considerate of your lifestyle choices, you have to take theirs into consideration as well.

[elf]

Would you ask women who got out a bottle to feed babies in a more private spot?

Feeding children isn't a "lifestyle choice." Feeding a baby *healthy* food shouldn't be less publicly acceptable than feeding him a fourth-choice substitute. (Formula is 4th, not 2nd, on the WHO list of preferred infant foods.)

[vettecat.livejournal.com]

It is a lifestyle choice. It may be a healthy one, but it's still a choice, as would be vegetarianism, or veganism... or, on the flip side, smoking.

And the two are not at all comparable. There is no societal taboo against drinking from a bottle. There is a societal taboo against public nudity.

[elf]

Comparing breastfeeding to vegetarianism implies there's something odd or restrictive about breastfeeding--that it's not normal, not the default method to feed children.

Encouraging less healthy choices for children because some people are offended at the sight of body parts is something that this society needs to outgrow.

It's like saying smoking is okay, but chewing gum is not, because the smacking noise bothers some people, so people who were going to chew gum should take up smoking if they want to be in public.

There is a societal taboo against public nudity.

What's considered "nudity" changes over time. It used to include ankles. I maintain there is no more reason to restrict the sight of nipples in public than to restrict the sight of tongues--both are used in sexual activities, and both are also used in feeding.

There is no societal taboo against drinking from a bottle.

Not yet, no. Very few lactivists are interested in making bottle-fed kids' lives harder by showing open contempt for their parents' choices. It just confuses the kids, and often the parents didn't have good information when they made the choice in the first place, and it's not easy to change later.

[acelightning.livejournal.com]

[ladysoapmaker.livejournal.com]

One of the nice things about Ohio, is I can breastfeed where ever I want. I do try to be discreet as I know some people are not comfortable with seeing boobs but with a wiggly child who doesn't like their head cover...

One the other hand if I wanted to go to Kentucky say take all the kinder to The Newport Aquarium (about 1hr 15min drive) I would have to hide out someplace to nurse because it's indecent exposure.

I've been so disappointed I haven't been able to pull out my "I'll feed my child in the bathroom if you eat your dinner in there, too" for those boorish idiots who complain at the restaurants.

They are just breasts, they were designed to feed babies people. Get over it.

I hope Michigan does pass that law. We women need more support in the area of breastfeeding anyway. As a nation we don't nurse our kids long enough... I'll try not to get on my soap box.

[antinomic.livejournal.com]

Obviously a subject requiring more data for an informed debate. Where do I sign up for a government grant for my study? Imagine the energy source of the fantasies of all adolescents! We could power the world, albet stickily.

[dandelion-diva.livejournal.com]

Like I needed more proof that you purely rock (in the musical and non-musical sense of the word :).

[sciffy-circo.livejournal.com]

When I was pregnant, my mother insisted before the kid was born that I bottle feed the baby. Breastfeeding is weird, and primitive, and takes too long, and all that other nonsense. I asked WTF did people do before formula was invented? She insisted that technology gives us better food, with formula. I still insisted on breastfeeding.

Grandma insisted she "had no milk", and had to feed my mom goat's milk from a bottle, because mom was allergic to regular milk, and formula hadn't been invented yet. She also insisted she'd only gained 15 pounds while pregnant, and lost it all immediately. Yeah, none of that sounds believable today, but if it were true, might explain some of my mom's behavior!

My dad's mom? Oh yeah, of course she breastfed her kids. It was Switzerland, after all, with my dad born in 1939. She died before I was even pregnant, but I remember her mentioning it when she visited us once, saw the neighbor's baby, and she thought Americans insisting on formula was so strange. She said even if it had been invented when she'd had kids, there's nothing like a good healthy parent to produce good healthy kids, and she was VERY healthy! God put breasts there for a reason! Ironically, she died of breast cancer at age 91.

My son? Didn't care either way. Great kid, all around. My daughter? That kid KNEW when I was around. I tried bottle feeding. Nope, wouldn't do it. Pumped breastmilk in a bottle? Nope, still wouldn't do it. HAD to be Mommy, and only Mommy, and nothing else would do. Bottle wasn't the same. She would SCREAM like somebody was trying to kill her or something, and here's my mom, wondering why the kid was refusing a bottle, and me, knowing what had to be done. There were a few times when I wondered if I should duck into a changing room or a bathroom, and the bathroom always won over. After all, where are you going to dump a diaper in a dressing room?

My mom was amazed by my son actually being on a regular feeding schedule, and the lack of mess, and the distinct smell and easier cleanup of the diaper doo-doo. My friends were amazed at how I could hold a conversation, throw a blankie over, continue the conversation, and when I put my sleeping son down, they'd say, "Damn, I didn't even realize you were feeding him till you took him out from under there to put him to bed!" I could go to the mall with mom, tell her when the baby would want to be fed, hide in a booth in a casual restaurant, and within minutes, the baby would be asleep, and it would be my turn to eat. My mom was amazed that I could predict it, and it turned out to be not so bad after all.

My daughter? Ear infections made EVERYTHING painful. Son refused a pacifier, daughter needed one. I broke her of it as soon as possible, because I frigging HATE seeing kids walking and running and talking with those damned things still hanging in their mouths! And at age 2-5 too!

The weirdest? I was at the library with a blankie, nursing my daughter. A senior lady came up and said, "Oh, what a sweet sleeping little baby. Can I hold her?" I said, "Um, she's not sleeping." She said, "Oh, it's okay. I have 3 grandchildren. I promise I won't wake her." I said again, "Um... she's NOT sleeping!" Jeez, really, who is the more creepy one here? I saw the look of realization come to her face on just what was going on under the blanket, and sheer horror at the OMG, she's doing THAT!!! Yes, I just told you, without spelling it out, though I was starting to wonder if I needed to.

Hey, creepy person, you're in a library! Maybe you should read up on the subject!